Grafting has the distinct advantage over own root propogation from commercial perspective of allowing propogation of larger numbers of plants per amount of budwood used. You can theoretically get one plant for each bud on the wood taken from the mother plant. When I strike my own cuttings, it is common to have four buds or more on the cutting that I use to produce one plant. In my experience, a grafted plant, if the rootstock is suitable to your area, most often will also mature and produce in a shorter amount of time. When I buy a grafted plant, it will most often grow bigger and produce more wood and blooms in it's first and second years. My own root plants that I propogate usually take four or more years before they can compete with a purchased two year old grafted plant. And, as Mad Gallica said, if you plant them deep as we do in the north, they will usually go own root as the years go by. Again, in my experience, it also depends to a large degree on the particular variety. Certain varieties are very difficult to propagate on their own roots. Then there are varieties that while fairly easy to propogate on their own roots, won't be as vigorous or produce as much wood and hence bloom as an plant grafted on a vigorous root stock. Some varieties that fall in to this later category in my experience would include Gloire de Dijon (Tea / Noisette ) , St. Swithun ( Austin ), Orange Ruffles and Break O'Day ( Brownell's ), and Pearlie Mae ( Buck ). Finally, there is the climate issue. Some varieties will do very well own root in moderate or warm climates, but will not have enough vigour to grow in the shorter growing season and harsher conditions of a colder zone ( 5 or lower ). So again, in my experience, grafted roses: if planted well, and acquired from a good producer, meaning that they are not virused, will always perform at least as well as own root. I grow both grafted and own root plants. I propogate many of my own plants for cultivars that do well own root. Some cultivars I grown grafted, simply because I know that the specific variety performs better grafted in my conditions. So, simply put, it will depend on the variety, growing conditions and size of own root that you purchase, band, 1 gallon, 2 gallon, etc. If you buy a 1 gallon or larger own root, of a variety that does well own root in the conditions that you are going to grow it in, then its all good. It will probably do just as well, just as quickly as a grafted bareroot. In my view, the own root, grafted debate is one of either personal preference, or bias. I'd challenge anyone to visit my garden and tell me which plants are grafted and which are own root without digging to look for bud unions. That's my two bits worth. Cheers, Rideau Rose Lad

Ani, leaves harbor pest eggs and disease spores. By removing the leaves you open the canes up so they can be sprayed with the Neem or a dormant oil spray. It really has nothing to do with hardiness or root growth, just the general health of the plant. Roses in our local climate start to drop their oldest leaves as a natural growth cycle. By removing the leaves, we're doing what nature is going to do for us anyway. The only spray I use in my garden is one round of Volck's Dormant Oil spray after I prune in January. When using any oil-based spray, the temperature has to be under 60F, including reflected heat coming off block walls, so it can be tough getting even one round sprayed. The dormant oil spray helps to suffocate eggs and spores and should only be sprayed when the roses have no leaves. Because I often have roses from other people's yards come through mine for raffles or trades, I'm also trying to keep a disease called San Jose Scale out of my garden. Some great nurseries to purchase roses from in the metro-Phoenix area are Berridges, 4600 block E Camelback, Bakers, 40th Str & Osborn and Harpers, Hayden, south of Thomas. These aren't the only nurseries, of course, but they're well-known for quality roses and knowledge of rose culture.

OK, I'll do as you say. No more water. It's supposed to rain soon, been going to do that for weeks now and then revised weather. Anyway, I'll clean up the mulch and give it back to the roses. Maybe I'll gently poke and see how deep the rhizomes are, I know I meant to just barely cover them, didn't want them showing above the surface. I can scrape some of the soil away if there is too much because I know I pointed them downhill toward the street. They are on the beginning of the slope of the terrace a little more level than down further where I'm putting in daylilies. I doubt they've been in long enough to do serious damage unless I planted them too deep. And they aren't going to bloom this year I don't think. I did consider that the first rain could wash some soil off the tops of them anyway since it's all new fill for new steps there and washes, will have to wait and see about that. I've got to ask about the daylilies, too, but will use that forum. Thanks again.

Dawn, I understand about your Mom. My Dad died when I was 16, so of course, that was tough. My husbands parents both died in their early 60's about 26 months apart, with the death of my husband's grandfather in between. My mother is still living and will turn 97 this July. After my DH retired from the Air Force, we moved back to that area so that we would be there to help out a bit, since my sister has always had to help my mother a lot. Well, we lived there almost 12 years and so did she. We were still young enough to work a few more years and needed to move to do that. Al took a job with the Boy Scouts and covered the three most NE counties in Oklahoma. After a couple of years, he was tired of never being home. I was working at the courthouse so he took a job there. I have not worked for several years but he continued to work until the end of February this year. I stay home but he still has a finger in lots of pies. Oklahoma has a program called "Drug Court" which gives people one last chance when they would otherwise would be going to the pen. He serves on that committee. When he leaves there today, he said he was going to the senior citizens center to help them with a vehicle purchase. He is on that committee also. He heads the male youth program at church. Retirement does not mean relaxing to him, just more time to do what he wants. Yes, when I first discovered the Oklahoma forum, you were covering plants. You don't need that extra stress this year so it is probably best to wait awhile to plant. Oh yes, the tomato challenge! I remember a lot of that down there, but I don't know too many people that garden up here. I have some small gardens around me but they are not too serious about them. One did plant a few toms and squash but that area now has a big building on it. The people behind me are gardeners but are week-enders so they have toms, onions, lettuce, and cucumbers most years. We normally get enough rain that it takes care of itself all summer. They pick it on weekends. A young couple moved in next to them a few years ago, but he is so rude that I can't stand to talk to him. I have tried a few times, but gave it up as a lost cause. Too bad, because he has a large pile of mulched timber in his yard and I know he can never use it all. However, a few years ago at a wedding I was chatting was our former senator and he "braggingly" told me that he tries to get his first tomato by the 4th of July. The chase was on. Every year I tell his wife to go home and tell Rick we are having our first tomato. Love to beat him. I had to laugh about the MANY tomato varities. Earlier this spring, my husband said that he thought by now I would have narrowed my choices and just planted two or three kinds. I hated to let him see me plant anymore seeds. LOL Then a couple of days ago, I said that I had all of these new seeds to try but already had so many planted. He said, "Well I would plant them anyway." He knows I will never find a place to plant all of them and I think he enjoys dropping off the remainder to the senior citizens. One year I had so many weird ones, like stuffers and such. Those people grew them in their flower beds and last year wanted to know if I had more of those. I know this is weird, because this is a paste tomato, but my favorite tasting tomato is Opalka. Everyone talks about planting them to use them for paste, but I am wondering just how many take that weird looking tomato to their table. Most of the winter I buy Roma in the store, but occasionally spring for a $3 box of small grapes. I don't like Roma and have no desire to grow them, but my husband thinks we should always plant them. I told him I would plant 2 in the garden and if he wanted anything else he would have to grow them in pots. He agreed. Can you believe it, with all of those other great choices. Actually Opalka is really his favorite also. This is the only location where I have grown it so I don't know what it is like elsewhere. I plan to take better care of my garden this year, so by the end of the year I may be sorry I planted so many. During our Air Force years, I didn't always have a garden so when I did I tried to plant everything. I have narrowed that down a lot and I don't try to do that. Some things I just must have tho. In the spring I need lettuce, broccoli, and sugar snap peas, and I usually plant a few onions and potatoes. The summer garden needs cucumbers, squash, okra, a few green beans and lots and lots of tomatoes and peppers. I always think I will plant a fall garden, but I am usually worn out by then. Besides you have to start when it's hot for some of those things. Guess I am too old and too lazy for that. I do enjoy growing things tho. I have a two new beans to try this year. One is Red Noodle yard long which I understand is really from the pea family instead of bean family, but I have never grown it. The other is called Insuk Wang Kong that a man sent me from Washington. It came from his Korean wife's family and didn't have a name. She just called it a king bean because of the size. Zeedman and "our Oklahoma macmex" named it Insuk Wang Kong. Insuk is her name and the other part is king bean, I think. Anyway, I saw a picture of the bean growing and I just had to get some to try. It is a climber and has red blossoms. I can't wait to try it. It produces the biggest shelled beans I have ever seen.