blakrab: Thanks for the tip on the Japanese Raisin Tree. That does look intriguing! From checking on a couple of websites, it appears to be drought tolerant and somewhat tolerant of alkalinity although it looks like it may stay a little smaller than I'd prefer. I lived in Japan for a number of years and didn't notice this one. I'll check into it further. gardener365: Thanks for the tips on the Montezuma Cypress and the Shantung Maple. I had been considering the Shantung "Fire Dragon" but wasn't sure if it might stay pretty small. If anyone has gotten some good growth out of these down here in the Austin/San Antonio area, I'd love to hear their successes. Aesthetically, I am not as crazy about the cypress as a tree for the yard, although I like them near water. scotjute: Yes, I am sure you are right that the soil conditions I have will limit the ultimate height of any tree that I plant. I hope to compensate as much as I can early on by top-dressing with compost the first few years. However the reality of a tree trying to grow into that limestone base underneath will kick in. That is a great idea about getting a native Pecan. I wonder if nurseries carry them? I haven't done a lot of searching yet, but they do all seem to be focused on carrying grafted varieties that are good at producing nice nuts. In my case, I really just like the look of a Pecan tree and don't really care what it produces just that it grow vigorously. Do you have any ideas where I can find a decent sized native Pecan down here? Burr Oaks sure do sound like nice trees but I am wanting to steer away from another Oak as I already have a Red Oak and several Live Oaks. It's too bad about those Bigtooth Maples being so finicky, I guess I don't really want to roll the dice and have one not do well. I am not as keen on the cedars although if I was going to get one, I suppose a nice stately Deodar would look good. There is a large grove of 15-20' tall Blue Atlas Cedars planted at the Bass Pro shop on I-10 just NW of San Antonio that look less than totally happy. I am guessing it is just too hot here in the summer for them to do well. Too bad though, since I love to plant one of them! dricha: I have seen Chinkapin Oaks and do like them too, I had not heard of Sierra Red Oak. Does it look or have growth habits that are greatly different than the standard Red Oak? Thanks for the heads up on Fanicks, they seem to be highly regarded. I'll head out there and have a look. lou_midlothian_tx : Thanks for the info on the cypress, they do seem to grow pretty rapidly. I've read some of your posts on growing Shantung and Bigtooth Maples. Your soil at your previous local looked pretty tough from your photos too. What are your thoughts on the ultimate size on the Shantung? I know your posts indicated that your trees were doing well, what sort of growth rates did you get? Mexican Sycamore and a native Pecan still look like pretty good bets for me based on what I am hearing and my preferences. You all please let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks!

i have had several small potted JM's for 5 years. every summer they get scorched leaves due to sun and heat. even when i had them under the east facing porch with morning sun. JM's are usually slow growing. you may want to check out the Shantung/Fire Dragon maples over at Metro Maple or do a search for them here. Lou has a few of them, very nice specimens. i believe he's in z8 also. i'm not sure about the Weeping Redbug.

JJ I have the following to suggest: A. p. 'Beni otake' Otherwise known as 'Big Red Bamboo', this tree is treasured for its deep red, strap leaves. Spectacular spring color holds through summer and turns crimson-orange in fall. This is a vigorous tree providing good texture variation and rich color. 10' A.p. 'Cindy' 9-12' high. A new variety that is a medium sized tree. Large maroon leaves hold color well in the hot summer months. Color also holds well in deep shade. Moderate growing rate. Upright, rounded form. Fall color is crimson. A.p. 'Fireglow' This selection retains red all season while the actual tones of red do change. Spring leaves emerge in an array of bright rose colors then darken. Backlit in summer, the leaves flicker like campfire flames on a breezy evening. Fall brings on scarlet. Summer heat does not tend to burn 'Fireglow". It is an excellent choice for an upright red that does not get overly tall. A.p. 'Margaret Bee' An improvement on "Bloodgood" leaves are larger and richer in color. The dark purple color stay well in the hot summer sun. Does not tend to get leaf scorch like "Bloodgood". Crimson fall color. Creates an upright tree that reaches 13-20 ft at maturity. A.p. 'Moonfire' "Opalescent" is how the large almost black-red leaves of this strong upright- growing (12-15') tree have been described and they keep this deep color until they turn a bright crimosn in fall. A.p. 'Suminagashi' Reaching up and out, the branches form a vigorous, finely shaped tree. Deeply divided and deeply colored in a long lasting red, the large leaves add a beautiful contrast of color and texture to other specimens in your garden. Maroon turns crimson in autumn. 12' A.p. 'Trompenburg' It's something over 15'.Spring color is a fairly bright red, which in summer becomes a glossy black- or purple-red, a color which it holds well during the heat of summer. The most distinctive character of the cultivar is the rolled leaf lobes, which form long, narrow half-cylilnders, giving the leaf the appearance of a (you guessed it) dragon's paw. Fall color is crimson. Juvenile leaves may not show the rolled lobe effect for awhile. A.p. 'Tsukushigata' Bright sour-apple green veins and samaras (seeds) contrast with rich burgundy red leaves in one of those magical color combinations found only in nature. Fall color is purple-red with orange highlights. 15' A.p. 'Twombly's Red Sentinel' Bright sour-apple green veins and samaras (seeds) contrast with rich burgundy red leaves in one of those magical color combinations found only in nature. Fall color is purple-red with orange highlights. 10' A.p. 'Yezo nishiki' Large leaves display glorious colors through out the year. The reds are brighter and a touch of orange is stirred into fall's scarlet. This is a vigorous, sturdy, upright tree with good branching. It grows taller than wide to 15' Might I also suggest the addition of a second, smaller maple to contrast the first? A small green-dissected-leaf JM is a great foil for the red leaves of the main tree. The dissectum will have a completely different look and shape than the upright, and the fall colors of both will be enhanced. For a SMALL green dissectum I would suggest: A.p.d. 'Lemon Lime Lace' Beautiful pastel yellow and lime green new leaves in the spring, holding the contrasting colors all summer as young leaves emerge. The habit is weeping and it makes a very round mound if left unpruned and unstaked. Fall color is orange. 6' or A.p.d. 'Ellen' Growing 3 1/2 ft high in 10 years this desirable dissectum emerges in the spring with yellow green leaves and becomes a fresh green in the summer. Yellow fall color. or A.p.d. 'Flavascens' Unique in color. Yellow-green in spring and early summer. Becomes darker green as summer goes on. Fall color is spectacular with golden yellow and orange tones. All of these trees are available by mail order from Topiary Gardens in New York. www.topiary-gardens.com. Diana is wonderful to work with... Regards, K4

PJ - My bigtooth maple is still TINY but i expect it to grow several feet in its 2nd year hopefully. I didn't get much of fall color out of it last fall but the new summer growth was very nice. I'd imagine that in several years, I'd get a lot of red new growth during the summer that would be very noticeable. Graceunderpressure - it doesn't appear that shantung maples are that weedy if at all. I googled for every single info on the internet and nothing came up about it being weedy like red maples (or esp silver maple which is BAD). I understand about a lot of seedlings popping up everywhere but that's oak. Gotta live with them, I guess but it doesn't appear that shantung maple is that bad like others. There's nothing wrong with Fire Dragon. Go for it!