Ah, I missed the point. A clarification: 'stay' on top of the soil, in that (using my example) those nutrients are not 'leaving on the truck' like they would with a cash crop. No, they'll stay right there, on the lawn. While staying right there, they're susceptible to washing away, or leaching, or just staying there. But the point is, what you don't need at that point is to be adding more. While it's not true that every speck of excess (more than the lawn crop will use) phosphorus will wash away (or leach), it is true that the creation of the excess is what allows, even causes, the problem. So we don't need to be adding more phosphorus. There's enough there, right now, on that lawn.

Bringing this back up for consideration. We have enough interested members that Retreat will take place! We would love to have more join us!!! Remember that this year it is a holiday weekend which hopefully will help with travelling. (Columbus Day holiday-US, and Thanksgiving-Canada) We generally leave camp around lunchtime on Sunday (either eating first, taking a bag lunch with us, or we could plan not to have their lunch at all), but we could actually stay all afternoon if we wished. We currently have coming for sure: Toolgranny-Linda Jennifer in VA Teresa_nc Sunnycntralfl-Gwen & Rob Grammyp-Beverly & Tim Faye, Fran & Rosa have all expressed interest as well. Please email me with confirmation in you'd like to attend and I'll send my address for the deposit. Jennifer

I have never pruned it. Prior to the last two summers, the new growth always came in abundance, enough to feed all the Polys with no worry. The last two winters, I have had it die back so that all I had was new growth and even though lush and grew fast, it was eaten back by mid summer. Last summer, I had to pull cats off by the dozens and take them to friends who had vine, mostly in the shade, where the Polys hadn't laid eggs. This winter dieback wasn't as bad and I have lots of vine but by the numbers I have been seeing this week, I fear I will be in the same situation if I don't pull off the eggs, at least off and on all summer. As far as cutting it back, I would try feeding it heavily first - with a granular fertilizer. With it being so dry, the liquid stuff is getting washed out so quickly with the watering that is needed. Mine really flushed out about a month ago when I did that. Mary

Over fewer years than I like to admit, I've seen far too many old roses disappear from the old cemeteries, and even old homes. Paula's right. Those places won't be the refuges they once were, and you know -- once something is gone -- it's gone. The best hedges against extinction, I think, are shared knowledge, and distribution of plants. And those are the thing old rose groups can do. Jeri Jennings National Convener, Heritage Roses Group