best lilies for alkaline soil?

17 years ago

I recently found out that my yard has fairly alkaline soil (pH 7.6). What types of lilies do best in alkaline soil? And is there any chance that orientals would be happy in pH 7.6?

Thanks for any advice.

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boisenoise

9 years ago

I know this is a very old thread, but I also know that people searching for info find old threads as helpful as new ones, so . . . just wanted to comment that, several years later, my szovitsianum/ monadelphum lilies are still alive and well in my sandy, alkaline soil.

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Comments (7)

hld6
17 years ago
Hi Janet,
Most lilies prefer mildly acidic soil, including Orientals. That said, modern hybrids are pretty tolerant plants. While I haven't tested my soil I plant lilies right next to my home's foundation (generally a "no no" for plants that have a strong preference for acidic conditions like azaleas) and they do fine.

You can help your lilies by amending the soil with a LOT of peat moss before planting them. This will also improve drainage which lilies like. Give them the other things that make lilies happy (4-6 hours of direct sunlight) and they should grow fine.

You can also mulch the bed with pine needles in the Fall.

If you want to grow species lilies you'll have to be more careful. Some are VERY fussy about garden conditions while others are pretty tolerant of the non-ideal (such as Lilium Regale).

The only lily I'm aware of that actually PREFERS alkaline conditions is Lilium Candidum (the Madonna Lily). Maybe the other species related to it (L chalcedonicum and L monadelphum) also prefer basic soil (I'd have to look it up). But none of these are lilies you want to start with since they can be difficult to get going.

-Helen
mamoo_z5
17 years ago
My ph is in the range of what you have. I use peatmoss when planting them to amend the soil. I grow all kinds of lilies & daylilies & they all do find. Some times a new one will take an extra year to settle in & bloom but they all do fine & bloom great. Just plant what ever you like. When it comes to the Orientals I do give them an early spring fertilizing with 1 tsp to a gallon of water of MirAcid just to help them out a little & they bloom fine.
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regardless of what the stats say on the soil maps, Strawbs, I can definately say my soil is alkaline - not as much as yours but rhodies and azaleas are a distant memory from my northern childhood - our black silty fen soil is top class for cabbages, celery and onions and sugar beet. Anyhow, unfortunately, I am not much of a guide to soil ph and roses since this is an issue which rarely comes up - at least not as much as mildew, rust or blackspot. The only dodgy roses (chlorotic, needing regular sequestrene) I grow have had too close a brush with rugosas - and one of my only Austins, Wild Edric is definately a pale and pasty specimen....although Compte de Champagne comes awfully close and I couldn't say what its parentage is. Annoying, as the rugosas are generally happy with well drained, sandy soil (I am on calcareous grassland. Of course, I do not have the extremes of temperature that you have so I have been able to adopt a blase attitude to ph as it is practically impossible to actually kill a rose here. Nonetheless, not dying is emphatically not the same as thriving - there are roses which are doing considerably better than others. I did expect china roses would be a bit feeble but have surprised me with their general willingness to grow and bloom - Sophie's Perpetual, Mutabilis and Sanguinea have been stars. Even more surprising, the infamous bourbons do well for me too. I would have to say that the majority of my roses are species or close hybrids although I have a weakness for Harkness floribundas. I am incredibly fortunate in that Beales and Trevor White (2 out of 3 old rose growers in the UK) along with Harkness and Legrice are based in East Anglia with similar soil and climate conditions as myself....and fervently believe that this conflation of conditions has a whopping bearing on the subsequent health of the rose once it is planted in my garden so I think you are right, Strawbs, in pondering specific nursery circumstances before considering buying from them.
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SouthCountryGuy, I'm in your position, added to which is slick, grey clay. You could make clay pots out of my soil, no lie. I did all of the above suggestions, and still have isolated problems to which I throw sulphur and if really desperate (my grapes), Ironite. But it doesn't solve the problem completely. When I plant more roses, I just rope my husband in for some serious digging. I try to dig up a LOT of soil around wherever I think the rose-roots could possibly grow in the future, and just amend, amend, amend. For beds, I just dig up whole swathes, and I make sure to amend many months before roses go in, to give the sulpher time to work in the soil. After planting, I amend some more. Sometimes it's all I do! The good news is that I've read that clays contain more potential for health than acidy soils. I don't know if it's true (I've only been a rose nut for three years now), but I'm hoping it is, and so far so good! NaCl here is still a problem in the groundwater and sometimes percolates out of the soil after a gully-washer. I don't know any other way of dealing with it but amend, amend, amend. But out of about 2 dozen antique roses I have so far, only one is looking sad (winter damage, but recovering), so, for the time being, Randy and I must be doing something right.
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Mike, I also thought that way the first 2 times I tested epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) solution. I expect it to be acidic with the sulfate - I was completely surprised by the alkaline result. I tested it the 3rd time yesterday, again alkaline. I tested it the 4th time today with a higher concentration of epsom salt, the result is clearly alkaline. Try it yourself by boiling red cabbage for 10 minutes, and test it with vinegar (pH at 2.4 to 3.4), peat moss (pH at 3 to 4), baking soda (pH at 8.2), then compare the greenish/purple baking soda with epsom salt solution, you can see how greenish and alkaline epsom salt is. I have on my kitchen counter 5 test tubes of only purple cabbage juice, bright pink/red solution (only a few drops of vinegar), calcium citrate (same color as the control red cabbage), baking soda (greenish purple), and epsom salt (greenish purple). When the litmus paper is wet, it's hard to differentiate the ranks of color. Red cabbage juice is easier to read, and you can detect the color better. Before doing the experiment, I spent a long time googling what others report regarding pH of epsom salt: some reported neutral, some reported alkaline, but none reported acidic - I tested epsom salt to prove that it's acidic with the sulphate, but I was surprised by the 4 results (twice with litmus paper, and twice with red cabbage juice).
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I have the same conditions only a little further north than you. I would never let the Hoopsii be the only blue spruce. Scatter some others around and tie the color theme together. I have 9 different cultivars of P. pungens in my yard and it isn't much bigger than yours. I have a 1/2 acre lot but that includes the horse barn and corral out back. Use one or two globes and perhaps a columnar blue spruce. I love 'St. Mary's Broom'. I have Picea pungens 'The Blues' and love it's weeping form. It will never get too big. I have a pendula out front and a little P. pungens 'Blue Pearl' in the same bed echoing the color theme as an accent. There are also a number of cultivars of P. omorika that won't get too big for your yard. Check out Coenosium Gardens web site for a wealth of ideas for the smaller yard. Much of what you find there will not be found locally though. You should be able to find what I mentioned above except perhaps 'Blue Pearl' or 'The Blues' Picea abies has an almost endless range of sizes and forms. I too covet the Skylands but have been afraid to give it a try with our dry heat in the summer and burning sun. If you try it I would certainly put it in an area where it isn't going to get full sun at least while getting established. I have put a P. abies 'Gold Drift' under a globe willow that will eventually come out -in hopes that it can get established in the shade and then show off it's gold color after the willow comes out. There are also some golden junipers that would work for you. The northern Utah nursery that I have found to have the best selection of the less common conifers is Alpine Gardens in Perry (south of Brigham City) but that is also a little hit and miss.
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boisenoise
17 years ago
Janet, I think most of the new hybrids aren't so fussy about alkalinity, but I have had trouble growing Oriental lilies because of ph (I live in the desert, and have sandy, alkaline soil), so I did some research and decided to try growing lilium monadelphum. I have also seen this referred to as lilium szovitsianum . . . not sure what the difference is. It is native to the Caucasus mountains, and I thought it might do well here . . . and it does! :) It was slow to get to blooming size because I had ordered tiny seed-grown bulbs from Arrowhead Alpines, but it has been blooming very nicely for the past few years and is very pretty and easy-care. Hope this is helpful!
ilijasx
17 years ago
Lilium candidum (Madonna Lily)... loves the chalky alkaline soils. The harsher the better.
leftwood
17 years ago
Agree with all that has been said. Since the pH scale is logarithmic, and you are near the neutral point, it won't take that much to lower your pH to neutral anyway. Candidum is an odd lily out, and should not be planted in fall. Mid-late summer, if I remember correctly, is the right time.

Szovitsianum and monadelphum are separate species, but very similar and lime tolerant. Especially monadelphum doesn't like to be moved as a mature bulb. According to literature, szovitzianum is the easier to cultivate, but I suspect there are also eyewitness anecdotes in dispute. Don't expect the vigor of hybrids from any species. They usually take a bit longer to mature.
leftwood
17 years ago
Also Lilium amabile, an easy to grow species, prefers alkaline soils.

best lilies for alkaline soil?

boisenoise

Comments (7)

hld6

mamoo_z5

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