"being able to be outdoors almost every day."

Funny, this is why I love the PNW and dislike Phoenix.

We all have different tolerances, I guess.

I guess it's all in what you're used to, we spent a week in Tucson Az. it was December and in the mid 70's. The variety of Cactus I saw was amazing, would have loved to go back to see the desert in bloom. As to temperature, some of us took a dip in the pool, the natives thought, crazy Canadians, don't they know it's winter, and we couldn't understand why they were all sitting around in their woolies.
I have very fond memories of Tucson, the food was great, a restaurant called the O.K. Corral had mesquite broiled steaks, absolutely delicious. One the items on the menu: Big O.K. approx 30 ozs. $8.95 and if you could eat it all you got it free. This was back in 1977.
The other thing that stands out in my memory, the two pest control outfits we saw while driving around, one was made up of antique cars, and the other had Beetlebugs with ears and tails. Dry climate lots of pests I guess. Loved Tucson, but I know I couldn't take their summers.

A......

It's a bit cold for me as well, but whatever, I can take it as long as I can choose when to be outside most of the time. The misconception is that only a few plants can take it. Sure there are some limitations but we can grow a huge number of plants.

If I had a garden in Spokane with free-draining soil, I'd create an elaborate cactus and succulent garden. There are all kinds of cool plants native to the intermountain region that ought to thrive in a garden like that.

I was born and grew up in Tucson, of course dined at the OK Corral as a youngster and remember the bug cars. I was born in 1960 and remember the lush oasis before the idiot developers concreted all the washes and depleted the water table and turned Tucson into a wasteland. I remember the completely intoxicating fragrance of citrus orchards in the evening, the smell of mesquite rising from the monsoons, the olives and oleanders, and the native green where there were dips in the land, and the mulberries. Then I saw it shrivel and die. The summers were unbearably hot. I moved to Oregon in 1984 for the green and water, and should have moved farther north, Canada / WA border, because the summers here are getting too long dry and burning hot.

A lot of variety will grow here provided it gets watered well in the summer. I love it here! I wish ppl wouldn't cut down the trees. It was far more beautiful in 1984 than it is now. Then there were lots of grand estates where folks gardened and let their trees get majestic, and there were still undisturbed forests. At least I've seen beauty in my life. I'm never coming back to this planet. People here are brutal, cruel, have no respect for living things and hack God's creation down right and left. At least most ppl on these gardening forums plant and want to create haven spaces. I live with gross murderous destruction all around me and it hurts so much I can't wait to get off the planet.

Hi cascadians, if my memory serves me right, at the museum in Tucson we looked at scenes of what the desert used to be like and there was a plan to return it back to it's original state. Did that ever come to be? We were in Tucson when Kenny Rogers was filming 'The Gambler', actually watched them shoot a couple of scenes at Old Tucson.
The developers are screwing up our area too, that almighty dollar, that's all they care about, the water table is getting low, and the Cedars are dying in great numbers.

A......

We are all hobbits that live in the side of the hill with hairy feet like Bigfoot.
Duane

Hopefully some of us got to be a little taller.

Giving the Herman's Hermits theory a boost: They played Seattle and Portland in July, 1967.

I think the most common misconception "outsiders" have about the Northwest is the amount of rain we get. Many believe we all have webbed feet from continual downpours :-) While there ARE areas that do get copious amounts of rainfall (portions of the Olympic rainforest), much of the Puget Sound basin is relatively dry in comparison. Last year's record breaking rains aside, average total annual rainfall for the Seattle area is quoted at 36", far less than many other parts of the country. And even those that have lived here for a while can't seem to get their head around the notion that this is a recurring summer drought area.

So there's a reason for all those wilted and stunted shade trees and burned up lawns you see all over the place here in August?

Please do not tell the world that the rain really is not that bad. We are soon to be transplants and have found the weather to be very nice. Some rain, some clouds and some sun. Yes, rain for periods of time and some cold weather, but it is overblown.

What I really find disturbing is to hear the comment about "apolozing" from being from California. We too are leaving California for the better life in the NW and better weather (IMHO) of Western Washington. We have lived with the heat and the sun for over 50 years and we look forward to our new home and will not look back.

The rain isn't just not that bad, it's actually deficient - if you figure an inch per week being the minimum, the annual total in places like Seattle doesn't even make the minimum. And even if it averaged double the annual minimum (based on one inch per week), it's concentrated in the winter dormant season.

bboy, you said it! Not ENOUGH rain, and not distributed best, and certainly not enough when we really need it, in Spring and Summer. Exactly!

Have to start watering tomorrow. Hopefully it really will rain as forecast this weekend.

Does bboy stand for Big Boy?

I don't eat enough hamburgers to be called that. I used to be Ron B but after I got tired of this and left for awhile, the came back they couldn't get their system to accept my old information so I re-registered with a new handle.

robert.p:
I was not apologizing for being from California. I was teasing. I'm actually proud of it, there's not many Native Californians. It's kind of a joke around here, "Oh no, not another Californian." Be prepared to take a little flak for being from, "California," When you move here. Most of it we received was all in good fun, but it does happen occasionally. There is a major exodus of us leaving California. A lot of us are ending up in the Pac NW.

Our CA relatives expect all of us to move back with our tail between our legs too. The Portland Gang has been going strong for 6 years, and we're going on our 3rd on the Olympic Peninsula. After the winter we just had, I think you could say we're hardy enough to last. (Dec. Windstorm, no power for 8 days!) When you move here you will never look back. Good Luck. WELCOME to Washington!

Incidentally, my mother saw Herman's Hermits back in the day in San Francisco. She saw all the cool shows at the Fillmore and the Avalon Ballroom. She has a great collection of the old vintage concert posters. Her favorite was Jefferson Airplane - nobody could touch them live she always says.

PS: New York City gets more rainfall anually than Seattle.

Country is split into a humid East and an arid West. Much of the East has higher rainfall than we do, with much of it falling in summer. A late friend went back to Chicago to visit family one summer and they had been averaging an inch per week of rain since May. Florida has the reverse precipitation curve of Seattle, with peak rainfall in the middle of summer and least precipitation in mid-winter.

Herman's Hermits did the tune "Don't Go Out in The Rain You're Gonna Melt".
So maybe Noone really *didn't* understand the PNW.

I once found a website that allowed you to scroll your mouse over any part of Western Washington and the annual rainfall would be indicated on screen and would change accordingly. Any one know of this site?, I can't find it.

And plants adapted to our unique pattern of rainfall are easy to find, both native and not.

I checked with a weatherman and he has confirmed that this winter has been VERY gloomy. There have been 198 hours of sunshine in Vancouver, BC November 1st to March 1st. It's not hard to understand why people from sunnier climes have a hard time transplanting here.

Supposedly global warming is going to result in darker springs (and hotter summers) here.

pacnwgrdngirl:
Thanks for the info and for the Welcome. Most people look at me in a strange way when they learn that we have already purchased a home and will be moving close to Portland. I return the look with a smile as I know the real secret but do not want to tell anyone. We researched for three years anywhere in the world where we want to live and it kept coming back the Pacific NW.

We are counting the minutes......

Did you check out New Zealand? One of my favorite places in the world...

I have not been to New Zealand. As close as I got in that direction was the Tahitian Islands but understand that land is beautiful and friendly people. It would not be in the running as I would get "island fever". I think I found my new home and just need to get there. =)

I'm native to WA...moved off to TX in the 70's and didn't think I'd ever give up the sun belt & return here, but I did in '86. Both Dallas & Houston have higher annual rainfall than the PNW...it's just that we spend months getting most of our rain, while they get their's quickly & often during big storms (love the thunderstorms there), then it goes back to being sunny.

I visited Tucson 2 weeks ago. While I tried to appreciate the beauty of the stark mountains and the "interesting" landscape of cacti & scrubby brush, the lack of true green colors and the noticeable absence of GRASS...and the butt-ugly rocky/dusty/sandy "soil" made me happy to fly back out of there (during a big dust storm). It will not be a retirement choice for me!

I once read that New Zealand, Great Britain & the PNW were the 3 most ideal gardening places on earth. I think I'm sticking to our corner of the world.

I think that some of us have a natural climate that has nothing to do with where we grew up. I spent nearly all of my first 35 years in NE Oklahoma (hot dry summers, freezing winters, wonderful autumns). Relatives from back east wanted to know about Indian attacks (idiots). As soon as I moved to Eugene I knew that I was coming home. Until my first spring there I thought that "perfumed air" was a poetic fancy.

Now I'm further north, out of the winter inversions (smells like Weyerhauser), and getting ready to put in my first garden ever next year. I kinda miss the clear, crackling fall air in Oklahoma, but I never want to suffer through another summer there.

What does noone know, anyhow? She lives in a pretty how town with anyone, though I think he's dead now. The bells would drive anyone crazy.

Anne near Poulsbo

The problem with the weather here for me isn't the annual rainfall, it is how it falls. Day after day, week after week of gray skies and light rain. The ground is soggy and wet for months. It is sunny during the work week and raining on weekends. No question that August and September could use more rain but there is far too much in May and June.

When I lived in Phoenix, I didn't even have air conditioning in my car.

Your body acclimates to different climates. My father moved to Palm Springs after over 60 years in the Portland area and because he moved in the fall, by summer he thought it was cold when he visited up here.

It is very hot if you visit the desert during the summer and you live in a cooler climate and it gives people the idea that it isn't liveable but it certainly is.

Anyone who visits Tucson should go to the Arizona Sonora Desert Museum, which is out by Old Tucson movie set. It is a zoo and botanical garden of native plants and animals and it amazing. In Phoenix, one should visit the Desert Botanical Garden, right now is an excellent time as the wildflowers and cacti are blooming through May.

The desert requires close up viewing, you only see brown from a car. Up close there are many flowers and much wildlife. The desert is not dead. There are more birds than we have here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Desert Museum

I second that, the Arizona Sonora Desert Museum is awesome, Cheetahs were majestic, didn't get to close to the rattlesnake exhibit though. I'm not really great with any kind of snake, O.K. with garter snakes as long as I see them first, otherwise, DH is helping me down from the nearest tree, LOL.
I enjoyed seeing Cacti in their natural setting, saw lots of Jack Rabbits and one Roadrunner on the side of the road, it didn't look to well, probably hit by a car, poor thing. When we were there we also went to the caves, apparently the temp. stays around 70 in them all year round. Absolutely loved Tucson, the air was so clean.
By the way, IMO you haven't seen a hat until you've seen an Arizona Stetson. Now that's a hat!!!

A......

I'm as far west as you can get without falling into the ocean and guess what it's raining again, I'm sure it's 70 degrees in Portalnd again. There are so many microclimates just in our county that it could be fogged-in in one town and 10 miles south or north it's sunny, raining or hailing. We're great sprinters when we see a break in the clouds we run outside real fast and run around the yard pulling weeds, planting (you can do that all year here), pruning, mowing and then run back in when the rain gets you too wet to do anything more, we do that ever 10 minutes.
Stay dry,
Kathy

It is not 70* in Portland!

I don't think it's so much what you're used to, but what feels right. Because I grew up in Southern California (through no fault of my own [g]), and I hated that climate with a purple passion. Santa Anas are a creation of the devil, among other things. I also lived in the Midwest for six years (Indiana and Ohio) as an adult, and I hated that climate with a purple passion as well. I liked some of the things that climate produced -- the woodland wildflowers and the incredible autumn foliage, but the cold dry winters and hot humid summers were simply miserable. I like to be able to step outside and not sweat until I start exercising, thank you (which is also why I don't visit my mother in Texas between Easter and Halloween).

I lived in Eugene for several years in between California and the Midwest, and I adored it there. When I finally managed to make my way back to the Northwest for good 14 years ago, I cried driving over Snoqualmie Pass, I was so relieved. I should have been singing John Denver's Rocky Mountain High, I swear ("coming home to a place I'd never been before").

I've lived in other places where the climate was enh for me, but no place that I've absolutely loved/craved/shriveled without than here.

Some folks are people people, and place means little or nothing to them. I, I suspect like most gardeners, am very much a place person.

I am just devoutly grateful that not everyone is attracted to the same place, although around here it sure seems like it sometimes.

All that said, we *are* having entirely too gray a spring so far this year [sigh].

And we are having entirely too many people coming here. Not everyone may be attracted here, but it's looking like they are. Meanwhile, the water supply is expected to dry up as Cascade snowpacks disappear with the onset of global warming.

Start planting cactus and manzanita. (Both are actually native here already).

There sure have been a lot of people coming here. I was shocked when I heard how much Bend has grown. It has been a long time since I've been there and I guess other areas around there are growing a lot too. I have fond memories of being the only campers at various Cascade lakes many times in my childhood and young adulthood and being able to leave our campsite set up when we went out on the lake or hiking, with no worries of theft.
Now there's talk of businesses lining the freeways from Eugene to Seattle in the future. Hopefully that was wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me.
There are people who come here and can't stand the winters, though and there are some natives who are tired of the winters here and leave too, but much less than come in I think.

You can tell there's too many ppl moving here by the land and home prices. Gone insane! Search rmls.com, lots of fixers on .11 acre (tiny city lot) for over 1/2 Million $$$s. Greed has run rampant and everybody is hoping some rich naive Californian will come buy their 1400 sqft ranch for $600,000. The sad thing looking through the listings is that most landscaping is non-existant or anemic. Ppl used to garden and plant more. Housing around Portland is now un-affordable to the average Joe and Jane.

Actually I would say I see more hobby gardens than I used to. I've lived here for over 40 years. But, yes, fully gardened places are not very frequent. Yesterday I walked from Edmonds to Lynnwood and back and may have not seen a single one. 60% of Seattle houses are rentals, if it's the same out here that would explain quite a bit. Many places sure look like it, with minimal upkeep and multiple vehicles parked out front.

But many others have painted, attractive houses with parking lot yards, junk or other incongruent settings - showing that quite a few simply do not, in fact, care about the yard.

With all the new residents moving in, perhaps it's time to think about relocating to a place where "Noone" wants to live. I'm thinking Noone'sville, Iowa - maybe a commune for committed gardeners.

Yeah, "parking lot yards" -- so odd, with the price of land/house going so high, you'd think more pride of ownership would show, and more ppl would want to be outside beautifying their oasis. Does nobody remember their home is their castle? What a joy to work with the earth and grow monuments to love, beauty and stewardship. It boggles my mind that anybody with a house and yard would NOT want to be out in it, or if pouring rain, indoors looking at a catalog of tree bush flower groundcover species, and planning ...

Noonesville sounds good. I know for sure I'm on the wrong planet. Just confirmed I have Asperger's and there's a forum for that called Wrong Planet, more proof my tree / garden loving brain is wired differently and I don't belong on earth. How God created it yes, but what it has become since man wiped out natural beauty, NO!

I remember when I first moved to Portland, spring was a riot, a dazzling explosion of color, with mature tree rhodies everywhere, and sculpted azaleas, huge camellias, bulbs popping everywhere, hollies still in berry, forests and jungles of healthy huge trees leafing out.

Every year those disappear, more and more barren, so extremely sad, paradise lost. Not to mention the grand forests vanishing.

Progress, man, progress! I wonder why there is not much going on until I remember that 60% of occupancy being renters. Maybe the places with handsome houses and blah yards have landlords that want to keep the building up for re-sale value but don't care about the yard because they don't live there.

Then there's the idea that you don't want a nice ("involved") yard because it will turn off(!) prospective buyers. That goes back to lack of interest, of course, it being 'yard work' (outdoor version of 'house work') instead of an enjoyable past time.

At least during this time of the year there are trees and shrubs blooming almost everywhere you look, some places (like mine) quite a few of them. All the floral splendor out the window makes me think yet again I should plant more kinds that bloom at other times, to try and extend the mood through the year. After the spring frenzy subsides I'll probably forget about it again until next year.

Hello Ron. I was wondering where you were. Glad you're still here.
Rain is good, [with well drained soil]. If it doesn't rain in a week I feel I need to water the garden.
I lived in New Mexico, New Orleans, & Texas. Give me Rain gear & a warm vest for all year PNW gardening, it is way better in my world than skin cancer and heat exhaustion. It's what you're used to I guess.

Thanks for the gladness. At my place if it doesn't rain for a week it IS time to water, I could do it all day in summer.

This is one of my favorite funny posts, and I think you all will appreciate it. (I live in California.)

Here is a link that might be useful: A Californian's conception of the continental United States

I used to participate in the Organic forum. Every year, a woman from Long Island, NY would authoritatively advise people new to Seattle about plants for our "damp summers." Every year, I'd explain that we actually have less rainfall in inches than NY and that while we have short summers, they're normally rainless to the point that our native plants think there's a drought and complain bitterly. The next year she'd do it again.

It still happens....it's remarkable the impressions many who have never visited this area hold in their heads. Part of it is that many people have few realistic impressions of anywhere in this country other than their own little neck of the woods because they've never traveled there. When they DO travel, it's by plane and to a destination - DisneyWorld or Hawaii or Paris or Mexico. Whatever happened to road trips? I've visited nearly all the states west of the Mississippi by car and a few more farther east. What a great way to see the country and witness first hand what the topography, climate and the people are like.

The next time someone from elsewhere makes remarks about the Puget Sound area's damp, cool, overcast climate, maybe you should direct them to a recent survey which ranked Seattle first in the country as having an "ideal" summer climate. Portland was ranked in the number 2 position.

Well, there are stupid people everywhere, and people who manage to be stupid about everything!
Mind you the PNW is guilty for creating some of its own myths.

My parents had one close friend who was into gardening. I remember in the late 80s they took a big trip to the west coast after their son moved to San Francisco. I was just getting into gardening there and he said to me "David, you wouldn't believe the roses at Butchart Gardens. And do you know what, they told us they don't even have frosts in the winter." I was skeptical of that at the time, and consulted my trusty World Book encylopedia LOL.
Anyhow I can imagine the PNW once seeming remote - that's the reason the likes of David Lynch set Twin Peaks there - but I don't think it seems that way as much anymore in these internet connected times. it is after all the secondary silicon valley. (OTOH my Mom jokes that my brother who lives in Seattle was trying to move as far away as possible LOL)
I will say one thing that struck me driving south from Seattle to LA was that after the Willamette Valley, that highway _really_ clears out. In the middle of the day, headed south through southern Oregon, it was mostly logging trucks, some RV/campers, but really desolate. Very very little "just people in cars" traffic. In comparison the whole of the I95 corridor from Boston to Florida is busy all years, all days. Even in the less dense sections there are people on the move for whatever reason. In southern Virginia on 95 it's nothing at all to see New Jersey and NY license plates. I've been at a gas station near here and run into some kids from the Boston area driving to South Carolina to go to the beach. OTOH, it seems like for a Seattle area person to even drive to the Bay Area is rather rarer...and LA would be like driving to another country LOL. I don't think there's anything like the mass exodus to/from Florida which happens on the east coast. Just in my definitely middle-class neighborhood...in this county (most northeasterly in Maryland) but not even on the water...I know of a couple older families that winter in Florida.

David.....ever hear of planes?? We make a lot of 'em up here and the population finds them quite handy for traveling extended distances :-) Maybe the east coast should try them out!

Seriously, I've made the road trip to CA many times. It's boring as hell unless you take 101 and you also run the risk of snow and ice in the Siskyous if traveling anytime between November and March. And no one who doesn't live there and has to wants to drive through LA. What a nightmare! Seattle traffic is bad enough.

"Mind you the PNW is guilty for creating some of its own myths."

And we do that on purpose :-) More and more of the country seems to be finding its way to our little corner of the world. Enough is enough! Maybe if we keep telling them how primitive is up here and how awful our weather is, they'll stay away.
(as she types while sitting on the deck in the sun, comfortable in the mid 60's and enjoying the sunlight sparkling off the water on the beach below. Shhhhh! don't tell anyone!)

Yeah but I think these people going back and forth to Florida are bringing too much junk to take on a plane. This is the season to see them headed north, cars packed to the brim and/or pulling a trailer. It's different when you're merely visiting SoCal versus having a second home there. Yes, many people just going to Miami for a week fly there! You think YOUR drive south is boring...you should see southern Virginia to central Florida. Millions of square acres of totally flat sandy plains with pine trees. I thought the whole drive from Seattle to LA was gorgeous, the mountains of southern Oregon were smallish but picturesque. (I guess the weather didn't permit any distant views of Cascades, if they are sometimes possible. It was clearish yet with banks of fog and low clouds...like this)

(and, to my point, so little traffic anywhere on 95 would be a post-apocalyptic scenario!)

In any case I didn't mean it in a negative way...hope you didn't take it as such. I think on the east coast people accept that the porridge can be too hot or too cold, and migrating 2000-3000 miles a year is their way to deal with it. It seems more people in the PNW think their porridge is just right...it's certainly better in a lot of ways.

BTW the numbers don't lie, Seattle IS cloudy over the course of the year by US standards...and certainly by western US standards. However again i don't mean this in a negative way...it's much sunnier than London which people often think of as a climate conspecific. The first time I visited London when I was high school, the entire last week of June was rainy and drizzly every day. The sun might have come out for a couple hours on a couple days, at most. Not what happens in your summer climate, of course. The only large, populated area as cloudy as the PNW is the snowbelts of upstate NY...and so, yes I'd rather have your rain and drizzle than 8 feet of snow to clear from my driveway. (let's hope no outsider from there is lurking on your forum LOL)

I know you didn't mean it negatively and I was pulling your leg about the plane thing. There are a lot of snowbirds here also with second winter homes in Arizona and Palm Springs and I'm sure some of them RV there with as many of their worldly goods as they can cram in but it seems like just as many fly there in style to a completely outfitted second home.

I think many people who live in this area get used to the seasonal overcast. It never seems that bad to me and when the sun does come out - and we have been blessed with it this year - It is hard to imagine a more gorgeous and scenic location. My sister moved back here after 20+ years in Laguna Beach and now wonders why she moved south in the first place. The first time I was in London a good many years ago it was the last week of March and it never rained the entire time we were there! I recall it as almost balmy too, no heavy jackets for sure. Kinda spoiled me for future visits.....that fair weather was not often repeated :-)

I tell people from other parts of the country that it rains so much in Seattle that I have to put moss killer on my back and slug killer in the down spouts to keep them clear.
Hey, I'm doing my part!
Mike

LOL Mike, not far from the truth, One year DH and I picked 48 snails off our pink dogwood tree. I swear someone in the neighborhood was farming the little buggers for escargot and they got loose, we actually had them slithering across our windows at night, mowing down everything in their path, no tongue in cheek, not kidding. it was god awful.
Kind of reminded me of that Hitchcock movie 'The Birds', (we could have done with a few of them). We still have a big snail and slug problem but that year they could have made a horror movie here.

I've heard this area is currently experiencing the highest rate of growth in the entire country. Weather people were predicting 70s F. for the weekend, a normal Seattle summer is a 100 year drought in London - my front lawn already feels hard underneath.