I found this thread by googling daylily rust, but I can't find it when searching within GW? So sorry about the format but wanted to bump it up to refresh memories.

Nancy, How is the nickel working? I really want to try that if it is for you. How often & what PPM if so. Are you using Headline too?

Gonna check into Kphite too...what a great thread!!!

Return to the Daylily Forum : Post a Follow-Up

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Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Mon, Oct 16, 06 at 19:07

Since receiving many newer daylilies in the past few weeks, I have already encountered some rust for the first time. I soak them in daconil and banrot when I get them, and cut them way down. After seeing some rust spots I again cut them way down and now I need a systemic fungicide. I'm thinking about buying some Heritage. Can someone give me an online source for it and maybe others too? Thanks for your help.

Follow-Up Postings:

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* Posted by roberta_z5 z5 IL (My Page) on

Mon, Oct 16, 06 at 19:25

I don't know what zone you are in but if you are in Z5 or colder, you don't need to do a thing about the rust. Winter will do it for you. Fortunately, I have never seen rust here and even if it came and didn't die over the winter, I guess I would just live with it. Rust doesn't kill or even hurt daylilies. Makes them look bad, but that is all.

I sure wouldn't buy chemicals to try to kill it. Just remember --- you never kill just one thing. You just might kill the rust and then find out you killed beneficials that would have taken care of all sorts of other problems. IMHO

o

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Mon, Oct 16, 06 at 21:06

I agree that using chemicals is not desirable. In the south, zone 8 for me, rust is devastating if left uncontrolled. We either control it aggressively or give up much of our daylily enjoyment. I have a friend who had a large garden and it took over, leaving his garden virtually useless. Rust weakens them severely, and is not a cosmetic problem, but a very serious one.

So, Heritage or the equivalent, or I will have to give up daylilies. I have been able to stop rust from invading my garden even though I receive infected plants sometimes. Right now, it looks like I will get several plants with a few spots. So I cut them down and treat them...simple as that. I have never had rust return, but with a more serious invasion I need a more aggressive plan, just like all of the other serious growers do.

Not having rust is much more important to me than knocking my ecosystem out of whack. If someone could provide me with a source for the fungicide it would help alot...thanks. Otherwise I will eventually find it on my own.

o

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Mon, Oct 16, 06 at 21:39

In googling for heritage, apparently there is a toxic chemical in it and it may be a hazard. It is seemingly difficult to find, while Banner Maxx is available easily for $60 a pint. I don't know which to get. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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* Posted by jackarias 10 So.Calif. (My Page) on

Mon, Oct 16, 06 at 21:41

Daconil is a waste of money, don't bother with it. I've found Physan 20 works well and they say a 1% solution of Ultra Dawn dish detergent works well as a contact killer. You will need a good systemic in addition to the contact killer and I cannot help you there.

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* Posted by sweatin_in_ga (My Page) on

Mon, Oct 16, 06 at 23:02

I had my first case of rust this summer and the fungicides I was using gave it no more than a slap on the wrist. It came back fast and strong! Fortunately I was travelling in the area near Marietta Gardens about that time, so stopped in there. The Shooters showed me what they were using - - and said it worked well. Compass O is very similar in chemical structure to Heritage (it is a trifloxystrobin) - - and it is just as expensive! They also recommended Strike 50 (triadimrfon) as a complimentary fungicide to alternate with. An equivalent is Bayleton 50. One spraying with Compass O and the rust just about disappeared.

I am travelling on business this week and cannot look up where I got my products, but you can find both at www.hummert.com but be sure you have a lot of room on your charge card. From their main page, look up the product by its name in the search area, or you can go to their catalog at www.hummert.com/pdf/p1-47.pdf

I cannot remember which one says that using a spreader-sticker in useful, but one of them does say that. However, I learned the hard way that there is at least one of those products that eats up daylilies. Again, I cannot look at it in my shed right now, but when I used that fungicide the second time, I did not use a spreader-sticker since I didn't know the right one - - just the wrong one. I was very lucky to have someone advise me that it was a spreader-sticker problem, not a fungicide problem - - and they were right.

You can look up the various fungicides and what they are by chemical through the following web page: www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonlyres/FC1EC609-B31A-48CB-8438-475DB21DC8E9/24146/AppendixTradeNames.pdf

Using this web page will let you find which products are intercangeable.

Hope this helps - - it sure helped my daylilies!

o

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Mon, Oct 16, 06 at 23:20

Well, $300 plus shipping is alot for a fungicide plan, but that is for both Compass O and Strike to use alternatively. So, I have no problem doing that since I spent $3500 on daylilies this year. Thank you very much for the straight talk and the valuable experience you shared. I will wait a week or so before I place my order, but I suspect that is what I will do. I used to live in Ga, and sometimes I miss that red clay. Well, I'm not a big clay fan, and I remember not liking it much when I was there, but I still miss it now. It is driving distance to Florida so maybe I should go back! Stay in the shade.

Thanks for your input too Gary. I know its hard to ever recommend chemicals, but what are we supposed to do? I promise to first try to spray as little as necessary and avoid ruining the planet. Maybe the products will get old sitting on the shelf...I can only hope. My goal is to get rid of it while it is only a few spots and never actually have a rust problem.

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Tue, Oct 17, 06 at 8:01

Well, I have found out that there are two programs commonly used. One is Heritage with Thoroughbred sticker alternated with Bayleton50 and Dawn soap sticker. The other is Compass O alternated with Strike. I just need to know what sticker to use with the Compass program if I go with that. The sources for these chemicals do not seem to carry both programs, so I need to make up my mind which to use.

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* Posted by kydaylilylady z6 KY (My Page) on

Tue, Oct 17, 06 at 8:35

Personally if possible I think I'd check around my local agricultural outlets to see what they can offer, what they can get and their prices. You might find that they can give you a better price than internet. They may also be able to recommend some other products with the same active ingredients at much better prices. My local store was able to tell me that in the herbicide department

Fusilade II is the same as Fusilade DX, which is much cheaper than the Fusilade II. The only difference is that one is labeled for turf use, the other for agriculture use.

Janet

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Tue, Oct 17, 06 at 19:20

I am converting (not permanently I hope) from a largish garden area to a city yard...ouch. I don't really want to do the research to find out that anything I do is regulated by the government...and that breathing is against the ordinance if I do it wrong. I would like to let my personal standards dictate that I leave things around me unaffected. I would think that I make the world a little better, but that attitude will probably cost me some form of grief. So a small quantity of liquid dollars will be my only purchase at this location. The local thing is not the direction I am heading. I do hope to not even have to use the stuff very much.

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* Posted by flower_lover5 z6 IL (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 18, 06 at 2:58

By searching I found that B&T Grower Supply carries Compass O at a mere $225/8 oz.........ouch!!

http://www.growersupply.com/rootrotsoilb.html

Just looking at the ingredient, I would say it is in the same class as Headline & Cabrio (strobilurine).

Here's info I came up with when doing online research for daylily rust-fighting fungicides......which somewhat coincides with what sweatin_in_GA said. When I start my spray program next year, I will rotate one from the top list with one from the bottom list.

This is my plan - I have no experience with any of these!!!!

Bayleton 50 = Triadimefon 50% (triazole fungicide)

Strike 50 WDG = triadimefon 50.0% (triazole fungicide)

Banner Maxx = Propiconazole 14.3% (triazole fungicide)

other brands = Banner, Benit, Desmel, Orbit, Radar, Tilt, Fidis, Alamo, Spire, Practis, Bumper, Mantis, Restore, Taspa, Juno, Novel and Break

___________________________

Headline = Pyraclostrobin 23.6% (strobilurine fungicide)

Cabrio = PYRACLOSTROBIN 20% (strobilurine fungicide)

Compass O = Trifloxystrobin 50% (strobilurine ???)

Any comments on the rest of these?

I am also going to quote a post by rsts (Royce - who hasn't been posting much lately by the way) on what he said earlier this year:

Gerard, I am going to take a shot at your question and welcome comments by others. I had rust in 2004 and will tell you what I did. I was, and probably still am, close to paranoid about rust. I wanted to try to eliminate it, rather than just go on a spray program. First, I cut all plants back to 1/2 to 1 inch. You probably will not care to do this now because it might inhibit blooms this year. I did it after blooms.

For spraying, I used two contacts and two non-contacts. Use of two non-contacts is generally recommended, but some people only use one. I am not sure if it is necessary to use two contacts, but I did. Some just use a Dawn detergent solution for the contact spray. If you do not have a rust outbreak and are only spraying preventively, the contact sprays might not be necessary. I am unsure on this point.

I alternated Mancozeb and Daconil as the contact sprays. Both are in the $15 to $25 price range. One problem with the contact sprays is that to be effective they must "contact" the rust, which thrives on the underside of the foliage. I have difficulty getting adequate coverage on the underside surface, which is one reason I cut back the foliage so severely.

For the non-contacts, I made alternate applications of Strike and Cabrio. This gave me one chemical out of the sterol inhibitor and one from the strobilurin class of chemicals. It is my understanding that Strike has the same chemical as Bayleton 50 and is in the sterol inhibitor class of chemicals. Banner Maxx is also in the sterol inhibitor class. I used Banner Maxx and then switched to Strike. For some long forgotten reason, I thought Strike might be better than Banner Maxx. Don't know if it really is, or not. BTW, Strike is a powder.

I also used Cabrio, which has the same chemical as Headline and is in the strobilurin class of chemicals. I tried to find Headline, but at the time, the smallest container sold was 2 1/2 gallons and cost nearly $500. Headline is liquid and Cabrio is solid (powder?).

With regard to sources: Many Ag, or nursery supply places, will have Mancozeb and Daconil. The others are more difficult to find. Most of the Ag places were totally unfamiliar with Cabrio, but I did manage to find one place locally, that had it. I don't recall exactly the price, but think it was about $125 for 5 pounds. Both price and quantity might be off slightly, but is in the "ballpark".

B & T Grower Supply has Strike for $67.61 - URL is http://store.yahoo.com/btgrowersupply/strike.html

It is advertised for $58 in last year's catalog from CASSCO, toll free 1-800-962-1922.

I hope this info can help someone :)

Tammy

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 18, 06 at 8:15

I am leaning towards buying Compass and Strike from B & T, but I understand that I need to make the correct spreader choice. They have 5 products, and I hope one of them is the right one:

Turf Max

Phase 5

Capsil 30

Miller

Surf-AC 820

I am hoping that our helpful Georgia man can let me know once he makes it back home and checks his shed. Everyone has been very helpful, thank you.

o

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* Posted by roberta_z5 z5 IL (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 18, 06 at 9:14

Wow!!! If I had to go through all of that to eliminate a daylily problem, I sure would mow down my daylilies. I guess it is just whatever "floats your boat".

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* Posted by thechasman 6 SE Ohio (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 18, 06 at 11:52

I knew there was a reason I put up with Ohio winters...No Rust. Good luck with the rust battle. I'm glad I don't have to worry about it.

Charlie

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 18, 06 at 12:11

Yes, my good buddy Bob Faulkner is in the new daylily mecca in Ohio. No rust, no rot, no artificial growing mediums and environments. Dormants are preferred, and there is a sense of logic in the air instead of the heavy burden of the word "society" hanging over your head. If I lived in Florida where the growing season never ends I think I would put dirt in my pockets and carry daylilies everywhere I go. As long as I can drive my pickup and not a sports car I may end up in Ohio.

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* Posted by sweatin_in_ga (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 18, 06 at 20:25

I'm getting closer to Georgia - - one more night in Alabama and then a trip home on Thursday night! Can't promise I'll post until Friday since I know I won't be home before 9PM. Anyway, I know the product name but not the chemical make-up of the product. The product that caused my problem was Hy-Yield Spreader-Sticker which I have seen as the only spreader sticker sold at two or three garden centers in my area - - Augusta, GA. When I used this material, the newest growth at the center of a fan looked like it had spring sickness - - weak, wavy, stubby, stunted leaves. Some of the new growth actually died. While I have not lost any plants - - some of them are actually putting out new growth and getting back to normal (since we are still having temperatures in the upper 80's this week). However, a few of my one year old seedlings simply do not have any leaves at the center of the fan although the outer leaves are healthy. I'll have to wait until we actually have winter - - if we ever do - - and see what grows back next spring.

I'll get you the chemical name before the weekend so you can be sure that the one you choose is not that chemical. Whatever you choose, you might want to use it on a few daylilies first to make sure that there isn't a problem. I will say that you can use a stronger concentration of fungicide than is in the literature on the container without damage to the plant because I messed up and did that too! I don't know how much solution you are wanting to make, but measuring out quite a bit less than half an ounce is difficult if you don't have a laboratory scale. And yes, it was the BT Growers site where I bought mine. I just couldn't remember the name the other evening.

Larry

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* Posted by sweatin_in_ga (My Page) on

Fri, Oct 20, 06 at 14:34

The product I used was Hi-Yield (not Hy-Yield) and the chemical name is long enough to choke even a good organic chemist, but here it is: Alpha(p-alkylphenyl)omegahydroxypoly(ethylenoxy)phosphate ester of propylene glocol.

If they do not list the chemical components of the spreader-sticker's you are looking for, you might be able to find that by looking up the manufacturer's web site and seeing if they have a MSDS (materials safety data sheet) for that particular product because it will be on that document. And by law the manufacturer and/or seller must be able to provide a MSDS for each item.

Good luck and be sure to post the one you end up using because I want to have a good one ready for next year. I can hope that the outbreak was a one time occurance, but I doubt it will be. Once we get to the hot and humid part of summer, it is bound to turn up again. Hope this was worth the wait.

Larry

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Fri, Oct 20, 06 at 15:34

I don't want to use anything that has not been recommended. I think one of the products listed by B T will probably work, and Compass is what I would like to try, so maybe I can ask them what they suggest. I tried emailing a nursery that was mentioned but they have not replied. I am not surprised because it may not be prudent to state publicly what we use. In this area, Heritage is mostly used so I think it would be a good idea to try Compass, even though they may be about the same thing. Thanks for keeping me away from Hi Yield. I will keep in touch.

o

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* Posted by sweatin_in_ga (My Page) on

Fri, Oct 20, 06 at 15:43

I went ahead and looked up the items listed by BT Growers. Miller and SurfAc 820 are both ethlyene glycol derivatives. CapSil 30 is a modified siloxane. Phase 5 gives no information other than it is a pH indicator with surfactants to act as a spreader-sticker. Turf-Mark seems to be a marker so you can see where you have sprayed. Perhaps this particular product has something else in it, but no ingredients are noted in the MSDS.

Since I haven't used any of these, I don't know what to tell you. I guess I'd be concerned about other glycol derivatives, but that's just me. Maybe using a mild liquid soap solution like Dawn would be enough of a surfactant to do what is needed. Perhaps using an inscecticidal soap is a possibility. That way, your would get both a surfactant and an insecticide. Anyone out there familiar with using any of these products on daylilies or the various inscecticidal soaps?

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* Posted by flower_lover5 z6 IL (My Page) on

Fri, Oct 20, 06 at 16:17

Larry,

I used insecticidal soap early this spring on some potted daylilies that I had brought indoors during the winter. They were absolutely overrun with aphids, so I saturated them with insecticidal soap. It did NOT have any adverse affect on the daylilies at all. These were very tender, as it was all new "indoor" growth, so that should prove that insecticidal soap (by itself) is extremely safe & gentle on daylilies. I know many people use it on them (though it did not get rid of the aphids for me, so I had to resort to a stronger insecticide).

Tammy

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Fri, Oct 20, 06 at 18:30

I have been told Thoroughbred is one of the best stickers to use, and it is Alkyl arylpolyoxyethylene glycol. So, it seems that it may/may not be close to Hi Yield. This is all very confusing. But I do have a good referral. I would love to use some sort of soap, as has been recommended for Bayleton and Strike, but certainly there must be a good reason why I should use a sticker with Compass rather than soap or they would use it. I am going to order the compass I guess and try to find a sticker separately. I am having so much fun 8-).

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* Posted by plantdoctor 8 (My Page) on

Tue, Oct 24, 06 at 0:33

just joined garden web--but i can provide you with all recent info on fungicides for rust on daylilies---also what the ''big boys''-hybridizers are using---some of the previous postings are 'old' news--i will have e-mail on my member page when i find out how

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* Posted by tweetypye z8/SC Al. (My Page) on

Tue, Oct 24, 06 at 7:01

Welcome Plantdoctor, and I for one would love to know what to use, when to use it, and how much. After reading all the posts, and everything else I can find on the WWW, I am totally confused!!!!! Since you haven't gotten you email up yet, you can go to my page and email me if you like. I will greatly appreciate having some "light" shed on the subject.

TIA,

Jan

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* Posted by rsts Z8GA (My Page) on

Tue, Oct 24, 06 at 10:57

Plantdoctor, I don't understand why you need email on your member page to post the info. Why not just post it as a regular post as you did above?

I have rust again this year and am very interested in any new information you might have.

You are correct in that some of the information above is old. The information from my post, quoted by Tammy is from things I read in 1994. I have not seen anything significantly new since that time. So again, I am very interested in any new information you can provide. I expect many others are also interested in your recommendations.

Thanks.

Royce

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* Posted by highjack z6 KY (My Page) on

Tue, Oct 24, 06 at 11:35

Please do share plantdoctor. Many members of the GW keep this type of information in folders on their computer for future use/reference.

Welcome to the forum.

Brooke

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* Posted by byrdlady 7b NC (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 25, 06 at 8:24

Please include info on the number of days between spraying and when to start in the spring...... do you do it all through the summer or resume in the fall? This is a very popular subject but so many clubs and gardeners keep it a hush-hush subject! Thanks to everyone for being honest and open.

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* Posted by beachlily East FL coast (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 25, 06 at 14:34

I can tell you what I do in my garden down here in the rust belt. I'm in Volusia County, FL, where a lot of the big growers live. They have been very supportive and open to answering questions.

I start spraying in the spring when I see the first sign of rust. Usually the first spray is with Headline (using Ivory soap as the sticker). Ten days later, Bayleton (also using soap as the sticker). If the rust persists (it usually doesn't), a third spray ten days later--probably Headline. I follow this procedure about 4 times a year, but my growing season encompasses the full year. My DL never get frozen back, and they will grow throughout the winter. Rust is most common in the rainy, cool spring and then late in the fall. The fall outbreak is harder to control.

Anytime I find rust, I spray. Period. Usually two sprayings are enough to control it. I think my garden is being infected by a neighbor who doesn't spray at all and I'm the one who gave her daylilies!

Headline and Bayleton work well for me but Headline is the workhorse. Sometimes I use it twice in a row because it works so well. I also have Heritage, but found it isn't as effective as Headline.

o

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* Posted by tweetypye z8/SC Al. (My Page) on

Wed, Oct 25, 06 at 16:10

Beachlily: Where do you purchase these products? If you could send me an email with more in depth instructions, etc. I would greatly appreciate it. See my member page to send email.

Thanks so very much.

Jan

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Thu, Oct 26, 06 at 16:48

Well, for better or worse, I placed my fungicide order. Since I actually don't have rust...just plants sent to me on occasion, I don't think I need to go state of the art. If I ever do have a serious outbreak, I can upgrade. So that's a nice thought/illusion. I am going with Compass/Thoroughbred sticker alternated with Strike/soap sticker. I bought from BT and Estes. I now look forward to taking the threat of rust off my mind. Thanks everyone, and the very best of luck to all of you who have to fight rust. It is hard to picture my organic garden with strong fungicides, but if I seldom use it maybe I'm OK. May the force be with you.

o

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* Posted by beachlily (My Page) on

Sun, Oct 29, 06 at 14:37

My sympathies to those who stress so much about rust. It is no different than black spot on roses. Each type of flower has has pluses and minuses--bugs and fungus are common as grass but they usually don't send us over the top. Right now in FL, aphids are the curse. Oh well!

o

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* Posted by newyorkrita z6b/7a LI NY (My Page) on

Tue, Aug 7, 07 at 13:06

Just read this whole thread on rust down south. Bumping it up in case anyone has anything new to add, otherwise its just a great reference thread.

o

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* Posted by sweatin_in_ga 8 (My Page) on

Wed, Aug 8, 07 at 15:40

No new information, but a new observation or two and maybe a word of encouragement. Remember, I'm talking to myself as well as to you other Southerners.

(1) Be consistent: For those of us in the deep south, prevention should be the goal, not after-the-fact control. I've worked hard this year at keeping a regular spraying schedule and, if I do have rust I will see it first on the older leaves, so I try to keep the old, dying leaves removed from around my plants. I've also kept my newly purchased plants away from the established garden. One of the new plants showed rust already in May, and I have been extra-vigilant with it. I have not won that battle yet, but I am still fighting and at least keeping it at a low level.

(2) Certian cultivars are more susceptible than others: I isolated last year's outbreak of rust to one of three cultivars in my back yard. Two of those three were planted next to each other and the third one wasn't far away. By the time I was able to get it under control, all three were pretty well covered while other plants in the area had only a few spots. I have moved the plants farther apart and I have watched them closely this year. So far, so good, but it doesn't stop there. I hybridized with two of these plants last year. The very first spot of rust I saw this year was on a seedling cross of two of the problem plants from last year. I pulled up and threw away all three seedlings from that cross, and I did not use them at all this year. No sense making more rust-prone plants.

(3) Just because you don't see it doesn't mean you don't have rust: Its easy to get complacent. When you don't see rust, it is a lot easier to put off spraying because its just too darn hot outside or you have something else to do. You will likely pay for that!

(4) It ain't over 'til its over: Its always hot and humid in Georgia during the summer, but this week we are being reminded of just how hot it can be. Today it is 103 degrees and the humidity is brutal. Today's heat index is 115 degrees. The low temperature tonight might dip just below 80 degrees. You just don't even want to go outside. But these are the weather conditions that rust thrives in, so I will be spraying in a day or two. Even after the summer weather finally eases in the middle-to-end of September, rust will continue to be a menace here and throughout the south. You've got to continue with what you have been doing. Too bad the high temperature won't kill this stuff like the cold weather does!

I don't know whether I'll ever have a garden that is completely free of daylily rust, but as long ans I am able, I'll go down swinging rather than give up!

Larry

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* Posted by newyorkrita z6b/7a LI NY (My Page) on

Wed, Aug 8, 07 at 16:02

I grow roses and have over 150 of them. If I didn't spray in hot humid Long Island, I would have bare twiggs were all the leaves fell off from blackspot instead of my nice green rose shrubs. You have to spray systemics on schedule, not miss any spray dates, and not think to spray after you see a problem. Much easier to prevent blackspot than to try and cure it. Once the leaves show the fungus, nothing will make those spots and yellow go away although some systemics stop the halt and others can only protect new healthy leaves so it depends on what you use.

Daylily rust actually sounds much worse to me than having to deal with spraying roses.

o

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* Posted by xokientx z9TX (My Page) on

Wed, Aug 8, 07 at 21:01

You have my sympathies Larry. Rust has certainly changed the way I perceive gardening with daylilies.

I don't get any rust increase to speak of after it warms up, even during wet periods. I get rust in spring and again in the fall, when it is cool and wet.

It appears the trend now is to combine a contact with a combination of systemic fungicides. Systemics with different systemic actions or from different Fungicide Groups. Not sure how this will affect the rotation recommendations. Stratego is one such fungicide.

I am putting BannerMaxx with Cabrio and rotating with Bayleton 50.

I earnestly recommend someone in your zone to cut all your semi and evergreens back during the dormant period and start your spraying program. I have come close to a rust free season that way.

Best of luck,

Ed

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* Posted by naturecoastgirl z 8-9FL (My Page) on

Wed, Nov 14, 07 at 19:20

Simplton: I recently added Strike to my spray regimen and it's not done very well so far - I'm thinking it's me. Sometimes the calculations are a bit tricky, since the directions are for use in 1,000 gallon sprayers and I have a 2 gal. I'm not a math whiz, I guess. Have you used it yet, and if so, what dosage are you using? Also, what sticker? thanks,

Gail

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Wed, Nov 14, 07 at 19:53

What about organic solutions? What have you all tried from an organic standpoint? Has anyone tried Jerry Baker's tonics? If so, were they in any way effective?

Nancy

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Wed, Nov 14, 07 at 21:19

Gail, this story may seem very strange, but I had the exact same problem. I had to be creative to decipher the dosage. I know it must be my artistic perception, so there probably was a much better way.

I took the 8 oz bottle and dumped it on a large plate. I split the pile in half, from 8 to 4, then again to 2...all the way down to 1/25 oz per 2 gallon. It turned out to be the small end of a double end green miracle gro scooper (1/4 oz i think), but not quite to the top...just below level.

I use Dawn soap sticker. I have to tell you, it did not do the job very well for me. It seems to just be a balancer for my other fungicide, Compass. Maybe together it makes the Compass have have more effective longevity. I use Thouroghbred sticker with it.

I learned that some top growers spray every 10 days, while some spray every 5 days. I spray once a month. I do get rust outbreaks now. It appears that the industry has learned that none of the fungicides kill rust...only prevent spores from appearing. It helps your garden look better, and spread less. And it conceals your dilemma. How you feel about that...well there are multiple opinions.

I will be spraying twice a month from now on until I ship out all of my plants. I will have to tell people that on many of them I don't know if they are infected. I think maybe 10-20% of mine have had rust. I might be way off. Only way to tell I guess is stop spraying.

o

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Wed, Nov 14, 07 at 21:21

1/4 teaspoon is the right size, not oz. sorry

o

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 10:47

Has anyone applied a foliar spray with nickel? Did that work?

Nancy

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 12:08

In America, there is more money spent on daylilies than any other ornamental. Rust has impacted the major players so severely that I am betting they have a handle on the whole picture. Before rust, those gardens were strictly organic. Rust alone has changed all of that.

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 12:28

I understand from what I have read on the internet that nickel is very effective. I would like to know if any daylily nurseries, hybridizers or hobbydizers have used it.

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* Posted by katlynnlily 8b-FL (My Page) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 12:53

najoba, I have not used a foliar spray with nickel or Jerry Baker's tonics, so I can't help you. But if you decide to try either, I hope you'll post your results - good or bad. I have been wondering if anyone has used a 10% bleach solution as a foliar spray? We dip daylilies in such a solution to kill rust spores. So wouldn't this work as a foliar spray? And how often could you use bleach before it hurt the soil? It would certainly be cheaper than spraying fungicides. BTW, I love your word "hobbydizer"...clever.

Kathy

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* Posted by highjack z6 KY (My Page) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 18:35

Rust spores are the end result of the plants having rust. They are not the first signs you see when you are getting it, you already have it.

10% bleach solution will kill living organisms in the soil.

Bleach, Dawn or plain water will eliminate rust spores on the plants, but not in the plants. When conditions are appropriate, the spores will be present again.

Daylily rust is a different rust than any other rust. If Jerry Baker's tonics or nickel foliar spray would eliminate it, the deafening roar from southern daylily growers would be heard round the world.

I am sure on the AHS website you will find links to the most current rust information where you can learn the life cycle of the beast.

Brooke

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 20:34

Well, Ed warned me that if I didn't have rust in my garden, I would in the near future. He was right. I have one plant out of about 600 that has turned up with rust. Once the nights turned cool, with warm days, every plant was covered with a heavy dew by morning, and that's when rust reared its ugly head. Amazingly, it appeared on the largest, healthiest-looking new plant in the field bed, one that originated from a very highly regarded daylily nursery located in a rust-free area. I have gone over every other daylily plant with a fine tooth comb and nothing else is visually affected at this time. This misfortune has brought about my intense interest in the challenge of successfully treating daylilies plagued with rust.

I understand that I can spray, spray, and spray some more, alternating with this and that. That may be what I will do in the end, when I finally surrender to pricey chemicals. But being a persistent fool, I don't give up easily. I research in every e-nook and e-cranny. Just because the greatest Southern hybridizers haven't been able to eliminate rust, that doesn't discourage me from trying.

I find the theory that it may be a result of a nutritional deficiency quite interesting. Last night, the more I read about nickel, and how important it is to the plant's ability to utilize nitrogen, the more interested I became.

Today, I received an e-mail from a company in Georgia that sells the nickel foliar spray. In reply to my inquiry, this vendor indicates that nickel is a preventive and not a curative solution. There are quite a few interesting scientific articles on-line about the effects of nickel on plant nutrition and health.

So, that's why I wondered if anyone had tried remedies other than chemical fungicides, and what were the results.

Liquid kelp, an ingredient in Jerry Baker's anti-rust formula, should arrive sometime tomorrow. I will then have everything I need to mix and apply the solution. I should know soon whether or not it makes a difference.

I will definitely post the results of my experiments, whether they work or not.

This week in southeast Texas, we experienced a record-breaking 87 degrees, but Texas weather changes fast. Luckily, winter is around the corner. The impatiens in my hanging baskets were all drooping sadly today. We are having our first serious drop in temperature today and tonight. Hopefully, that will stop or slow down the progression of rust until spring.

Nancy

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* Posted by beachlily (My Page) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 21:18

I understand that Dan Trimmer (Water Mill Gardens, Enterprise, FL) uses a combination of nickel and Headline. I can call to verify if anyone's interested.

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 21:40

That would be great, beachlily. I am certainly interested in his source of nickel, and how he applies it.

Nancy

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* Posted by xokientx z9TX (My Page) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 22:09

Sorry to hear you have rust Nancy. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

Gail,

It looks like Strike has the same amount of active ingredient as Bayleton 50. I use Bayleton 50 at 3/8 teaspoon per 2 gallons water and include a tablespoon of Dawn Dish-washing liquid. Add the soap last. If you are spraying active rust, you might double the amount of Strike. Bayleton 50 lists a concentration for eradication and prevention. The 1/4 teaspoon would be closer to the prevention concentration.

Ed

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Thu, Nov 15, 07 at 23:21

Thanks for the offer, Ed. I will send you an e-mail.

Nancy

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* Posted by sweatin_in_ga 8 (My Page) on

Fri, Nov 16, 07 at 21:51

I've spent some time on the internet today and have a couple of comments...

Gail - here is a web site that might help with various measurements for small sprayers like all of us use - - www.bfgsupply.com/UserFiles/2008Catalog/7_CropProtection.pdf

Then look on page 323

Nancy and beachlily - look forward to your further comments regarding the product with nickel or any other "magic potion." I searched for agricultural uses of nickel several times and only found one or two articles dealing with nickel deficiencies in nut trees and one on an unexpected cure for a disease in river birch trees.

I read the comments above about seeing more results with Compass (trifloxystrobin) that with Bayleton/Strike. I would agree based on my experience in my garden.

I also read quite a bit about fungicides of all kinds. However I found a lot of conflicting messages. One that concerns me is that there are getting to be many cases of resistance to the strobilurin (strobin-type) family of fungicides. Wade, your comment that some growers you know are spraying ever 5-to-10 days goes totally against the instructions for use given by manufacturers of the strobins. Are they using the strobins every time? Of course, no direct comments given in the mfgr data regarding daylilies, but if use too frequently causes resistant strains of soy bean and grain rusts, why would it not be the same for daylily rust? Manufacturers suggest no more that two consecutive uses of any of these products (azo-, trifloxy-, or the newest one, pyraclostrobin), and a limit to the total number of uses in a year as they all function the same way and resistance to one means resistance to all. Hope the growers are not over-doing it and producing a newer, stronger strain of rust for us all to deal with! If interested, there is a paper by Dr. Paul Vincelli of the University of Kentucky about the benefits and risks with group of chemicals at www.aspnet.org/education/AdvancedPlantPath/Topics/Strobilurin/top.htm

Finally, there is an article from the Louisiana State University AgCenter about using "biofungicides" for rust control on daylilies. It looks at a few "biological or bio-rational alternatives" alone and in combination with Banner Maxx (propionazole). Some don't do much, but one might help or at least doesn't hurt, but I would sure like to see the same work done with a strobin chemcial since those seem to be the product of choice among growers today. If you are interested in that one, search "daylily rust biofungicides" because the web page is nearly two lines long!

Hope I didn't bore you too much, and its too bad that so little gets published (done?) that is aimed directly at daylilies. I guess they are not quite as important to the world economy as soy beans even though they might be to us.

Larry

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* Posted by simplton (My Page) on

Fri, Nov 16, 07 at 22:45

Larry, I don't know any specific information that would provide insight into what various people are doing. I just know that products are being rotated, so it may be with something new. I only know that the five day interval is based on using some product aimed at rust.

I am really starting to feel at home on the golf course. It seems to be calling for me to find a new passion. In the city, the old horses don't have pastures...they have golf courses.

o

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* Posted by petalpatsy TN7a (My Page) on

Sat, Nov 17, 07 at 1:22

Nancy, I don't have rust yet, but I've been very interested it's control and management from the (recent) start of my hobby. One thing I thought could be more emphasized regarding the common systemics in rotation now is that they are not 'true' systemics. They do not move DOWN from their point of absorbtion-only up. A true systemic moves up and down, but they seem a bit rare.

It will be important to spray very low, you see. It won't be enough to spray from above and let it drift down, but far better to spray the base of the fans, from all sides, and into the midst of the base. To my mind, this fact alone explains why rust is not eliminated in most gardens. The AHS recommends cutting the infected plants, and nearby apparently healthy plants, to the ground so perhaps this point is not so important. Or perhaps they should be dug out to expose the crown before spraying.

A recent link was posted about Kphite systemic fungicide in regards to controlling crown rot, and the first thing I noticed was the mention of Aliette (a true systemic, but made with aluminum---eek!)--and that Kphite was also a true systemic fungicide, moving up and down through the plant but made with potassium.

I have no idea whether Kphite would be at all effective against rust, but it seems worth investigation, especially as it's apparently used by southern hybridizers as a rot remedy. Kphite and Aliette also stimulate the natural immunity of the plants.

I suspect you may have already removed the leaves from your obviously infected plant. If not, be sure to wet them with some sort of contact fungicide to avoid spreading the spores as you bag them. Cut that plant to the ground. I also found a study pointing out that withing three days of inoculation, treating other plants with a contact fungicide merely wiped out the healthy, defensive population of beneficial fungi making rust more difficult to control.

Theoretically, the internal rust lives in the leaves alone, and a Japanese article claims that when the plants are cut to nubbins the regrowth will be rust-free. (I nubbined and bleached some of my new arrivals this summer and nothing died from it.) The thing is, rust is so widespread that reinfection seems likely. It's also possible that the first plant you notice with rust is simply the least able to defend against infection. There may be another plant with such a mild case, only a few pustules, that you've not noticed.

The AHS rust page also still recommends cutting nearby plants to the ground, even if apparently healthy. You find the rust page in the daylily dictionary, and it's consistant with most everything I've read.

Bear in mind, these are the ramblings of someone with zero actual experience-- I only wanted to be prepared, and I found it all quite interesting. The only plant I thought had rust, turned out not to have it. I had strange plans about potting it up and putting it into my freezer. LOL! That little wacko idea never got tested...so far.

Anyway, I'm feeling pain for you, and wish you good luck.

o

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* Posted by xokientx z9TX (My Page) on

Sat, Nov 17, 07 at 11:35

Speaking of Kphite. Here's a new study on effectiveness of bio-fungicides for control of daylily rust.

I just looked at the page on Daylily Rust at AHS and it contains some very good information. It links to the Daylily Rust Page by Susan Bergeron for additional information.

BTW, Susan B. has a Daylily Rust Forum, albeit not very active, which is available by invitation. If you are seriously interested in Daylily Rust and would like to be a member, petition Sue at her email address listed at the bottom of her Rust Page.

Ed

Here is a link that might be useful: Daylily Rust control

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* Posted by petalpatsy TN7a (My Page) on

Sat, Nov 17, 07 at 13:18

Thanks Ed, how satisfying! Yeah, I want it! ;)

o

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Sat, Nov 17, 07 at 19:53

Today, I sprayed the plant and cut it back, bagging all the leaves. Then I sprayed again. (Thanks, Ed, for your advice.) If I see that it is growing well, without any visible signs of rust, then I'll try Jerry Baker's formula for rust prevention. We'll see if that works.

Originally, only one fan was affected, but I noticed today it had spread to the rest of the plant.

I am a mother hen over these daylilies. I'm very sure there is no rust on any other plants, not yet. There's always got to be a first. They get inspected, groomed and weeded every day. They are #2 on my daily agenda, with my cup of coffee being #1. Me, the hot coffee and Miss Peaches (my toy rat terrier puppy) then head for the field bed every morning.

Now, I haven't forgotten about nickel, plant nutrition, or all the chemicals and biofungicides. Since we are on a water well, I am very cautious and slow to use anything that could affect our water supply. If I can't "fix it" with more natural methods, I will, of course, do what everyone else is doing to cope with the problem.

For those of you are interested in doing some on-line research, I'll share with you here a few things I ran across that might be of interest to you.

I'm not sure if you read the article by Bruce W. Wood and Charles C. Reilly of the USDA-ARS,Southeastern Fruit and Tree Nut Research Laboratory in Bryon, GA on Niakel and Plant Diseases.

There was a study with potted daylilies. The end result was that spraying with nickel twice within a 10-day period at 200 ppm reduced pustule formation by 90%. In outdoor beds, plants were cut back and new foliage was sprayed with a foliar nickel supplement 3 times at 10-14 day intervals. Thirty days later, those treated with nickel (or propiconazole) were nearly free of rust pustules. There was no apparent phytotoxicity.

In the Handbook of Plant Nutrition by Allen V. Barker et al, there are 59 articles on nickel listed in the bibliography.

You can also find an article on-line on tomato plant culture, where silicon is a factor in preventing the penetration of fungus hypha into plant leaf cells, making the plant more resistant to fungus attack.

Dyna-Grow.com offers some interesting products, including plant nutritional concentrates containing trace elements, such as nickel.

Obviously, nutrition also plays a part in helping to combat this plant disease.

I'll keep y'all posted on the plant and what transpires.

o

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* Posted by petalpatsy TN7a (My Page) on

Sat, Nov 17, 07 at 21:48

I'd like to read that study, but I'm having trouble finding it. Was it on-line?

o

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* Posted by najoba 8b (najoba@hotmail.com) on

Sat, Nov 17, 07 at 22:45

I had to dig a bit to find it again; see the link below.

I meant to mention in my earlier post that there was a very interesting article written by Melvin Wong, Department of Tropical Plant and Soil Sciences at the University of Hawaii, "Visual Symptoms of Plant Nutrient Deficiencies in Nursery and Landscape Plants."

In this article, he presents very helpful information on how to determine what nutrients are lacking by the condition of affected leaves or roots. I plan to keep this information as a point of reference. Let me know if you need the URL on that one, too.

Montana State University also has an article on-line, "Plant Nutrition and Soil Fertility," outlining the 17 elements essential for plant nutrition, and the differences in them. Understanding these differences will aid in effective nutrient management. It's in pdf format, and you can print the entire article, if you wish.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nickel and Plant Disease

o
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* Posted by ladylovingdove 8a Fort Worth Tx (My Page) on

Mon, Mar 3, 08 at 10:34

Bumping this up since it contains very useful information.

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