Kimmsr, if ajijoe has soil anything like mine, then he needs to acidify it a bunch. Mine is 8.0-9.0 pH. I had to research why a sandy soil in Florida is so darned alkaline especiallly with the assumption the abundance of wells here with "sulphur water" and my assumption sulphur=acidic, well you can realize my confusion. Well the sand does consist in large part limestone which is very alkaline. Any event I'm not sure what ajijoe should use on a large scale to make the necessary adjustments to get down to 6.2-6.5 pH. I'd like the secret as well. ps. Also Kimmsr I saw the other thread where someone thought you were a she because of your name. I somehow always knew you were a guy perhaps older, and the name always strikes me as being shorthand for: Kim or Kimm Monsiuer. Am I correct?

no... you have two solutions for MATURE pines ... one.. get rid of them .. and solve the needle issue ... two ... remove the rock.. AND LEAVE THE NEEDLES UNDER THE TREES.. where they have naturally accumulated for millions of years ... let me ask you ... why are you forcing a preconceived notion of landscape rock under a pine tree ... pines are conifers .... ALL conifers shed their needles.. generally within 1 to 3 years ... increased by a good drought some years .. the thought that the situation .. on a 40 foot tree.. is going to get better.. or lessened in the future is problematic ... landscape fabric is a snakeoil salesman's joke on the gardening world.. a useless waste of money better spent ... as most weed seed is airborne .. so minutes after putting it down.. you have already been defeated ... roll this around.. if you left the pine needles to build naturally ... they would become a mulch.. a highly acidic mulch ... and reduce your weed problem exponentially ... you are actually defeating the trees attempt to suffocate weed production.. by removing the needles ... bob.. WAG here ... you are trapped in suburbia ... on a small lot.. with sidewalks and neighbors way to close.. and you are getting frustrated with a pine tree.. that in all reality.. is now becoming the FOREST MONSTER it is meant to be.. if there is any budget.. think long and hard about removal .. you are not going to change its inherent properties.. of growing and shedding needles ... in ITS lifetime ... otherwise.. its all good exercise ... good luck ken ps: you are stuck in a box .. i am trying make you look outside the box you have created .... Here is a link that might be useful: check out some of these pix.. you are fighting mother nature.. she ALWAYS wins ....

Actually Dr. Maynard's (note spelling) study was done with the effect of leaf mold fine sandy loam. Per her report, she "used unscreened leaf compost was applied at the rate of 50 T/A (one inch on the surface), 25 T/A and 10 T/A. Compost was rototilled into the soil to a depth of six inches. Compost was produced in a passive pile turned four or five times yearly for two years. In all three years of compost applications, virtually no difference was found in soil nutrients between the compost treatments and the control. However, differences were found in organic matter percentage and pH between the treatments in all three years." The issue under discussion here is the use of uncomposted pine needles - or "fresh" pine needles. My point above was that while composted pine needles will be essentially have a neutral pH, the application of UN-composted pine needles will TEMPORARILY alter the pH of the soil or compost to which they are applied. It will be, for however much time it takes for the pine needles to decompose (which varies according to climate), have an easily tested, acidic pH. The same is true of leaf mold. One can easily test this for themselves using a pH meter and many have done so, myself included. Pine needles have a pH of 5.8-6.2 - clearly acidic. So while the change won't be profound, it will be on the acidic side of the scale. Dave

As the person who has recommended this for the "off label" use to prevent wood fungal infections where there have been wounds through the bark of trees caused by pruning large branches or other mechanical injuries, maybe I can give a thought or two. First, of course, if it is not something recommended on the label, I would not say it won't work. But my guess is that if the fungus that causes the blight is encased within a needle, it may not have much effect because the fungus killing power of the copper may not get to the heart of the fungus. But there may be no harm in trying. I would use the concentrations recommended on the label for combating other fungal diseases. Definately do not use in the concentrations I recommend for the wood treatments I have described in many previous posts. That would be much to much and could pose some environmental hazard. --Spruce