Each region of the country is a little different.. From wasted amounts of dollars in north east, I can tell you, that HTs, floribundas, grandiflorias, etc.. just do not hack it year after year.. Sure with deeply buried grafts and some winter covering, they will last longer, but after trying dozens of these varieties, I found one that did OK in my zone and that was Sunset Celebration, that would typically have around 6 inches of cane left, it did very well for 4-5 years and wasnt a complete blackspot disaster as well. Granted I havnt tried every variety, but where I had them was basically in front of the house at the time, I just wanted lower bushes becuase the windows were not high there. No worries there as they never got above 4-5 feet max in any giving year. I tried alot of the popular ones, ala Oklohoma, Mr Lincoln, Double Delight, Sunset Celebration, Christinan Dior, I cant really remember all of them now, Oh I know I had a Queen Elizabeth in there as well. I tried alot more including stuff like Victorian Spice. But I couldnt picture not buying repeat flowering varieties at the time.. I pictured dozens of blooms throughout the season. I spend hundreds of dollars on these.. none of them lasted more than 4-5 years really. Then I discovered gardenweb, I also relized that my garden season is pretty short, mid june to late august. A OGR rose that blooms for 4-6 weeks can be a third of my season. Alot of these also are highly fragrant, BS resistand and hardy. I basically order 4-5 hardies now and a couple of moderns a year or remonont ones that I try to keep alive. Even though I had very good success with Austins in my zone 5a (close to 4b garden) , they hated my move to my new house, I lost alot of these for some reason.. even though I didnt lose a one of my OGR's the austins after transplant just shrivled and died on me, except for the hardiest varieties, they all appears to have survived in thier pots covered over winter, but I guess they just didnt like it. Bucks did nothing for me, I tried over a dozen of these that died as well.. The one caveat is I didnt try some of the hardiest ones like applejack or quiteness, basically becuase I had two dozen austins at the time , alot were already pink or pink blends and I didnt see room on adding these. I tried all of the blends that looked nice to my eye, and they all died, winter sunset, prarie sunrise, harvest, honeysweet... etc.. none of them made it here. Its up to you, but to me, plant where you live, if your willing to take the losses, plant what you like. But there are hundreds of different roses that are hardier than HT's that have great form and fragrance, including OGR's and some modern shrubs. Silverkelt

The holm oak just isn't very hardy, I wouldn't waste your time. Really a zn 8 tree if you take into account the fact that zn 8 areas can go down to 0F or even a bit lower. I tried a couple and they died. I you want to experiment with a European evergreen oak, the Quercus ilex (oops - meant Quercus suber!) seemed a little hardier to me, but still isn't hardy enough for NE PA. I had one get to 8' tall or so in Northern VA but it died. If we could get Lucombe oaks here they would be interesting to experiment with. This post was edited by davidrt28 on Wed, Sep 4, 13 at 15:18

This is an interesting subject I have spend a lot of time and energy on, and I really like hearing others opinon :-) I wish some of the large rose producers would give us their knowlege or that someone does a large scale test of rootstocks in differnt locations that last at least 6 years. Kordes, Meilland and others must have lots of experience in this, not to mention nurseries in US. There are some old tests (1940's and 50's) that lasted 7 years or so, with field grown roses where the grafted roses did much better than any ownroot. For Europe north of the Alps three roses as rootstock came out better than others: Laxa, multiflora and a few canina varieties. Personally I have grown and observed alba roses like Minette, Maiden's Blush, Felicite Parmentier both as grafted plants and grown from rooted cuttings. In most cases all the grafed ones are larger even after something like 30-50 years (I have only planted roses the last 10 years). They say a grafed rose live on average something like 5 years, but some varieties really grow old as grafted plants. Maiden's Blush and Felicite Parmentier does not sucker much, if at all. Most likely it is the canina understock that is the root of these plants.These varieties are well worth growing ownroot and have vigour and resilience enough to stand on their ownfeet almost any where. In the rosarium in my town they grow a lot of rugosas, many of them really don't need any help from canina roots, or any other. Still they often are produced as grafted plants. I think it was Fru Dagmar Hastrup that was bought and planted on canina roots and did fine on them for a long time. Something like 6 years later they dug the plants up, sawed of the rootstock that still was the main root on all plants. This was done as an experiment and in hope that the plant would not grow as tall. They got the desired result, about 50 cm (just under two feet) shorter. The plants looked just as good on canina roots as ownroot. What I find interesting here it the fact that these rugosas do very well ownroot and really have no problem with the climate in any way. It seams that the understock gives the plant extra growth and energy. I have noticed this with climbers too, New Dawn, Blaze and a few climbing hybrid teas. They grow taller no doubt, and often look healthier and more resilient than ownroot plants. Floribundas and hybrid teas are even more dependent on streangth from the rootstock, and mostly there are no contest at all between ownroot and grafted. Pots seam to be the exeption and with extra care some grow into fine plants. I have read that multiflora does better in pots than other rootstocks. I have not had the chance to test this out, but multiflora does very well in pots. One of the arguments of those who produce ownroot roses is that grafted roses is less costly and done with less laber. This is not true. There was a time when grafting roses was considered both more expensive and more work, but the end result was found better. Another argument is that ownroot plants often look better in the garden and often will grow more shapely. This is not true either, I state this with observations from both the south of France and Northern Europe. A very long time ago grafting of roses was done with different techniques (in the time of Gertrude Jekyll). I don't know of any roses that is many with any other method than "oculation" (I don't know if this is the right term in English): Where a tiny T-shaped cut is made on the root-neck of the rootstock and an eye from the disired rose is slided under the fresh bark in the T-shaped cut. The root-stock is slightly pulled up from the soil, for the neck of the root to be exposed. This gives the plants by far much the same shape as a rose grown on its own roots. The budding point is not easily detected and the plants are not more leggy than ownroots. I dare state that there is no difference is shape even when grown right next to an ownroot rose of the same variety. After making such a rant about this, I have to mention that I happily rot cuttings of almost any rose :-)

That's one of the things I dislike about all the grafted stock out there-this very conundrum. As odd as it may appear, I think you're close to right-on for planting depth. If it were me, I'd use nothing other than organic mulching materials on top of that soil. BTW, I fully understand why trees are grown this way......the perceived need to produce a consistent product from plant to plant, the desire to have a predictable outcome with the scions used. But these grafts are not helpful in terms of planting depth and we all know of some cases where graft incompatibility wreaks havoc on the tree long after installation. The 'Autumn Purple' cultivar of white ash comes to mind, many trees declining and dying out long after being planted. At least for native tree types, I sure would like to see more seed-grown stuff. We could still have our consistency via making careful seed harvests from known good genetics. Some degree of variation would be healthy, after all. +oM