you might get some divergent opinions in the tree forum ... or even the hosta forum... as they deal with trees .... and you didnt answer .. with specificity.. how many hours of sun and when ... e.g. 4 hours of sun at dawn is not equivalent to 4 hours at high noon... its an intensity issue ... and 8 hours of high intensity sunshine is usually the min .... as a hosta grower ... oaks are one of my fave trees to garden under... i am just not thinking.. that is your root issue ... its fall.. leaves should be falling... it would help.. if you could IDs of your trees ... again.. in the tree forum ... if these veg peeps cant ID oaks ... and... are you sure they are all oak??? ... i like to say.. a trees roots system.. and be twice as large as what you see above ground.. usually in the shape of a rather flat pancake... perhaps a generalization ... but it gets the point across.. that you can be 50 feet away from a tree.. and still be dealing with it ... and if you have mature oaks.. what is behind them.. lurking.. doing their evil.. also.. manuring AND fertilizing... could be double dosing on nutrients ... and that would cause some of your observations... and i never heard of looking at a pepper and blaming a tree out back ... have you asked about that in the pepper forum???? i highly suspect... the trees are NOT your problem ... other than not allowing enough sunlight .... BTW ... does grass grow in your yard.... how aggressive is it??? .. if its sparse and struggling.. it could be a tree issue.... if it grows with vigor.. then .. on some level.. it rules out the tree issue .. a bunch of generalities for sure... mostly because.. i want you to focus on alternative reasons... other than the trees .. but for the sun amount issue .. ken

I hope you'll stick with me while I post a few more pictures. Although the leaves look very much like the Pale Indian Plantain, it's never developed a flower stalk and shows no sign of doing so although it is admittedly still early in the season. I took some pictures with hopes it will help identify it. These unknowns came up right next to the daylilies and I didn't want them there anyhow so they got selected for culling out. The same plants shown with most of the roots still attached and shovel to show scale. And the underside of the plant: The soil it's growing in is pretty much heavy clay. Thanks for looking and for assistance. Traudi

Countrythymelady: So glad you introduced yourself to the forum. It is rather slow at the moment but that should change quickly as folks gather in their seed for 2o10. Keep watching the boards for the upcoming seed exchanges that will undoubtedly be happening. I am sure I recall Kenny(Origami_Master)saying that he was going to once again host his exchange which has become a bi-annual tradition...so watch out for his posting. This is a great way to build up your supply of both common and interesting seeds for the coming year. Hoping you will enjoy your time here and we will look forward to conversing and exchanging with you. Happy Gardening. Ross.

Everybody's right, of course. which means that it's all the more imporant to make & maintain, as pk says, "that little oasis in the concrete, a way station for the hungry and tired". When the wildlife has been reduced to a small percentage of the numbers that once flourished, it's likely that the habitat & food supply have been demolished. That last pair of cardinals needs you to plant big thorny roses & to fill the bird feeder. A little bit off the subject, or maybe not, is the idea of mentoring, of "spreading the gospel" of gardening to help rather than dominate nature. Those of us who grew up when the world was a greener & less crowded place-when you could ride a horse to a friend's house, when cut grass smelled like grass, & when zillions of butterflies took flight with our every step through a pasture-have a lot to pass on to a new generation. Sharing knowledge & skills as well as plants is a powerful way to increase our effectiveness as conservators of our beautiful world. If we can show a friend the value of plants in the food chain, & that friend digs up the grass & plants for our birds & butterflies & pollinators, if we can show our neighbor that poisons are bad & plants & bugs are good for her toddler, & that neighbor throws out her herbicides & plants vegetables & berries, if we can show our brothers & sisters that lawns are high maintenance brats with expensive chemical dependencies & they till up a section & put in an herb garden, that's a step. don't know if it's a big or a little step, but it's a step. & every step counts a great deal when so much is being damaged & so much is being destroyed.