I'll chime in here with my experience. I am in Central Illinois and all Japanese maple growing is an experiment. First of all, I wouldn't shy away from putting Beni Schichihenge in the ground. I have had mine since 1995 and I know of another planted in the area that has done well for years. It seems to be one of my hardier, faster growing maples. I've killed a Jerre Schwartz, pretty quickly as a matter of fact, but it was likely my own dumb fault. The Emerald Lace seems to be really hardy. I have two small ones which have made it through 2 winters and bought a larger one from a local greenhouse and it did well last year with no dieback, so I'm optimistic. I also have an old Ukigumo (1998)and it seems to withstand winter with no problem. Murasaki Kiyohime is one I want to get since a couple people in zone 5 have mentioned its hardiness. I also have wanted Ariadne, but haven't gotten it yet. My "green" never stretches far enough, and I don't mean my yard.

As far as the hypertufa. I love those and make a bunch every year, but I have not had any luck growing maples in them. I don't know if they change the ph and make them too alkaline or if they dry out too fast, or what. The most wonderful containers I have started making are cedar boxes. The maples seem to like them and they look nice on my patio and are lighter and easier to move around.

Sounds like you have a nice place to overwinter them. Watch the temps, though. I keep mine in my garage, which gets no light. It's under the house and usually stays around 30 degrees unless it gets below zero. My understanding is you don't want your containers to go below 25 degrees or they will die. Even in my garage, if we get below zero it can fall to the 25 degree range. I would hate to see you lose them if there is a really cold snap in January/February. Water about once a month when we get a thaw so the water doesn't just run through the pot.

Please experts who read this stuff above. If you don't agree let me know. I'm still working out maple container growing myself and feel like I'm getting there, but have a way to go.

Good luck with your "addiction" because I can tell you, that is what happens:)
Kay

Kay,

Thanks for your response! Unfortunately, we already had a snap here where the "high" for 3 days was around 5 degrees. The back porch was probably around 15 degrees. It was that cold for about four days, and today was up to nearly 50. Tomorrow is supposed to be warmer. Should I move my maples into my basement until March/April? I fear that if they were going to freeze from those temps, they would have, but the refreeze would probably be worse for them.

My basement does have some natural light, and I could set up grow lights pretty easily. It is usually in the 50s in there most of the winter. Will they be better off down there now for the rest of winter, or should I leave them on the back porch? The grower insisted that they should stay on the back porch ALL winter and I tried to argue with him about the difference in winter between Iowa and California. However, I also don't have a guarantee on these little ones.

My garage is a detached 1-car, in pretty bad shape, so I don't think that would be much warmer than the back porch. I'm sure we'll get a few more of those days that don't get warmer than 5 degrees, so if I'm going to move them into the basement now is probably the best time (since the basement and the back porch are about the same temperature, with this odd warm spell).

On a separate note, the maple bug has bit me! I have a pickup truck and the lease runs in October 2009. I'm thinking about buying it from the lease or getting the same version new, putting a topper on, and driving to a large grower to just load up my truck! I do need more green for that though. I don't even have a maple budget for this year, I spent it all on dwarf conifers.

Experts, please chime in! Leave them on the back porch, or into the basement?

Elisabeth,

Growers keep their overwinterted stock in hoop houses. The nurseries and growers with the big money heat them, others do not. A garage is basically the same thing. A basement is definitley as your grower already told you a definite no. Not for conifers, not for Maples, not for any woody plants that require being dormant for extended periods of time.

After fall however and when woody plants meet one month of cold requirements, then you could bring them in your home but at this time they'll require good lighting because what'd you'd be doing is allowing them to break bud (start growing). Bonsai rules dictate this. In other words, all those conifers or maples, or woody plants "in containers" can be brought into a warm greenhouse after one month of meeting cold requirements.

I happen to have all my containers in my garage and while very little light is needed, some should be given to them. I will say that no light in a garage certainly doesn't mean your plants will die. For over five years I had potted trees and shrubs in a dark and unheated garage with no casualties at all, however, literature will tell you that some light is needed. Just not a lot.

The probelms with structures that are unheated are that they warm up very quickly when the weather turns early on and your plants can induce bud break, but, "last frosts" are not done yet I guess is a good way to say it. Meaning, if your plants break bud, you'll need to quickly bring them indoors or to any heated environment and under good lighting so they can continue their natural cycle to then later be brought outdoors after all danger of frost.

Growers have hoophouses and I've worked in the nursery business for several years and what they do on unseasonably warm days is open both ends of the houses so that it doesn't warm up inside. However, if their plants begin growing before last frosts, they too bring their plants to heated structures.

As for large containers like the wooden boxes, I wouldn't worry about those being above on a deck. It's the combination of wind and air temperature that can reak havoc on the buds and stems of Japanses Maples.

Don't use any anti-dessicant products such as 'Wilt Pruf' - they can do more harm than good.

My buddy has a bright halogen light in his garage and when plants start arriving and for his other potted plants in early spring, he uses this light to help them get through until his weather is in sync with what the plants are doing.

That should help.

Dax

I have done alot of research on light and it's effects overwintering dormant trees ...and sadly there is not much out there most don't have that "luxury" anyway as dax states most growers have cold frames for overwintering...I think dax's experience is correct they will do fine in total darkness as long as dormant and that should help keep them dormant lONGER unless prolonged hot spell. The only thing I could find was in a blog by some Bonsai folks that stated light after it goes dormant is not necessary.... my experience last year in total darkness mirrored Dax's no problema...
I am also going to experiment with a couple of my cold storage ones and bring them out while dormant in Mid to late March if they still hacen't broken bud which I doubt ( this theory will not be proved if we have another stupidly warm march)...By that time mid mid to late March we are past any super cold weather.the stuff the really wreaks havock on some JM's..and the expected weather should let them develop naturally like the in the ground ones ( as potted ones do) but have had protection during the worst part of winter ...Now this is NOT for those kept inside that have a reputation for early bud break (Katsura) but rahter for the more "normal" varieties not subject to late frost ..I see NO reason this won't work and would time the trees better with nature and keep you from constantly moving in and out from early bud break ( as said it will get hot in most garages from sun early and need to be brought in and out after a certain point hopefully ltr than I plan to move a few out)... I will let you guys know whether it works but theoretically it should..David

I might ADD I would not do this with young grafts ( put out early)...I fudged a bit on the subject ...I am talking about older established plants for that experiment.

I really don't recommend folks buying young grafts around here if they are not experienced growers ...but I can say my last years new grafts ( grafted not purchased from west coast!!) were frozen solid for a long period in total darkness and did fine in the spring... I think Dax is correct it is NOT just cold a combo of wind cold sun and I might add how much late growth they have had before the heavy killing frost freeze (ie: west coast stuff!!)!!etc....and although I would never recommend buying such young grafts for overwintering here on a porch or outside protected as some growers try to convince you to do to get a sale I do think they should do ok for you...but it is "more" chancy!! David

Well, we cleaned out the garage (that needed to get done anyway, so thanks for the push!), and I moved the six maples to an ancient desk left by a previous owner at the back of the garage. Since it will be above freezing for the next few days, I watered everyone and drained water from the dishes. The garage has two windows, so the maples are not in total darkness. There are also two bulb sockets in there, I purchased full-spectrum bulbs in case they break bud before all chance of frost is gone and need some extra time in the garage. We don't use the garage much, storage for gardening supplies and boats, so the temps will probably stay warmer and more even than on the backporch, which was constantly opened and closed for the dogs to go into the yard. I'll make sure to open it up on really unseasonably warm days so it does not get too warm in there. If anything breaks bud from this week's unseasonally warm weather, I'll move it into the basement and figure out something for better lighting.

I know (now) that purchasing the young grafts was chancy. Three were only available as 1-year grafts (Ariadne, Jerry Swartz, Beni schichihenge), the other three were advertised as 2-3 year grafts (Emerald lace, Ukigumo, Murasaki kiyohime). Prices varied from $24 to $37, with most being in the middle. Shipping was very expensive - about 1/3 of the total cost, but everything was very well packed. At the time of my purchase, in early September, I thought that I was choosing zone-hardy trees that would be okay on the back porch all winter. When I originally emailed the grower my questions with possible selections (I changed my mind several times), he said everything would be fine in 5a. After more research, I realized that two of the selections would absolutely die in an Iowa winter. Everything arrived going into dormancy in mid-October, so I'm not too worried about excessive late season growth.

So far, the six "babies" were kept only on the back porch, so never exposed to wind, other than opening the door to let the dogs in the yard. Other than 3-4 days around New Year's, we didn't have any extremely cold weather. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that nothing died. The only one that does not look so hot right now is the Ukigumo, everything else looks pretty good. But, I didn't think it looked very hot when I planted it, and the root ball seemed too small for the size of the tree (1 stem about 2', one stem about 8"). Looking at pictures of mature plants, I kind of would not be heartbroken if this one bites the dust. Is that horrible to say?

Honestly, if the Murasaki kiyohime lives, and everything else dies, the purchase would have been worth it. The Murasaki kiyohime was advertised as a 2-3 year graft, but it has to be older than that. It has gorgeous form - still had some of its leaves when it arrived in mid-October, and it had the largest root ball of the bunch by quite a bit. Not a lot of JM's in local nurseries, just the very common varieties and outrageously expensive at that. Something similar to the Murasaki kiyohime, but much more common, would have run around $250 for me. So, I was stuck mail ordering one way or the other. This grower had 100% positive feedback on the davesgarden.com watchdog site, so I took a chance.

The Jerre Swartz also looked very vigorous as did the Ariadne. The Beni schichihenge had the smallest root ball of the bunch but it has not dried up. Everything had a solid month on the back porch before we had any freezing weather, so I'm hoping that gave them enough time for root growth to get established. Not sure if I said this, but the back porch is totally enclosed.

Here is one question about my Murasaki kiyohime: it has one 1 1/2 inch or so part of the tip of one branch that looks brown and dried up, whereas before the very cold I don't remember that brown piece. Should I trim this, or just wait for spring to see whether it really is a dead end? Is this "die-back" from the cold? Might I possibly do more harm than good if I trim it? Am I completely paranoid?

Thanks,
Elizabeth

David

I hope you are not experiencing any difficulty with the new grafts that I sent you last summer.

It is my belief that simple instructions are followed; even newly grafted plants will have a huge success rate of living. I find that most people over handle a plant and I guess you can say they kill the plant with kindness.

I would truly be interested in knowing the outcome of the new grafts come this spring.

Dave