Here's a pic of the trunk.

Thanks,
Jennie

Here is a link that might be useful:

I'm not 100% sure about what is happening, but it looks as if your tree might be saying it's last good bye... Sorry.... Sango Kaku is one of the most tender palmatums (re: cold and heat) and is best reserved for a very protected spot in z5... It looks as if there might be some bark split at the bottom.. This is often caused by intense sunlight in late winter/early spring along with fluctuating temps... When the bark splits, the cambium is disturbed thus not allowing a complete flow of water and nutrients from the roots to the top of the tree. The tree can not hold its leaves (which might explain your summer color)... and will defoliate... The best thing to do if you want to try Sango Kaku is to place it where it will be in shade during the winter months... Sorry... Hopefully I'm wrong though???

I sure hope your way wrong here. I don't want to lose this tree. Anything I can do with the bottom trunk ? This tree is on the north/west corner of the house. This tree has been in the ground about 2 yrs. & has done good here. Do the sango kaku's turn this color & when usually ? I have never seen it be anything other than green lacey leaves. Please help me save this tree (if needed) & really want to keep in this location.

Thanks,
Jennie

Jennie-
Hi, I really wish I knew what was going on w/ your tree... I can only tell you what I think it is... Maybe some of the maple experts can help you out and chime in here. I know they are expensive trees... Can you post another closeup of the bark...??? Does there appear to be a line anywhere along the trunk in which it looks like the bark has "not come together?" I don't know of any insects or diseases that would cause this??? My only concern is why is it turning its autumn color now..??? It appears like it is really stressed somehow... I certainly would not move it or disturb it in anyway....

Well,
I love this tree in this location & it has done great for 2 yrs. & now this ! The only thing I can think of is, too much mulch & in the pic you can see where I put it right up against the trunk. I since have moved some mulch out from the trunk & made a bowl. I will try to get another pic soon. I didn't think you could do too much mulch. I hope it makes it & would love to try to save it, if possible. I know it can't be too dry & causing stress there , because , we have had good amounts of rain this yr. . I just don't know here ???

Jennie

I'm not giving up here , but , tree isn't looking so hot. What happened & why ?

Now if this tree doesn't pull though, can you guys reccomend another upright *green leaf* JM for this spot ? I want green because of the wine & roses shrubs around it.

Do you trust the JM's from Lowe's (names being right)? I have seen them have many this yr. . I would love to try another Sango Kaku. Any other JM that is just as showy ?

Thanks,
Jennie

Also, the locaton here in this bed is facing NW, so does get the SW winds & sun from behind coming from the S. Gets good amount of sun in this spot , but , winds from the S. Have woods around us & would think this would stop real harsh winds. Maybe not in the winter & this may be winter bark spit at the bottom then. Not sure what it looks like 100% or if there's any way to prevent it ? Still need help on a JM that would look great & fit in this location.

Thanks,
Jennie

Jennie, the bark on my Sango Kaku looks even worse than yours. I was sure it was dead and almost pulled it out but it has lived two years after I've noticed the damage which went all around the base and even on some limbs. However, the leaves did not turn autumn on me in the middle of summer.
Wait and see is all you can do. One thing with this tree, if the leaves drop early but the twigs mostly stay red, you have a chance. If all the twigs go grey, oh well...
Did you notice that the peeling happened soon after the base of the trunk lost its red color? I think mine was soon after. Maybe it is its nature. Mine lives on. Hope yours does too.

Here is a link that might be useful: When Trees Drop Their Leaves or Develop Early Fall Color

I take it that if damage was done through winter winds which I suspect is the case here then you should protect the trunk from that direction (it seems that wherever I read wind, both too hot and too cold, particularly windchill in our zone 5 causes many problems).

There are many different cultivars that are green and hardy JMs to choose from. I've heard that 'Hogyoku' is pretty hardy and is a nice tree. Acer shirawasanum 'Aureum' is one of the best, and are even said to be hardier than JMs. Look into the Japonicums as well. This has some of best green varieties of cultivars for exposed zone 5 locations.

It's a pity though if you have to replace that one in the photo. That is a nice tree.

This is what it looks like today......YUCK !! Not sure if there is any chance ?

Loretta, Was yours this bad ? If so, I feel fine , but , if not.....I know not good !!!! Yours never changed color nor dropped leaves ? Not sure about the trunk & when it spit ? I guess I just noticed it this spring.

What to use to wrap bottom the trunks with & how long to keep on the tree ?

Could the mulch that I kept for 2 yrs. right up to the trunk have done it ? I have since pulled it back (see pic)& did with the other JM's too.

Here's pics I just took today & you can see better what the trunk did.

I did start another post for suggestions of getting another one if this one don't make it.

Thanks,
Jennie

{{gwi:332766}}

Jennie- I'm sorry to tell you, but that tree is not going to pull through.. It's done... Naturally, one doesn't want to mulch "up the trunk," but it doesn't look like that was caused by mulch.. I really think that it is cold damage... I really didn't notice this before, but that planting is a raised bed (really raised) which can sometimes be equivalent to a large pot- the ground is going to freeze faster,and thus the roots, in there than had it been at the same level as the lawn. Sango Kaku is notorious for being more tender than some of the others... If you are going to plant another japanese maple in that spot you need a hardier variety.. If you are going to plant Sango kaku again, it is best to plant it somewhere that is protected from winter sun and wind, the closer to the foundation of your home the better... I'm so sorry to give you such bad news all the time... If a landscaper planted that area, you should let them know regarding the cold damage...

Well.....I figured it was not looking good for the tree ! Thing is.....it has made it 2 winters now in this spot, why now did it croak in the dead of summer ? Won't it just die come spring if it had a hard winter ? This past winter was real mild for us also.

Now.......what kind of JM to put in this spot ? Want to stay with a JM ? I did the landscaping......so my fault here I guess , but , never thought of it as a big pot ? Thought once in soil.......all would be fine.

Bum deal & I hate it.

Jennie

I know I took pictures when I first noticed it. I will see if I can find them. I noticed the damage when the plant would have lost its leaves anyway - in autumn. I suspected a rodent. The leaf loss wasn't right that year, more brown and I think they clung on, and that was my first hint something wasn't right. When I saw the bark, I was very upset like you. I didn't wrap it, I thought it was dead come spring. I didn't do anything.
Today I saw four of these JP with orange coloring. Three were large nursery plants and one was a well established tree. One of these were partly in full sun and only that part was orange. However, none were getting crispy even though they seem to hang down a little more than my green tree and none had bark damage like you and me. Mine is in shade but the first couple of years I had it, any part that grew into full sun, scorched.

Your leaves look dry and crispy, are they? Or are they still soft.
In your last pictures, it looks like a few of the branches are black. Are they or is that just shadow?

I will have to double check the branch being black. I think just a shadow from the red on the limb. Leaves are crisp. I just don't understand it !!! Did yours look this bad at all ? I'm on the hunt for another nice hardy JM in case. Do you recommend any nice green leaf ? Want one like the bloodgood with shape of leaves & tree , but , green leaf & HARDY. What to use to wrap trunks ?

Thanks,
Jennie

Can you at least protect the trunk with some type of wrap? This might help to prevent further damage from insect or anything else?? Looks like a pretty tree, I have a very small one that lost all its leaves and it now sprouting green leaves.. I have the worst conditions for JM's but I havent lost one yet though..

Hi Jennie- If it was winter damage, which I'm guessing was the problem, it makes sense that it would occur over a few years... The bark split probably occurred the first winter, but it wasn't so noticeable to you becuase it tends to begin to heal itself in the summer. But, after a second winter with barksplit again occuring over the same area, you are going to have noticeable trouble with pealing, etc. With so much of the bark and cambium damaged, the tree can not get water/nutrients to its canopy, thus the crispy leaves and early color... I don't know many extremely hardy green leaved JM's, but I've heard the variegated white/green Ukigumo is very hardy and relatively easy to find... So is Bloodgood, but that is Red... Crimson Queen, and Inaba shidare are other laceleaved forms that are very hardy but they too are Red... Acer sharawsanum (Korean Maple) is hardier than Acer palmatum and would do well in that site... There are some green forms, as well as Aureum, which is a GORGEOUS yellow and Autumn Moon which is yellow overlaid with peach/red tones... VERY NICE...
Of course since I can't be there to look directly at the tree, I could be totally wrong and you could have some sort of insect/disease problem which did the tree in and you could plant another Sango Kaku which might do well... And I do know that many Lowe's stores are selling Sango Kaku this year... I don't know... I wish someone else would chime in here to help me out...lol... But Sango Kaku is best reserved for zone 6 unless extremely well sited in z5... I have had the same problem Jennie... I have (had) 2 Sango's one up against the house facing the East (never a hint of damage) another (which I finally got rid of) out in the yard facing SW, which had barksplit 2 years in a row... The tree itself never fully died like yours did, but certain limbs would "color" and "crisp" the last two summers.. So I put it out of its misery... SAD.. I know and expensive...

I have a oak out front that looks worse than that from some type of tree borer and its still alive.. I wouldnt bury the tree just yet.. I treated mine with some heavy chemicals and its thriving this year. Sango Kaku's are for sale here for about 150-200 at HD for about the same size. I am outside Dallas, not a good zone for JM''s but they sell alot of them. I have 13 different ones and almost all lose their leaves every year, they all come back in the fall and spring looking perfect until summer when they turn into empty skeletons..

Actually, the green varieties of JM are typically hardier--at least the parent Acer palmatum which is a very nice tree and should be on your short list of replacements. Look into Acer japonicums which are hardier than palmatums and real nice looking, and as doniki mentioned the shirawasanums are real nice too.

kevip you have the opposite problems as Jennie. What works in your area will not work in hers. Even if Sango kaku lives in your area it seems to fare badly up north. JMs will not tolerate lots of chemicals, fertilizers, manure. It is interesting though that in the summer all your leaves disappear. Is this becasue of the sun? Do all your JMs lose their leaves in the summer?

Not all of them, my bloodgoods do, my balsmith did, I have a mystery one that does, my crimson used to but now it does not. My Viridis pretty much did, but has sprouted back new ones as we speak and one of my others which I cannot recall the name its on my default home page. That one is completely bare. All come back every spring looking perfect until the heat and the sun comes around June. September or so they start to come back and then Dec/Jan they lose all leaves again. So I can only enjoy them for short periods at a time. Spring is really pretty in my backyard. My site has pics of all my maples. Most of them burn almost bare except the crimson and the Takey's..

Thanks for all the great advice !!!!!

I checked today with a bark scrap (slightly) on different places of the tree & still seeing some green.

I need to know what to spray (don't see signs of bugs , but , if I wrap it....don't want them to get behide the wrap) this area with & what to wrap it with if possible please ??????

The leaves are crisp & crunchy. You can crumble them in your hands. I would like to see it make it , but , on the other hand......hate looking at it !!

Called a nursery today & want to go look at their JM's , but , costly !!! Hate to put that back in another tree. I seen Sango's at our Lowe's & they raised their prices on all JM's this yr. ! Sango's are $110 & smaller than this one. The guy at the nursery said, he had a grown from seed a green acer palmatum that's great ! Claims it would make a nice landscaping tree standing 7' for $145.00 ! Not bad , but , I want a nice show tree & not sure on this one ? He claimed he likes them better than Sango's due to their nice shape & also fall color. Any suggestions ?

All the ones you people have mentioned I have had no luck finding around here yet !

Oh....also I pulled all the mulch away from the bark of this dying tree & now like a moat around the outer edge of it. Is this fine or now will it dry out ? Has been like that a week now. It's planted in a raised bed , but , has been in 2 yrs. now.

Should I give up & rip it out or can it be saved ??

Thanks,
Jennie

Save it.. I cant remember the spray I bought but it was for tree borers, I dont think thats what you have, but I could be wrong, maybe some fugicide and a wrap might be best rather than an insecticide. The wrap can be a plastic wrap that are sold with some trees, it protects the bottom trunk, I wouldnt pull the tree until spring. If it doesnt have any new leaf growth then, its dead.. I actually think my baldsmith is dead but I will wait for spring to find out.. its totallly bare and even trunk doesnt look good. All my others are ok just look terrible.. the crimson seems to do the best but its on its third year and has some bamboo shade.

Many times near the base of a tree, especially maples, we can get a borer invading and starting the damage. Usually there is a very small hole just above the damgaged area, but it does not have to be in that exact location. From what I am seeing, I would suspect that is what happened with your tree, but it may have been combined with some late winter sun damage creating a means of easy entry.

Usually after the borer invades we see some secondary fungal or decay infection. This can be enough to kill the tree if it is not treated early.

The other scenario is a pseudomnal infection. That lesion does not look like this type, but it typically happens near the base of the tree and begins with a black coloration. The area soon decays and usually splits open. These are much more severe infections than the borer as we can treat the borer if we catch it early. The pseudomonal infections are much tougher to stop.

You will want to take standard steps to protect your trees by beginning to prune the dead wood if there is any and make sure it receives adequate moisture. To stop any fungal or bacterial infection you should spray the area with a broad spectrum fungicide/bacteriacide and allow it do completely dry for 24 hours. Then, as unpopular as it will be, you need to seal the area with a tree sealant, leaving the finished surface smooth.

If the tree is still living by fall, you will want to give it some grannular 0-10-10 and by later winter you will want to wrap or protect the trunk so that further sun damage is not created.

Best of luck,

I have seen about 5 to 8 small dots of white cotton ball looking things on the trunk. About 3" or so up from the damage of the trunk. They are tiny & about half a pea size. They seem soft & rub off.

Not sure about keeping ? I hate to remove it , but , man is it ugly !! Would this tree look the best out of all JM's in this location or would something *green leaf* else be 100% better ? I could move the Sango somewhere else if something would be hardier & look better here.

We have many trees all over our wooded lot that I have planted in the 2 yrs. living here. Would love to protect them , but , can you take steps on a yearly basis to spray trees to help prevent bugs, etc ? If so, what to use ? Should you bother with this unless you see something wrong first ? I don't know any problems that can happen to trees & hate to see it get too late like this Sango !!

I have planted forest pansy redbuds, dogwoods, blue spruce, lilac tree, reg. redbuds, magnolia (sp?), hemlocks, crimson queen JM, bloodgoods, gr. lace leaf JM, & another kind of acer JM, maples (oct. glory, crimson king, red sunset), popolar, & crabapples.

I have seen some splitting at the base of our redbuds & one tends to do a 1" split up the whole trunk here & there on all sides up the tree. Tree is about 2" maybe in diameter. I see some splitting or chewing at base of some trees also. I see mainly things going on with trunks. Most of these trees are all out in the yard with grass. Didn't want to mulch arond every tree out in the yard. Want that wooded look of trees growing natural. JM's are mulched & mostly around the house area.

Just wondered if I should be spraying them or what ? What to wrap , but , afraid insects will get in behind wrap !!

I have seen the 3" brown paper type wrap......is this
good ?

Mjh1676,
Not sure what you mean by you need to seal the area with a tree sealant, leaving the finished surface smooth.

Finish surfaced smooth ? I was always told that sealant was a waste & let the tree heal itself.

Thanks,
Jennie

Here is a picture of how the first damage looks NOW that I noticed two falls ago. You can see how much it has healed and grown new bark.

Here is some current damage:

I have more pics but need to go through it. Somewhere I have a picture of the original damage from when I found it.

I did not use any sealant, the tree healed itself. The white dots sound like scale.
As much as you hate looking at it, you might give it one season - it is already almost August. In the meantime, you might pick something nice up on sale this fall...just in case. At least you might get some red twigs for the winter. If the twigs turn grey or black, then you know for sure.

I think our damage is worse Loretta. I want it to heal on it's own , but , also feel if I keep it & in this location, then I need to wrap it with something. I don't understand why it would look like this right now in July ? Why would it decide if it's not dying to do this ? I took more pics below & you can see the top part still has red bark color. I'm just not sure if this tree would look great in this spot ? Are the big Sango's awesome & have a nice shape ? Where this is at it does get a good amount of full sun about all day. Any suggestions on what the nursery guy said ? I see where you have mulch right up against your trunk Loretta, I thought this was bad & thought that might have been our issue, so I moved ours away from this tree & all other JM's. See where I made a moat ? Mulch is way think on the other edge & about just dirt up against the trunk. Is this ok that way ? I had it for 2 yrs. right up against the trunk & thought maybe this is why is was stressing. Too much mulch in this built bed & right up to the trunk !!! See by the pics....I didn't see that white stuff on it yesterday.

Our tree is splitting up the tree & will peel right off if you try to touch it. You could peel it like an orange ! One side isn't a deep as the other side that gets more of the weather. To me the base of the trunk looks dead , but , a slight scratch here & there on the tree I did get white or greenish under the thin bark & not just hard brown. Anymore suggestions ???

Thanks,
Jennie

The mulch is very thin, not even completely covering the soil.
Whose to say mine won't eventually bite the dust. It can still happen and I kind of expect it. I feel like I am on borrowed time. Remember, the first pic is damage from two falls ago as it looks now. There was splitting, peeling and lifting completely around the trunk and as you can see and pretty far into it - notice the gray wood. It continues today all the way up into the branching now.
I don't think you have more damage but there are a few differences between our trees. One obvious difference is our zones. Another big difference is the maturity. I bought mine in the late nineties as a small whip meant for mail order. It has been in place since then so the roots are more established. However, yours has more mature bark than mine. Mine just only lost the red color at the stem about the same time as the damage was noticed. I don't have plates and furrows yet.
As far as substitutions, I am not a JM expert but there is certainly no lack of them. There are so many beautiful trees. The only reason I grow this variety is because of the winter presence which is strong. The stems are redder than my dogwoods. It isn't my favorite leaf or shape tree if I had to run it against other maples during the other seasons.
OK, I know I have a pic somewhere of a more mature tree at the NYBG during winter - it is stunning. It will take a little time, I know I keep promising these pics but I will try to find it before the weekend is over. They are on another computer.
BTW, I am not trying to talk you into keeping the tree if you want another one. I can't blame you. I would probably want to move it too even though at this point it would make things worse. I am only comparing our plants. Even though mine didn't die, doesn't mean yours won't. Just offering a possibility that it might not. I wonder what your warrenty was on this plant? I know most places are one year but once in a while, the more expensive nurseris offer more time.

Only 1 yr. warrenty ! Stinks. You know though.....I think I got this tree for less than $50.00 at Lowe's. They have since came way up on their trees this yr. Haven't really seen it grow very much in the time having it.

Jennie

Jennie- if you do replace this with another, hardier JM, I would probably wait until next spring so that the tree has an adequate time to establish before winter... I know how you feel. Not trying to be argumentative with anyone posting from zones 7/8, but for the most part when damage like Jennie's show up on JM's, especially tender ones like Sango Kaku, we look to the hardiness factor first. *Some* are simply too tender for zone 5, unless they are well positioned. Bark split on JM's here is VERY common... especially in rural areas and newer developments where there isn't much in the way of microclimates... If the bark split is not too severe or is "patchy", like in loretta's case, the tree will heal itself and within a few years once the tree really establishes itself you will never be able to tell the difference. I don't know where you live in OH Jennie, but there is a nursery up here on the east side of Cleveland called Leuty's that has a huge selection of JM's... all varieties, sizes and prices... They are very knowledgable about maples... There # is 440-338-8020.

Thanks for the info !

Wouldn't you want to replace or plant in the Fall. I always thought this was the bast time to plant trees. Mine have always seemed to do better + might find a nice sale. What time or month is best to plant come spring ? We are near Newark OH. More SE part of OH. We still need to know if we should wrap this area, what to use, & do we need to spray for bug so they won't get in behind the wrap ?

Thanks again,
Jennie

Fall is a very good time to plant trees and shrubs... But spring is better for those trees and shrubs that are a bit tender like japanese maples, azaleas, rhododendrons, holly, dogwoods, hydrangeas, roses...etc... It gives them a longer time to establish a root system before the onset of winter... Thus, with a more established root system a borderline z5/6 plant can better withstand a harsh winter. Those plants that are hardy to z5 and lower can be easily planted in fall because they have a genetic makeup that allows them to survive extremes of cold, should we have a harsh winter... Also, from my personal experience, if you are going to spray for insects/disease, I would not wrap the trunk... just let it go so it receives good air circulation....

I see you aware of proper mulch placement now. Unfortunately, in your original photo, mulch against the trunk like that holds moisture in. A mostly wet trunk will allow fungi to get in. It can and does kill trees. I don't know if it is the cause of your trees, but it could be.

Another possible cause is the tree was planted too deep. Even in your last photo, I do not see a "flare", where the trunk starts spreading wide into the roots. Planting too deeply can kill a tree, and cause bark to come off the base like that.

Just some thoughts to help you with your replacement planting.

Well thanks gottagarden ! I do know now onthe mulch & have since moved all mulch away from trees. Hope they don't get too dry now. I know to watch planting trees too deep & don't think this is the cause.

I'm still seaching for a hardy/pretty JM to put in this spot !!!! I want to do it before fall & soon if possible. Is the just plain green acer P. JM hardy enough ? I know this tree is done now. Did bark scrapes & NO green.

Jennie

Jennie Oh and Loretta,

In reading this thread I have to say that I agree with Gotta Garden on the depth of planting. If a tree looks like a telephone pole at the soil line it's planted too deep. The rootflare should be visible. It may have been planted too deep in it's pot or in the ground in the nursery. Mulch should be applied about 3" thick and not against the trunk as you've already discovered. I suspect that there may have been some type of injury where the bark began to peel, and the depth of the mulch was just too much over the winter. As long as there is at least half the bark around the base of the tree it has a chance to recover. I would give this tree another season after corrections to soil and mulch levels. Here's a site about why bark splits.
http://www.ext.vt.edu/departments/envirohort/factsheets2/tree/jan90pr4.html

Trees often respond to stress slowly and probably the reason it took a couple of years to show signs of stress. Leaves are expendable to a tree so they will tend to shed them first when stressed. You should find these sites helpful.

Rootflare:
http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/planting/nosoil.htm
http://www.tlcfortrees.info/planting%20depth.htm

Mulch:
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/mulching.asp
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/mulching.aspx

How to plant a tree:
http://www.arborday.org/trees/video/howtoplant.cfm
http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/trees/f1147w.htm

Newt

Forgot to mention that anyone looking for Asian maples for cold climates should find this useful.
http://www.weedpatch.com/hidden/wp_media/pdf/carlson_s98.pdf

Newt