Like CMK, I too have had success growing Rudbeckia hirta cultivars via the winter sowing method, among them Cappucino, Cherry Brandy, Autumn Colors & Irish Eyes, as well as a number of others. I find recycled milk jugs to be more effective protection against the ravages of winter storms--ice, snow, & wind. Winter sown plants are much more robust than their nursery-grown counterparts--many of my seed-grown R. hirta cultivars have returned every year since they were first planted in 2010. Since I mulch heavily over corrugated cardboard, I'm assuming the plants return rather than self-seed.

Love Indian Summer, but I've never had the patience to let it reseed. I grow Goldsturm as well, in the less well tended "don't want to mess too much with it" part of the garden. A word of caution about Cherry Brandy, however. I bought these in six-packs from a very reliable local nursery, fully expecting the blooms to be that beautiful wine red color. While one or two of them turned out that way, most of the rest were brown--not the lovely, rich red brown of some blooms of Cherokee Sunset, but a dull, drab buff brown that pretty much blended seamlessly with the faded mulch underneath it. A few were gold with a hint of red brown toward the eye. Of course, when you buy them at 3-4 inches high or as seeds, there's no way to preselect for the color. I've since seen them for sale in gallon-size pots. Same problem. Some are gorgeous, others not so much. Kay

Thank you Carol, just wanted someone more experienced to look at it. appreciate it!

Have: Blackeye Susan, Petunia, and Cardinal vine. Want: Salvia coccinea.