EO, I just recently discovered that our very small town offered free compost to all its residents. I was told that it was basically leaves and grass clippings. When I went to get some of the stuff, it looked like black dirt, very soft crumbly. Also full of not decomposed stuff like pine cones, rocks, plastic bags, etc. I got a couple 5 gallon bucket fulls to try it out. Too soon to really tell if it is going to make any difference. But a couple of things I noticed: no smell...don't they always say that finished compost smells sweet? Also no earthworms or other signs of life. Also in the one bucket that I didn't use right away, tons of weed seeds sprang up. Shouldn't the high temps of the pile burned them all off? Any thoughts?

Some of this refers to seed crops so the addition of chemical fertilizer is not necessary at all, and the point about inoculants is not necessary in our perennial gardens, BIG BUTT the fungi is important and can be interfered with by chemical fertilizers.

The other big point I get from this is healthy and disease resistant.

Further reading below.

The meaning of the word 'rhizosphere' has evolved from a limited definition to describe a narrow zone of intense bacterial activity around plant roots, to a broader one referring to the zone of soil surrounding the root which is affected by it. The zone is characterized by the concentration gradients which occur both in a radial and longitudinal direction along an individual root. Interac-tions between crop root and rhizosphere are beneficial to crop production through increase in bioavailable soil P, N-fixation, and production of antimicrobial compounds that inhibit the growth of pathogens. Clearly, the goal in the management of the rhizosphere is to maximize the balance of its beneficial effects on sustainable crop growth.

Efficient nutrient application/fertilizer management. Over application of chemical fertilizer can result in considerable decreases of micro-organism population and friendly insects, crop susceptibility to disease attack, acidification or alkalization of the soil or aggravation of soil physical properties, and pollution of water resources through leaching causing irreparable damage to the overall system.

Use of organic fertilizers and bio-fertilizers. Organic farming has become popular due to consumer concern with human health and the environment. Using organic fertilizer, the nutrient supply is more balanced, which helps to keep plants healthy. Among the beneficial effects of organic fertilizer includes: enhancement of soil biological activity;
enhancement of colonization of mycorrhizae; improved root growth due to better soil structure; and slow release of nutrients which contribute to the residual pool of organic N and P in the soil, reducing N leaching loss and P fixation.

Likewise, soil micro-organisms play a significant role in regulating the dynamics of organic matter decomposition and the availability of plant nutrients such as N, P and S. It is well-recognized that microbial inoculants constitute an important component of integrated nutrient management that leads to sustainable agriculture. In addition,
microbial inoculants can be used as an economic input to increase crop productivity; fertilizer doses can be lowered and more nutrients can be harvested from the soil.

On the other hand, biofertilizers help with the expansion of the root system and better seed germination. A healthy plant usually has a healthy rhizosphere which should be dominated by beneficial microbes. The production technology for biofertilizers is relatively simple and installation cost is very low compared to chemical fertilizer production. Some of the innovative biofertilizer technologies presented in this workshop include: indigenous microbes (IMO) and enzymes from natural farming technology, effective microbes (EM) and arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF), vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (VAM), and planting of vetiver grass to generate more roots and biomass.

Here is a link that might be useful: Further reading

Shouldn't the high temps of the pile burned them all off? Any thoughts?
trillium

Don't take this as a smart question, do you have weeds sprouting at your place. Weed seed is designed to be blown around, weeds are needed to populate a damaged area such as volcanic eruption killing everything. Weed seed blows in and begins the process of repopulating an area then perennials and trees finally to a forest or meadow.

Mercifully, finally my point; weed seed blows everywhere and you should expect to find them in anything.

No noticeable smell to that earthy smell is good, even a little unpleasant odor is not a problem. What you should be concerned about would be the compost smelling like ammonia and that can usually be taken care of by spreading it out. The ammonia is anaerobic bacteria that will change to aerobic as soon as it gets air.

At our compost facility we did not accept plastic bags but that to is not a big problem except appearance.

"Extensive researches on soil-rhizosphere processes have shown that a very small proportion of rhizosphere soil is of critical importance for plant growth and health. The soil-rhizosphere zones occupied less than 5-7% volume of the upper 15 cm surface soil in a perennial bed

The take away is; it is only this relatively small area around the roots that is involved with plant uptake of nutrients. The big fancy planting hole doesnt matter, it is the area immediately surrounding the root (rhizosphere)

"The innovative Starter Solution Technology (SSTi) for applying nutrients directly to the soil-rhizosphere system is proposed in this paper. The SST reduces fertilizer application, increases plant growth, decreases fertilizer residues in the soil and is simple to apply."

These starter solutions are formulated for significant crops such as corn or beans.

"It also enhanced the release of nutrients from organic composts. An application of 7.2NÂ6.2PÂ6K kg ha-1"

It seems that the addition of good organic compost that does not include what you might find in a bag at a big box called "Organic Humus", adding a small amount in the planting hole at planting will help. A large amount will not help because the hosta root will not be able to access this "Starter Solution Technology" until probably the 2nd year. This takes to task my previous position that there is nothing of value that can be added to the planting hole. Now I believe that a small amount of good organic compost would help. Compost from a municipal compost facility should be the best one can find unless you found someone really doing serious "tested" compost. Having added the best compost one can find apply organic matter to the surface where it will compost for a year in place and be taken down to the rhizosphere.

This rhizosphere can be seen in the photo, not the best photo but the fuzzy stuff around the root is the rhizosphere.

Thanks, EO, for the quick answer. I read through your post and through the further info in the link...interesting if somewhat complicated (at least to me). I understand enough though to know that top dressing is a good idea...which I am really glad for because it seems like a lot less work than a lot of other things...Is it you or Ken that always says that's the way mother nature does? Put it on top and it will gradually find its way down...I have one question from the summary of the link that you provided...what do they mean by low quality compost...I use whatever I can get my hands on and feel glad for whatever it is.

E. O.,
How interesting! I have learned a lot about oxygen and water from you. Now it is time for my third lesson. I know that from your past position that you are an expert in this field. What is the best compost? I use leaves and lawn clippings and will somtimes, sprinkle Osmocote or even stale beer on it. I have added manure to it also. Is there a proven mix for the best compost? Are the fomentioned nutrients in compost or must they be added? What is the truth E. O.?

Denny

Trillium,
Compost is very much a product of time, and of course input. It is very hard to get the numbers mentioned "7.2N6.2P6K kg ha-1" referred to as "Starter Solution Technology" in compost.

These numbers are for seed crops or short term crops so don't worry to much about the numbers. Just use compost from the most diverse input such as a yardwaste compost facility, varied input will lead to a better chance that you have the micronutrients mentioned. AND most soils have the micronutrients.

Now to low quality compost, something from a simple input such as composted horse manure will be good but probably not have the numbers to qualify as SST which is a combination of inputs to get to the numbers that have been determined to work best with a specific such as tomatoes or corn, etc. AND they have to make it work right now this season and don't enjoy the time we have with a perennial garden.

Look at a field or forest, who fertilizes them, God will take care of it if we add organic matter.

Denny, "What is the best compost?"
Truly you give me more credit that I deserve. Now to the question, whatever is cheap and varied as possible. Everything you are doing and have is great except the Osmocote that was developed for pot culture and very expensive for the soil, BTW beer is great as well as soft drinks.

"Is there a proven mix for the best compost?"
The expense of composting is much greater than someone outside the business could understand and everyone assumes it is all free so the selling price is held down. I made an effort to seek out a varied input but that can't always be controlled.

"Are the fomentioned nutrients in compost or must they be added?"
They would test the compost then add to reach the numbers, doing this in volume for a short term crop can work but not for something like hosta and it hasn't been studied so one must guess. Add as many things as you can get your hands on, mulch, manure, coffee ground, grass clippings, anything that will decompose and throw it on the surface.

Is this more than you wanted to hear?

E. O. ,
As a matter of fact I do have another question.
Many people with Hosta have chosen them because of shady conditions. Is it possible to have an effective compost heap, bin, etc. without direct sunlight on it? I know that many of the store bought, commercial composters include "place in direct sun for best results"in their directions..Is this a light factor or a heat factor? Directions are vauge at best. I guess my question is... does it require direct sun to make good compost?

Thanks,
Denny

"does it require direct sun to make good compost?"
Denny

Compost is done by micro-organisms which creates heat, "composters" are like hosta collectors or any collector that take what they do very VERY seriously. Compost people talk at great length about how fast they can compost and heat helps unless you have to much heat. Speed doesn't matter in the end, time/organisms/air/moisture do.

If you pile up organic matter and walk away it will compost, if you turn it for aeration and water for moisture you will get a good compost faster. Left alone it will compost with time, if it is to deep it may become anaerobic and be a problem short term. Now it becomes anaerobic in 6 months, turn it and wait another 6 months or leave it alone for 2 years and it will right itself.

Or put it on the ground fairly thin 6-12 inches deep called sheet compost and it will finally decompose and be fine. The advantage of sheet composting is everything composted will be in the soil where you want it instead of running out of the compost pile. Everyone knows how well things grow around the compost pile, nice but I want plants to grow well where I plant them.

The value of commerical composters is speed, beauty, space-saving and making usuable compost quickly. If you have a need or want a composter get it, turn it, follow directions and it will make compost.

E.O.,
Ok, now I know where to place my compost bin . I know to turn it for oxygen and water it to speed up the process. My next question is.... What should I NOT put in my compost pile? Are some things detrimental to breakdown?

Denny

Large pieces of anything especially wood breakdown slowly, most don't compost meat which is, also slow but it will decompose in the end. Sawdust is great but watch the nut family, walnut etc that may have a bad effect on certain plants.

Many poisonious plants will be broken down in the compost process such as Angels trumpet plant. Poison ivy, oak, sumac will eventually break down but the turning in a turner will release the Urushiol and you may inhale or get it on your skin.

Most printed paper is safe because lead based ink is seldom used especially newspaper.

There will so few things to worry about that putting any that concern you in the garbage will not contribute any volume to landfills. If your not sure put it in the garbage.

EO -

Parts of my yard are wooded and never raked - leaves fall and decompose in place -

Often I've moved the top leaves over and scooped up the black gold underneath and amended soil as I've planted -

This year I've put a few shovelfuls around a few of my faves - topdressing, I suppose -

You talk about the value of varied inputs to compost - what about using what this lazy gardener finds on the woodland floor?

Go back to the section on fungi, very important bringing phosphorus to the plants are not a prolific out side the forest so the forest floor duff is a good inoculant.

As you move from the surface into the soil each level is sort of decomposed by different organisms so putting forest floor duff into a hole may interfere with the process. Not so bad but going to the trouble to incorporate may have no value. If you place it on the surface the soil organisms will sort it all out and get the right thing to right place without your help.

Not hard to understand because that is how it happens everywhere in the world without our help.

One little myth propagated by the "Victory Garden" is building a soil, they double dig and mix this and that then they take a hand full squeezing it proclaiming it has a good crumble effect. Soil organisms excreting a sticky substance that holds the soil together and gives soil that earthy smell creating the crumble effect. They are not punished because they are mostly doing a seed crop area, which is much different from our perennial gardens.

Many go to great effort "preparing" the soil then the soil organisms sort it all out and the plants prosper in spit of our fumbling around, if may be slower than it would have been but the soil and plants are very forgiving of our intrusions. Finally the plant does well and we report that we did this or that and it worked well believing we caused the growth.

I swear I start out to give simple answers and always seem to build a watch. Oh well, humor me Im old.

Simple answer; yes forest floor duff is good.

Thanks, EO -- makes life easier on old shoulders!