Carrie 18 --In zone 5 you should now be seeing a big decline in beetles, so Neem oil is of little use unless rampant defoliation continues for you. However, if you had a problem this season you may have a bigger one next summer. Fertilized females lay many eggs in grassy areas. These turn into grubs which feed on the turf roots and emerge next summer. Unfortunately there is no reliable eco-friendly treatment against these grubs. Milky spore disease and parasitic nematodes are used and available but results are slow and spotty. Scotts Grubex (or Bayer equivalent) is effective and reasonably benign, but the active ingredient, Imidacloprid, is quite toxic to some, esp bees and fish (but not earthworms). Generally bees would not be affected by lawn treatment unless, say, you treat stands of clover, wildflowers, etc. France banned Imidacloprid years ago, believing it caused bee colony collapse there. However, the problem seems to have been application to seeds, esp sunflower seeds, that lead to bee contact of the resulting (toxic) plant. Recent studies of our bee colony collapse has been intense but has not lead to any connection with this insecticide, but not to a definitive cause either. So if you see turf distress and find many grubs late this summer and fall you may need to act decisively, or battle them next summer. Here is a link that might be useful: Beetle info

Well I'm late to get back. I was trying to digest all the feedback, and the work week was busy. So... Unprofessional: thank you for the suggestions. When you mention flowing lines, do you mean a smoothly curving bed line, or transitioning conifer sizes, from tall, gradually to short, not tall short tall short? How exactly does one achieve smooth flow. Sorry if that sounds like a silly question. The 5 I have now are intermediate growers. Is the rule of thumb to put dwarfs next step down from them, or it doesn't matter as long as it fits in the space for as long as I want? SC77: thank you for the combination example. That's exactly the kind of tip I was looking for. Mike: wow, your post is what stumped me, in a good way. First, I had never read about garden design explained with the analogy of a water body. Your explanation makes it easier to visualize. Are the any books or websites I can refer to that demonstrates that principle preferably with plenty of illustrations? I will work on a drawing for the overall design and attach that for feedback. I have a rough idea, but not the complete picture. I thought I can start at the boundary and work my way in. Over the years, if I need less lawn space, I thought I can expand the beds. When you mentioned a tree with a trunk for the incurves, does it have to be a big tree, or maybe just bigger in size compared to what's in the bay, or just something stronger impact/bolder texture compared to what's in the bays/ out curves? My square footage is not very large so I feel afraid of placing something large up close. Is that just foolishness from inexperience? I was glad my general plan matched with what you recommended. I did plant those trees to hide the house, and the curve was getting wider there. I was afraid of making the lines too busy and squigley, so I thought the oval would give me a simple design with one smooth curve, and make the lawn minimum, but functional for badminton, croquet, etc. but I think you are encouraging me to add a few gentle curves to make it more interesting and add depth! Ken: No way is it going to be a fast project. Conifers are expensive for me, and starting a garden from nothing takes time and hard work. The planting appears flat to you because I started with the big trees first, and they'll be at the back even in places where the bed will be wider. The bed lines are not drawn yet. As for the triangle, refer to the picture in my first post. The 'Gold Drift', P. glauca 'Pendula', and P. pungens create a triangle. I was looking for help in placing smaller plants next to them that will be complimentary. How large, in terms of growth rate, do i pair with them, and that kind of determines how many plants I can fit into each triangle, before I add more out in front of those trees. 'Gold Drift' and the pungens are more then 8 feet apart, and I will not leave all that space empty. You and many others are advising me to go with what I like and then I can move them if I want. I don't want to move the larger trees (if they live, there's that still) but I can certainly play around with the smaller ones. No more conifer planting for me until Fall. For now planning, setting up watering, and finding out what lived. I did mail order some perennials though, for other parts of the yard.

Another one-- ...When you attend a professional meeting, and, instead of trading business cards with the other attendees, you talk gardening and composting, and get an offer of leaves from someone who has a great big oak tree in her yard! * Posted by: kdbern Georgia (My Page) on Sun, Feb 9, 03 at 21:54 I can't believe my luck today! I have spent 8 hours mulching and raking leaves to bring home from a friend?s house on a beautiful sunny day, then I find this link and have had the best time reading it. I had even asked my hubby today to pee on the compost and he said I was crazy! I feel like this was such a wonderful day, I can't think of any other way I would have liked to spend it and this definitely was the best way to end it. * Posted by: roselust z10, so cal (My Page) on Sun, Feb 9, 03 at 22:11 ...when you find yourself seated in a chair with a glass of chardonnay in one hand and using the other to hand-pick earthworms from your compost pile during a beautiful sunset, knowing life cant get any better. * Posted by: Okanagan z5-6 BC (My Page) on Mon, Feb 10, 03 at 15:32 Oh I'm glad I found this web site. I thought I was the only wacko who turned the compost for peace of mind, always curious to find out what is going on in there, scavenging compostables everywhere, including the clippings from haircuts and cat-combing, and the dirty dishwater. Now if I can reroute the greywater... A number of people IRL call me "the compost lady" ... but that is not going to distinguish me here, is it? :) ...when your favourite book is "Compost This Book". * Posted by Mountainsong z7b GA (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 11:51 I am going into withdrawal from the compost wacko thread! I tend to be way too serious, so when I first found the thread this fall, and sat there on Saturday mornings reading it and laughing out loud, my family was amazed! Now, stress from my job is reaching epic proportions, and I NEED to connect to other wackos! Where are you? (You know you're a compost wacko if you look for the thread on Saturday morning and are forlorn when you can't find it!) * Posted by: TXDana z8TX (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 12:57 I've been wondering where they were, too! Then I remembered that I consider myself a CW. A few days ago my husband and I drove to a friend of my husband's house. This was the first time I had been to his house and the first time I had met him. Normal people greet people with "hello, how are you?" type of comments. Not this compost wacko! He said "hello" to me, and I responded with "I wish I had brought a bucket so I could have taken some of your horse manure". My husband just sighed and shook his head. He really thinks I'm a nut. Did I help your withdrawal? * Posted by: Mountainsong z7b GA (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 13:54 Dana, thanks for your compassion! I'm going to seek further therapy by checking out the new worm farm to see if any of our 10 cocoons have hatched yet (yes, I counted them, but they were in a large yogurt container at the time, so that's not too weird, right?) Vermiculturists are kindred spirits! :0) * Posted by: Demeter z6 NJ (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 14:34 Alas, with a forum as active as this one, if a thread has not been posted to for more than a month and a half or so, it vanishes off the bottom of the list ... and the wacko threads are so popular that they rapidly reached the 100 post limit and then naturally passed into oblivion. Sooooo..... somebody start a new "You Know You're A Compost Wacko" thread! * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 16:05 ...you know you're a compost wacko when you're standing with a group of people who know you are a cw, except for one person and when that person sez something even remotely related to compost EVERYONE looks right at YOU! * Posted by: thorspippi z9 Sac CA (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 16:51 I'm not yet even a certified CW and they're already doing that.... simply because I'm now spinning & weaving my dog's hair! Therefore, I must be some kind of Generic Nature Wacko (GNW). Hey, he is a LONG HAIR german shepherd and he's 100 lbs... that's a LOT OF HAIR. My worms simply couldn't handle all that hair. * Posted by: zabby17 z5a Canada (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 22:50 ... when your dog gets excited if you pick up the kitchen compost bucket. (Not, alas, because she's particularly interested in recycling or gardening, but because she knows her nightly pee outing to the back yard happens when Zabby's ready to take the scraps out to the composter... [hey, I'm not going out there TWICE on one of these cold nights!]) * Posted by: Bostonian z6 MA (My Page) on Sun, Feb 8, 04 at 9:27 The women in the H.S. Cafeteria where I work save me the coffee grounds and veggie scraps. The maintenance men roam through the kitchen picking up the cardboard boxes and sometimes find my scraps and throw them out! Now the women are like no, that?s Kathy?s. Then they give me a look like ?We don?t understand you but we once again protected your trash" * Posted by: PaulNS NS zone 6a (My Page) on Sun, Feb 8, 04 at 10:56 It's late fall. You get on your jacket to go out and empty the compost bucket onto the pile and take its temperature. Then you reconsider and put on a warmer jacket and gloves, so that the experience will be leisurely instead of rushed. * Posted by: plumeria50 z9CA (My Page) on Sun, Feb 8, 04 at 12:43 ...you know you're a compost wacko when you have to wait for night fall to sneak into the front yard to dig a very big hole to put some gross, refrigerator dead stuff in...hoping the neighbors arent going to walk by any time soon. * Posted by: JCin_Los_Angeles z10, Sunset 22, (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 0:29 ...when your DH comes back from the car wash very embarrassed about the horse manure that had slipped out of the box on the way home from the stable. There were horse turds in plain sight and everyone saw them, and he can't see why we had to use HIS car. (Because he has a hatchback and we had to fit the bale of straw in there too.) He complains about having a compost wacko for a wife but doesn't complain at all about the fruits and vegetables! * Posted by: Clare z6 MO (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 10:44 ...when you feel like you've hit the jackpot upon seeing that someone abandoned a bale of straw on the K-Mart parking lot and you get to put it in your trunk and bring it home. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 11:43 Two things I did or plan on doing is; I over heard a woman that I know at church talk to a little girl about coming over to feed her horses. I asked, Hey, do you have any horse poop I can have?" She said, "Oh, do we, my husband would be very glad to get rid of some." She lives close by, so I just need my pick up truck and persuade my 18 year old son that he wants to help me, since we are paying for his first credit card boo boos. Also, when I take my 12 year old son to school a few times, I notice a bale of hay on the roadside in front of their house, I don't know if it is for the garbage man to take or what, but their garbage was out and the bale is still there. So I will check it out later to see if they pick up the bale of hay or straw. I was in my PJ's at the time, so I wasn't going to ring their door bell. Also, I go out in the dark or with my coat on over my PJ's and at night dump out shredded paper, etc. on certain areas of my yard that needs it. * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD/ professor dirt (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 12:05 ...you drive by three bale's of straw left over from construction (used as a silt block over the storm drains a year ago) sitting in the middle of Georgia Ave near Whites hardware and you lust for them and are just waiting for the right time to snatch them (before they wash INTO the repaired storm drains and cause a "construction repeat".) Perhaps tommorow. It all leads back to compost! * Posted by: maryann12 7 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 17:24 You know you are becoming a wacko?.. When your brother and his wife visit from out of state (they have a compost pile), you don't worry about how your house looks, you worry about how your compost pile looks. * Posted by: Harimad zone 7 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 11, 04 at 10:03 You know you're a compost wacko when... ... even though you detest coffee, you consider working at Starbucks for easy access to its trash. You know you're a compost wacko when... ... the weekly pound of coffee goes straight to the garden, never seeing the inside of your kitchen. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Wed, Feb 11, 04 at 11:02 ...you know you have become one, when you slyly walk over to check out your neighbor's garbage and her recycle bin. Bonanza! The blue bin is full of newspaper. I checked a dog food bag, hoping to see some newspaper waste from her big parrots. I didn't dare lift the lids to the other garbage cans. But I did rake up the leaves on her property next to mine where we share a mutual irrigation ditch plus all the wonderful rotting maple leaves in the ditch. I built a compost bin nearby with builder's block from my FIL's old milk house built in 1929. We have a bunch more to collect from eastern Idaho. Lined it with a some newspaper, then a wet phone book someone threw into our trash can next to our shop doors and also a bag full of apples! Must have been my eldest son or my hubby. I couldn't believe my find. My 12 year old saves the phone books for his BSA camp outs. Good to start a fire with LOL So I guess he missed out on this one. WE get extra phone books from our neighbors who passes them out in the fall. One thing my son did was have the nerve to take one of the blocks from my compost bin to place under his snowmobile trailer's tongue when he got back. I did go out later at night to get the dog food bag and some more newspaper. Then in the morning, I could have gotten more newspaper, but didn't dare. I think the recycle people would be disappointed. Now I'm just going to ask her if I can collect her used paper. The dog food bag was a bust. Oh, well. * Posted by: snowgardener z4 NY (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 04 at 14:35 ...you know you're a compost wacko when you make your kids bring home their banana peels, orange peels, apple cores, etc. from their school lunches. * Posted by: Mountainsong z7b GA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 04 at 22:26 ...you know you're a compost wacko when your 8-year-old daughter shows definite signs of indoctrination: upon arriving at Starbuck's, she hurries straight past the plate of amazing chocolate chunk cookies to the "Free Coffee Grounds" basket, and returns announcing gleefully: "There are 7 bags of coffee grounds. Seven!" ... when you're embarrassed that your neighbor returning home at 8:30 p.m. will catch you in the headlights, and see that you are dumping your latest Starbucks cache onto one of the front yard's lasagna beds in the pitch dark. You are not, however, embarrassed enough to stop your chore, and dump three more bags on the bed before calling it a night. * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD/professor dirt (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 04 at 23:04 ...you think about piles (bins/tumbler loads/whateva) you've had in the past and remember them fondly like some people remember baseball games they've attended or first (second or third) dates they've had. ialbtc * Posted by: TeresaInCAL 9 California ) on Fri, Feb 13, 04 at 17:04 Hey, I thought I was the only one who thought about getting a job at Starbucks, JUST for the coffee grounds...LOL I've also considered buying cheep coffee (on sale) JUST for the compost pile... * Posted by: Linda_8B (My Page) on Fri, Feb 13, 04 at 17:43 Ha! I actually considered a part-time job at a local grocery store, just for the compost materials. Later I found out that they're so strict about not giving out the veggie and fruit waste that any employee giving any away to customers or taking any home can be fired. The dumpsters are those large closed systems, so can't even raid them. What a world we live in! * Posted by: Storygardener 5/6 central oh (My Page) on Fri, Feb 13, 04 at 17:54 I guess I am a compost wacko too...yes, whenever I watch the cooking shows on TV I am just as interested in the scraps of veggies, peels , etc -as I am interested in the finished dish. * Posted by: Alfie_MD6 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 14, 04 at 8:00 ...you embarrass your sister-in-law by waiting until everyone is looking the other way and then whipping out the plastic bags you somehow always seem to have in your bookbag and packing up the amazing quantity of ordered, paid for, and uneaten food the playgroup that just went away left for the café to throw out. (Actually, she was quite understanding; it's just that her particular anti-waste thing is the amount of packaging everything comes in.) ...you ignore all of the plants at the twice-yearly plant swap just so that you can go talk to Professor Dirt about how he gets to compost for a living. * Posted by: Byron 4a/5b NH (My Page) on Sat, Feb 14, 04 at 14:16 Just spotted a new farm up the street (about 2 country miles) That now has chickens, sheep and cows The cow pile has about 3 pick up loads already :-) * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD/professor dirt (My Page) on Sun, Feb 15, 04 at 5:19 I miss my windrow turner, I all have now to turn my "big" piles is a farm tractor, and for the task at hand it's like using a shovel to sweep the side walk, it can do it but ......... How's that for being a compost wacko? * Posted by: catfromtex 9 - Sunny So Cal (My Page) on Sun, Feb 15, 04 at 11:50 ...you know you're a wacko when you've accepted a new job w/great $$ and benefits and the part you?re excited about is having access to the muck from your new employer's horse stables. * Posted by: maryslc z5-6 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 0:10 ...you REALLY know you're a compost wacko when a a co-worker says they haven't been able to bring themselves to spread a family members cremains.............and you eagerly offer to take care of it for them. * Posted by: squeeze z8 BC (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 0:40 they know you're wacky at the stable where you're picking up a truckload of horse biscuits, when they say "can you take this bale of moldy hay?" and you say "yes, PLEASE!!" - and they do look at you funny, when you say "thank you very much!" * Posted by: veilchen 5b s. Maine (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 8:02 That before you even saw this thread, you reminded yourself this morning to check the weather report on the computer before you log off, to see if there is going to be a thaw anytime soon so you can try to turn your compost pile. * Posted by: thorspippi z9 Sac CA (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 14:04 ...when your husband offers to start up a newspaper subscription because you've been bugging him to put his office papers in a separate box so you can shred it. (I told him NO that defeats the whole point!) * Posted by: cherylm z5ma (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 23:24 when you're accumulating a plastic storage boxful in the basement- coffee grounds, fruit and veg peels, a little shredded newspaper and a dab of old potting soil- no smell! and if it ever gets warm enough and melts some snow, i might get it to the real pile! * Posted by: plumeria50 z9CA (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 4:33 You know you're a compost wacko when you are eyeing the neighbors? pumpkins on display for Halloween and wondering how you are going to slyly get some of those pumpkins for your compost heap. Also, how you are going to pick up several on the curb before the garbage trucks come for them...without the neighbors seeing you. * Posted by: Harimad zone 7 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 11:09 If you're worried about the neighbors seeing you, you may still be wacko-in-training. When you don't care, then you're definitely a wacko. If your neighbors give it to you or put it in your pile instead of in the trash can, then you're a prophet (ie, wacko with following). * Posted by: organic_johnny z6b PA (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 11:57 When you send your teenage son out for leaf bags...(which my mom did to me...I'm a 2nd gen cw). * Posted by: PaulNS NS zone 6a (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 12:34 When you create a 4'x4'x4' pile of crab waste and sawdust compost in a hurry, not mixing the materials enough or using enough sawdust, so that your good intentions turn into a Raging Pile of Stink which drifts clear over to the neighbours' place and lies down heavily on them during a heat wave and they are good neighbours so they only mention it politely after putting up with it for three days and you do everything within your power to muffle the smell including shovelling garden soil on top and surrounding the pile with bales of straw, to no avail, and all the while you're secretly and gleefully gloating over the big pile of rot in your yard which, really, objectively speaking, any normal person would consider smells fascinating. * Posted by: Storygardener 5/6 central oh (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 12:52 ....when at the garden club meeting last night I took all the plant litter from the demonstration and put it in my coat pocket for my compost pile. * Posted by: Nelz z5b/6 NW PA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 19, 04 at 23:49 Your wife mentions horse and pony for herself and daughter, and all you can picture is a pitchfork, a wheel barrow, and a dirty stall, and you smile LARGE!! * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Fri, Feb 20, 04 at 13:58 You are a wacko when....you go to your son's high school for a ski trip meeting and notice the little tractor and flatbed trailer full of bags and pizza boxes! I just grab 2 boxes on our way out, and I think one had spit on it from a student from the above corridor. This was around 7:45PM and dark. Also, the next door neighbor that I took some newspaper from her bin comes over to where I'm adding to the compost bin and I'm in my pj's, coat and NEW BLUE RUBBER BOOTS and asks, "What do I have there?" I told her what I was up to and told her I was raking up the leaves in the ditch, clearing up the grass, etc. She said I could have all the leaves I want and I asked about the newspaper and she said she'll just leave the bin by my compost bin. Cool, huh? ;-) Also, when hubby comes home from Nevada after cleaning casinos and brings me two packets of coffee that will make 4 cups. LOL Not quite the garbage bag full of Starbuck's coffee grounds, but I'm sure it will make a nice tea! I still don't have him "dumpster diving" at the restaurants he takes care of for greens or coffee grounds etc. He says it is very messy! Hah! * Posted by: bakemom z6 Ohio (My Page) on Sat, Feb 21, 04 at 0:05 Beverly - You're HERE! I just hopped over to check out a lasagna thread and here you are. Will you be full of instruction at the swap? I'm just chucking stuff here and there and throwing in a bit of shredded paper work. I don't know what I'm doing but things seem to grow better. Help! I'm a winter sowing junkie and thinking this is right up my alley. * Posted by: Storygardener 5/6 central oh (My Page) on Sat, Feb 21, 04 at 7:24 Hi Bakemom!! Well, I have been composting for nearly two years. Most of what I know - came from this forum. I just keep reading all the time and learning! I have done one lasagna garden. It's a veggie garden that I 'layered up' year and a half ago. I have the book if you want to borrow it. ....Beverly * Posted by: PaulNS NS zone 6a (My Page) on Sat, Feb 21, 04 at 12:48 Karalyn, Queen of the Wackos, composting student spit :) A snowstorm drops 90 cm/3 feet of snow on your area and the compost pile is 30m/100 feet from the house so you toss your kitchen scraps on the snow outside the front door and tell yourself you're sheet composting. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Sun, Feb 22, 04 at 11:21 Paul, I love it! Tossing your scraps out the door. I do that with banana peelings outside my front door where the rose bushes are and the clematis plants. I understand they like the potassium in them. But now that I've come to this forum, I snip them in itty bitty pieces into an ice cream pail while listening to Dr. Phil, Montel, or Oprah. I'm behind you guys in my composting and need to speed things up! ;-) BTW, there were a lot more pizza boxes but I know DS wouldn't be interested in helping me nor waiting. But now I know another goldmine, the SCHOOL! * Posted by: Nelz z5b/6 NW PA (My Page) on Mon, Feb 23, 04 at 1:05 I have so many (currently 9) coffee ground buckets out (grocery store cafe's, teacher break rooms, church kitchen, etc.) that I need a list to keep track of emptying them. Plus I put my phone number on the lids so someone calls me when it's near full. BTW, most places have appropriate sized buckets so pick-ups can be done at the same time, yet I still have full buckets to pick-up, and I am not taking up extra space under their counter. This spring I hope to get others to start taking those grounds (will replace phone number lids with blank ones) so I can quit the circuit pick-up, now that I have starbucks on the hook for quite a bit 1 or 2x a week. * Posted by: flora_uk SW UK 8/9 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 25, 04 at 8:57 YKYACWW .... you hear a wail from the living room. Your daughter has just puked up on the carpet. You eye it up. Not toooo sloppy. Grab a piece of cardboard, scoop and run down the garden to the pile. Mission accomplished, you come back and start to mop up daughter. Got to get your priorities right. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Wed, Feb 25, 04 at 16:35 FLora-ROTFL! * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Sun, Mar 7, 04 at 11:26 I scored the other day! I was going to a school meeting for my 12 year old, went through the fancy new neighborhood and saw the grounds workers cutting down tree branches and all the grasses (ornamental) and they were put in piles on the lawn later to be picked up. I made a mental note to go back and ask about the grasses. I took a different route home, but made a quick left turn into the subdivision. I asked the first guy, they are from Mexico and don't speak much English, but enough to direct me to the boss. He said fine and I offered my club wagon to put the grass into. They said "No, they wouldn't fit." I have all my bench seats in it. (I loved how they talked amongst themselves in spanish to decide about taking them to where I live which is behind the new subdivision) They actually loaded all the cut grasses and raked up leaves and put them in their truck and took them to my house and unloaded them for me. I wasn't expecting such service. They said they would just dump them anyway. So, I scored big time in the goal of getting other people's mulch and having it delivered. Where is that thread anyway?! I told them they can dump more of their grasses. They weren't done with this big subdivision and they also mow the shared grassy area and little parks. So I told them feel free to dump the grass too! When the grass gets long enough to mow. Plus I got the main guy's card to have him do some pruning and other stuff for me. I think the crew was amazed that this blonde haired lady, driving a ford clubwagon was willing to load it up with all the tall grasses! Let alone talk to them, as some people in this manicured area probably wouldn't bother speaking to them. Okay, is the yellow ornamental grass considered a brown or green? * Posted by: sylviatexas z8 Tx (My Page) on Mon, Mar 8, 04 at 17:15 One day I was to meet friends for a drink after work. I got there early, &, being a naturally shy & bashful person, I sat at the bar & talked to the bartender about my enthusiasm for Starbucks coffee grounds, other people's leaves, etc. Gary was the first to arrive. Gary's a hoot. He's one of those people who's always sanitizing their hands & spritzing the kitchen counter with anti-bacterial stuff. He sat down next to me just as the bartender said, "I just finished making myself a pitcher of tea. Would you like the teabag?" & I said *yes*! Of course! Thank you very much! So she put it in a sandwich bag for me. Gary eyed it & shuddered. The bartender, seeing his reaction, looked at him speculatively & said, "We roasted some peanuts in the shells earlier today for happy hour. Would you like the shells?" So she & I scooped peanut shells into my sandwich baggie as Gary made faces & shuddered. * Posted by: antic_zone9 z9FL (My Page) on Mon, Mar 15, 04 at 20:13 You know you're a compost wacko (or a wannabe) when: ...you take morning walks on trashday, pretending to be exercising, when you're really scouting the free bags of leaves. ...you walk the same route again, this time with the dog, in order not to arouse suspicion because you want to snag a beautiful closet door that will make a perfect wormbin (because of it's louvers). :) ...you don't worry about working out in a gym because you get your upper body workout by forking and turning your garbagecan compost bin. :) ...your DW is actually proud of you because of your commitment to something worthwhile (although you know she wonders about your sanity sometimes!) ;) ...you're ticked off that you can't compost plastic, because it won't break down within your lifetime, but you are happy that you are composting 60% of your garbage! ...you read composting books in the restroom and wonder if the DW would EVER let you have a composting toilet in the next house. (even if it was YOU that maintained it!) ...you subconsciously thank all of those hard-working neighbors who painstakingly rake up all of their leaves so you can steal their bags the next morning! ;) ...(this has been said before, but what the heck!) You wonder if the next occupants of the house will take advantage of the fresh composted soil for gardening that the previous owner had spent years transforming from a sandtrap. ...you think about all the OGM that is wasted daily and sleep very well that night knowing that you are doing your small part to hug the earth. * Posted by: maryslc z5-6 (My Page) on Fri, Mar 26, 04 at 23:31

I will try to condense this because I could pontificate for hours on this! My love for gardening came from my father. He was the ultimate green thumb-he didn't have formal training that i know of, but he was a street tree gardener for two of the communities we grew up in, and always had a vegetable garden as a way to supplement our large family's food budget.(Six kids) He was a school music teacher and when summer vacation began he was always found out back tending the garden for pretty much the whole summer. Of all six children I seemed to be the most interested in what he did-and my first memory of my own interest was when he gladly allowed me to plant marigolds around the border of his garden to keep pests away(this was a fairly large plot and now I know why he jumped at my offer to help him!)I was in elementary school at the time. Also eating a tomato whole and sprinkled with salt always brings dad's tomatoes to mind. And asparagus and homemade pickles.... That was my first taste of working in a garden. It wasn't until I was a first-time homeowner that I knew I was going to be a gardener but I chose to go the route of flowers instead of vegetables. The saddest thing, though was that the year before I moved into my new home, my dad developed Alzheimer's disease and everything I needed to ask him for gardening advice about trees and organic gardening was completely gone-he was just a shell of my father-quite sad. Not a day goes by when I'm in my yard and garden that I don't think of Dad and the gift he gave me. I just wanted to share it with him. He passed away two months ago. Just an interesting note; Our family surname has it's origin from Poland and it means 'gardener of an estate' I find that kind of neat. Maybe it's in our bloodline to be gardeners! * Posted by: pkock Zone 6 (My Page) on Tue, May 28, 02 at 2:44 So glad to find this thread - hope it lasts, because it's fun! Honestly, I am not sure what got me hooked. I think it's my tendency to love "scientific" stuff - I never pursued it professionally, but I'll make anything into a science experiment. I got through two pregnancies with that attitude. ;-) My grandma was the gardener in our family. She lived with us, and each year we had to have a veggie garden. My dad wasn't into yard work much, but was "forced" into the labor required, turning over the clay soil with a spade and protesting the entire time. Always basic stuff - tomatoes, peppers, pole beans, but they sure tasted good. We had strawberries for a couple of years, and there was a big apple tree in our yard that grew "cooking" apples. Grandma made lots of pies and applesauce. Then there was Girl Scouts - one year we had a hike with a knowledgeable person who pointed out all the fantastic wild plants along the trail. I absorbed it all like a sponge. This is rare, this is edible, this is a cure for poison ivy, etc. I still remember most of it, teach my daughter, and soon will teach her scout troop too. I was voted "Miss Outdoorswoman" in high school. Isn't that neat? Some things never change. :) --Pam * Posted by: Lucy2 Z7Atlanta (My Page) on Wed, May 29, 02 at 8:23 I love reading these. I remember going to visit my grandparents in Texas every summer. We lived in New Hampshire and would fly down and my grandparents would meet us at the airport. The first thing we would do when we got to Grandma's house was run to her garden. Every year she planted a watermelon JUST FOR US! Oh, how special that was. We would walk into the garden and she would "double check that it was ripe and time to pick it and she would let us watch as she "ever so gently" plucked the watermelon from the garden and we would sit on her front porch all afternoon eating the best watermelon we had ever tasted and spitting seeds as far as we could. Sadly, my Aunt burst my childhood memory bubble (when I was in my 40's but it still hurt!) by telling me that my Grandparents would go to the grocery store the night before we flew in, buy a watermelon and lay it in the garden "just for us", pretending they planted it and grew it all along...I guess I'm in denial because I still tell my children about those fond memories! * Posted by: becki3 z5 IN (My Page) on Tue, Jul 23, 02 at 20:34 Can I still step in here? This is such a wonderful thread, brought back some great memories. But now I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes and a big lump in my throat. One of my first garden memories is of my next-door neighbor when I was very small. She had a gigantic (to me) gooseberry bush that she would make pies for us from, if I would pick the berries. And she also had a thick grape vine that she would sit down with me in the middle of the yard and eat grapes from right off the vine. We always sat on the other side of it so my mom couldn't see us from the window. I don't think she would have minded, but my neighbor made it fun, thinking we were being secretive. She also had about a million plants in her house that she would show me all the time. Thinking back on it now, I realize they were mostly African violets. She was in her late 80's, early 90's, and I thought she was the best neighbor a girl could ever have. (still do) :) Then there was my grandpa. When he was a teen in the service, he had come home to visit his mom just before being shipped overseas. He took ONE little segment from her Christmas cactus, which had been a wedding present 25 years before that, and put it in his wallet. He then drove all the way across the country (took a few days), all the while sitting on this wallet. Just before being shipped out, he stuck this one little smashed, dried up piece of Christmas cactus and stuck it in a little pot of dirt from the ground outside his barracks. I'm not sure what happened to it (where it was, who took care of it) while he was in the war. But I do know that when he died in 1994, that Christmas cactus was not only alive, but very, very, VERY big. He had built a planter for it on wheels so he could move it outside in the summer and back inside for the winter. He also had a ramp leading up to his patio door, which he had to remove to get it through. This "planter" was 5 feet long, 3 feet wide, and 4 feet deep. Filled all the way with soil and thick, long roots. And the plant filled every inch of the top of the soil and hung down to the floor all around. He had to give it a "haircut" every time he moved it in or out so he wouldn't run over it with the wheels. I now have a pretty good size pot of this same plant in my husband's office, where it sits in front of a huge window all year long and blooms from Oct to around May every year. I ask about or stop by to check on this plant about once a week. I'm always terrified I might lose this plant, I feel like somehow I would be losing my grandpa all over again. Or that he might be disappointed in me for letting his precious plant die after having survived 4 generations in our family. But my all-time favorite childhood memories (of any kind) come from my Aunt Julia and Uncle Bill. They had a big farm in Missouri with a couple horses, a coop full of chickens, and about 300 head of dairy and beef cows at any given time. Along with the usual couple of dogs and a barn full of cats. And I remember one time my Aunt sent me out with the horse to get a few apples from the big tree out in the east pasture to make a pie for dinner. She told me to get a sack out of the barn to carry them in. Well, being about 8 or 9 at the time, I had no idea how many apples it took to make a pie. So I took 2 big gunny sacks, and me and Ginger (the horse) set out to find that big tree. Ginger was so patient with me as I stood on her back on the blanket that I rode with (never used a saddle) to pick all the apples that I could reach. I tied these two gunny sacks across her back and filled them up full. (poor horse!) When I got back, I didn't think my Aunt and Uncle would ever stop laughing. Instead of a few apples for a pie, I had just picked enough apples for an entire week of non-stop canning, freezing, and baking everything we could think of that contained apples. Then there were the times that Aunt Julia and I would pack a picnic basket to take out to my Uncle Bill when he was working the fields. We would sit under a big tree and just watch him disking the field, or baling the hay until he noticed us in the distance. Then he would come get me and let me drive the big tractors for a while before we ate. But one of my most vivid and comforting memories is of me and Aunt Julia sitting on the porch swing snapping beans or shelling peas. I can't remember who picked those beans and peas, or what she did with them afterwards. But just sitting there snapping and shelling, not even having to speak, but feeling like the most loved person in the world. I just started to garden seriously for myself last year, and this year I had to have those green beans and peas. And I think of my Aunt Julia and Uncle Bill every time I go out to the garden. I almost started crying when my daughter (5yo) asked me the first time if she could help me shell the peas. She had so much fun with them I didn't even mind the ones that kept flying across the kitchen to land under the cabinets or off in a corner with the dust bunnies. And I can just see my Aunt and Uncle smiling now (more like giggling probably). Right now I think I need to call them (they live in Arizona now) and tell them how much I love and miss them, and maybe thank you for teaching me about all the things I love the most. Then I think I will sit down and start crocheting an afghan for Aunt Julia (she taught me how to do that when I was 6). Luckily I learned to crochet a lot better than I learned how to milk a cow (sorry Uncle Bill)! Thanks for letting me take this stroll! Becki :) * Posted by: Mirri 5 (Finland) (My Page) on Fri, Jul 26, 02 at 3:06 My first attempt to garden vegetables was when I was 9. I loved peas, so I wanted to grow them. My father formed me a lot saying it would be too hard for me, turning the thick soil. Then I sow the peas and watered them for about 2 weeks. Then my first dog - who died of old age a few years back at 13- had a friend over. They were just puppies back then, running and playing. My daddy warned me, but I wanted to let them play on our rather tiny lot. They run over my pea-lot several times, breaking all those tender 15cm pea shoots. Oh, how I cried. Then I took little sticks and tied the shoots back up. Most of them recovered. Then the dogs, Roope and Olga, run the pea shoots down again after a week or so. And I gave up. I quit gardening for about 10 years. I only had a few cacti which I killed and bought new ones. But now I am a horticulturist. Working, ironically, in a greenhouse that produces pea shoots! I think that the wonder of growing, seeing the shoots come up from earth was a positive thing in the end. Even though I didn`t get to harvest the peas. This year I have a tiny pea-lot again, the first time after I was 9. I have harvested some, but my dog keeps steeling the pods before I find them. When I was 17 I found gardening again, in the form of houseplants. I was living in a tiny oneroom flat without balcony. The houseplant hobby lead me into studying horticulture. Now I have a son and 2 dogs. If Pyry wants to be a little gardener, I will build a fence around his lot. * Posted by: prairie_rose southalta (My Page) on Tue, Aug 20, 02 at 23:56 my earliest memories. being sat in the potato patch with a coffee can with some kerosene in the bottom and picking potato bugs and putting them in the can. i think that was the way my mom and grandma kept us out of their hair on wash day ( the old wringer washer, rinse tub, mangler days.) i remember the smell of the compost heap, and i never thought it was nasty. my grandpa and i spent lots of time there, spreading things out, turning it over occasionally. i think i must have got compost in my veins, replaced all the blood, cause i still don't find the compost heap all that nasty. (compost tea, well that is a different story. lol) i remember i hated bringing kids to our house in the fall cause you could smell the crocks of sauerkraut brewing. we lived on the edge of town, and i swear my mom was the only one who canned. but i couldn't wait for it to be ready and eating the stuff till i was sure i would burst. i remember we were the "poor kids" but we ate better than any of my friends, and were healthier than most of my friends. the garden was a way of life, and everyone was expected to pitch in. and when harvest happened, everyone was expected to come home to can. my mom would pick the weekend and as young adults, we all showed up. 5 women in a kitchen!!!!! lots of hard work, but lots of laughs, too. and when it was over we all got our share to take home. now, i am a single mom with two kids, and all those lessons are paying huge dividends. my two are the "poor kids" but they eat better than most of their friends and are healthier than most, too. what i save at the supermarket because of the garden pays the morgage and the extras for the kids. and this year, my daughter is taking an active part in the canning. i just wish my grandma, mom and sisters were here, too. * Posted by: lynne_s z5ny (My Page) on Mon, Sep 9, 02 at 22:23 I remember planting potatoes on my grandfather's farm in the early spring when i was about 4 years old. We weren't just planting a little garden patch...I swear this field must have been at least an acre. I remember the fun we had, laughing and running around in the dirt...getting dirty, but it was ok..we were doing something productive. I remember Grampa explaining the different types...we even planted purple potatoes from Russia. Later in our visit to his farm my brothers and sisters and I helped plant the seeds that would become carrots, corn and beans. I remember trudging through the brambles in search of the elusive blueberry bushes...after a morning of picking berries, we'd stop and have lunch...Grampa would take a fishing line and hook out of his pocket and catch small trout from a nearby stream and we'd roast them on a stick over a fire...just like a hot dog. He amazed me...the man could survive in the wilderness with nothing, and probably live better than most of us do today. lol The outdoors was his church; where he prayed, pondered and planned his life. My grandfather, retired by this time still loved gardening and sold his veggies every summer from his down-sized farm. We spent the entire spring and summer there. Everything we ate and drank came from that farm. I still remember how wonderful everything tasted...the taste of fresh food was foreign to me then. I went back to Grampa's farm many times until he passed...there, I worked hard, enjoyed the freedom of being in the outdoors and learned how important it was to treat our planet with respect, for it is what feeds us. It seems I forgot a lot of his wisdom until quite recently. Now that I'm a Mom of 5 boys, with many mouths to feed as well as many personalities and value systems to help develop, the things he taught me are returning. My husband and I have purchased a home out in the country trying to create an environment for our boys that my Grampa created for us...one of fresh air, sun, fun and respect for all things living...an I'm proud to say, we are well on our way! * Posted by: KCtomato1 z5/6 KC, Mo (My Page) on Sat, Sep 14, 02 at 0:36 My grandfathers both got me started. My first memory is of dark purple tulips and tulips that were taller than I. I recall what a joy it was grandpa let me pick one. Somewhere in the family, someone has a picture of it. I was 2-3. Both gardened but it was my paternal grandfather that let me try everything. He introduced me to raw veggies. I still prefer them over cooked. He would also let me in the berry patch - which is what really got me growing. He made a deal with me - if I picked 2 I could eat one. He'd go in and I would pick 'em clean of course taking the best for myself. We both walked away thinking we got the better deal. My maternal Grandfather taught me more on the "how's" rather than the "whats". He grew to sell and was not keen on kids picking things he could potentially sell. When I was small I would go out to the garden where he was working just to be with him and I'd watch. I would have worked but he wouldn?t let me. He thought I was nuts for wanting to work. He told me there were snakes in the berry patch in an "effort" to keep me out. Most the time he ran me off I was just looking for the snake. Him teaching me things came at a much older age. Im grateful for the time I did spend with them and the gift they passed on. Keith * Posted by: bizmhamama CA z10 (My Page) on Tue, Oct 8, 02 at 15:09 This answers your interest in childhood memories in a roundabout way. My parents and I immigrated to the United States when I was four years old and I never really knew my expanded family. My mother, who grew up on a sugar plantation, cared absolutely nothing for getting her hands dirty. Our back yard was concrete! Her only gardening interest was roses. I became interested in indoor plants as a teenager and then became obsessed with succulents once I moved out of the house & had a patch of dirt of my own. I even wondered what it would take to go back to school for a landscaping degree, and daydreamed about owning a nursery. My maternal grandmother came to America only a few years ago. I was fairly shocked to learn that she loves gardening! She grows guava trees from seed. In her 80s, she still derives incredible enjoyment from simply watching living things grow. I realize now my passion for gardening would have been sparked much earlier in life if geography (& politics!) hadn't intervened.