One several feet tall has been near a west-facing wall in Seattle garden for years, it leaned over and has to be propped up - but this is liable to be due to it having become rootbound in a container prior to purchase, as is so often the case - rather than an inherent flaw of the kind of plant.

It's spotty, I have not visited it for some time and seen how spotty it is now - the friend who owns the property moved to California. It is certainly possible that it has gone down hill in recent years, along with Photinia x fraseri and P. glabra plantings in this area. (So far I have not noticed a big problem with P. davidiana and P. serratifolia. Time will tell, P. glabra seemed resistant at first but now I am seeing gauntness).

I am not sure the friend's toyon has ever fruited, in which case there would have never been a time when it was particularly colorful. Bolder P. serratifolia or, if similarly sized leaves are desired Arbutus unedo would probably be a better bet for most people.

This post was edited by bboy on Wed, Mar 6, 13 at 13:47

Thanks, bboy. I've read that toyon tend to have fungal and bacterial issues in coastal CA as well, so I'd imagine that humidity and air circulation also play a role (though probably not in the case of the one that I planted in September).

I hear you about the general photinia leaf spot issues. We had two taken out of our backyard after we bought our house and my neighbor has one that looks terrible. I also had to pull out a Sorbus sitchensis that came down with a really nasty case of blight last spring. The rose family can be a real pain sometimes.

I've never seen true Sorbus sitchensis established in cultivation here, maybe that's why. Lots of them in the wild, but none down here - other native species get sold and planted in its place.

Today I saw a Photinia serratifolia that had been heavily defoliated, presumably by leaf spot (the remaining leaves were not obviously spotty, at least when viewed from a moving car).

Had a Toyon I purchased in Sacramento in 1991. Hard freeze in November of the same year killed it off. The plant was obviously not well-established, also, the literature said it would be tender for this location. Italian buckthorn purchased at the same time/place didn't do much better.

Holly-leaf Osmanthus and Portugal laurel replaced those, and thrived. Osmanthus is still there, but the laurel did too much thriving.

Up here the 30 year winter was 1990. Before I knew what Italian buckthorn was there were a few around I would see, these died to the ground. Subsequent plantings are currently making interesting, attractive screens at Good Shepherd Center and at Greenlake PCC in Seattle. The variegated form can also be seen here and there, I had one by the front door for some years but eventually took it out.

Hollyleaf osmanthus stood out in this area during 1991 as being a non-heath family broad-leaved evergreen that didn't burn the previous winter. Since it has been around awhile and its progress is not interrupted by damage (or death) due to cold winters, some large examples are present here. The Seattle Arboretum had one determined to be over 22' tall when measured about 8 years ago; a private property elsewhere in town had a tree-shaped one, with a single trunk and elevated crown 20' high during the same period.

A seemingly preposterous age is claimed for an example of the white-variegated form moved from an old property some years ago and re-located near the entrance to the Portland classical Chinese garden. Unfortunately this specimen now appears to be fading away.

Portugal laurel is a weed in this ecosystem, seeding into undeveloped wooded lands near habitations and other sources of infestation.

A big weed, yes, but they sure do keep their tidy good looks all winter.

Actually have two Osmanthus. The first, horribly root-bound, did little the first two years. Planted another one 3 feet away and then they both grew quickly. Glad I didn't give up on the first one.

One of the best broad-leaved evergreen trees for this and similar climates - if you ignore the fact that it pops up on its own. Not as much as English laurel, but still too much. Some urban parks in particular are awash in ivy, holly, laurels etc.

I did some serious investigation of the native range for Toyon in advance of a plant hunting expedition last fall with Mike and Vor. It is found in the wild as far north as the Smith River drainage in extreme Southwest Oregon (although we didn't go there). A reputable Oregon nurseryman says that it occurs in the Lost Creek Lake area northeast of Medford, but I cannot verify that. Anyway, there is at least hope that a collection from the northern/wettest part of its range, may do better in the Northwest than an average nursery-bought specimen. I intend to find out.

Thanks, Ian. It would be great if you or another nursery owner could introduce a more humidity-tolerant variant.

I'm currently trying a 'Margarita's Joy' manzanita (from Las Pilitas) in a sloped, full-sun area at the bottom of my deck. Like toyon, it's a gamble. But these grow naturally on the Central CA coast, so it may do OK up here. It has some minor leaf spot, but seems semi-happy for now. The real test will probably be a wet May or June.

Today I'm thinking the Sorbus might have been S. aucuparia. This gets mistaken for the native species because it grows weedily here. Some specimens are quite scabby.

The native species are always shrubby, branching freely in multiple trunks just above the ground, and never have apical dominance. They are also confined to the mountains in nature.

The Sorbus was purchased from ForestFarm, and I would hope that they sold me the correct species.

They in turn depend on their suppliers to send them the true item, which doesn't always happen. If it was a Sitka mountain ash it should have had non-glossy leaves and a low habit.

No way that it was a Rowan. It was multi-stemmed, relatively low, and the greatest amount of growth was not on the main stem. (See attached pic.) I've seen numerous S. aucuparia and have a young S. americana in my backyard. These are small trees with upright form.

Too bad that ForestFarm stopped carrying S. sitchensis, as they're really difficult to find.

PS: I emailed the Chinese Garden to see what was up with the osmanthus by the front entrance, answer below from the horticulture manager:

"In 2009, we discovered Armillaria (fungal pathogen) in the soil/root
system of the large Osmanthus tree by the front gate. There is no known
"cure" for this. Since then, we have taken an integrated approach to the
management of the disease and are encouraged by the positive response
the tree has shown in the past few years."

Just found this thread after ordering some Toyon from Las Pilitas...anyone still there ? I've had good luck growing manzanitas over the past 2 years in NW Seattle as well as coffeeberry. Fremont silk tassel looked awful in winter (leaf spots) but looks amazing now and has easy tripled in size this year. I'm not super optimistic about the white and black sage that sprouted this year, though they are doing really well at the moment. Might need some winter protection. Also curious about the viability of coyote bush (Baccharis pilularis) up here, ordered some of those too.

Hi..I'm late to this thread too. Am considering Native Sorbus and Toyon. We had a Toyon in San Diego..never watered it. Grew to over 15 ft.

I have rocky red clay and low ph and as I am also discovering... very fast draining soil. (which all Manzanita and Toyon would require)

I planted a couple Forsythia and purple Cotinus which haven't grown in over 6 years. Last year I planted a Manzanita in the same area...it's taking off like a weed. So I'm going to continue to plant xeriscape on this hillside. Since Toyon grow with Manzanita..there ya go..fast draining soil a necessity! Arborist said not enough water is why the Cotunis and Forsythia aren't getting going..I am sparse with water.

Toyon seems as hard to find as a Native Mt Ash!! (been looking for a couple of years now)Damn it!! European Mt Ash are considered invasive!!