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Looking for rare types of rosemary (rosmarinus officinalis)

9 years ago

Hi, anyone have uncommon or rare rosemary cuttings to trade? I'm looking for ones that grow larger/upright instead of creeping, in zone 9b. Have lots of pepper seeds and unusual plants/herbs etc. will update my listing this evening but if you have any/are willing to trade please message me.

Oh, especially interested in any of the four that got the royal horticultural award, too. Thanks!

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Comments (11)

Hermitian
9 years ago
Tuscan Blue is outstanding for flavor and resilience. The plants and seeds Are widely available in SoCal.
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usatc
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks, I have just one type already; Tuscan!
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Zone rating is only one of many variables... some plants are genetically strong enough to withstand extremes that might kill a different plant of the same variety. Or, a winter in a given area can be much more damaging than normal in a given year. So, in essence, there are many factors involved... and nothing is really set in stone. Each gardening zone is comprised of many different micro climates, so different growers within the same zone can report very different results. Weather patterns can change, and there are really many factors to take into account. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the ratings for your plants... I would hate for you to lose them because you weren't. It's sometimes difficult to gauge a person's level of gardening expertise on the forum, but I'm glad to hear that you know. :-) Al's idea of covering them with a cardboard box for extra protection against any frigid drafts might help... although, it might be to the plants' benefit to simply invest in another light setup. And since your particular garage is a bit warmer than most, it's possible that you could winter such plants over successfully. The option is entirely yours. I winter over a lot of plants in a large unheated garage, but it gets closed when the plants go in, and doesn't get opened until early spring. I also use plastic baby pools to group the plants and keep them off the concrete floor. I'm talking about plants rated for my zone, though, which is 5b... a few are rated for zone 6, but not many. They spend their dormant period enclosed in the building, no frigid drafts or sudden changes in temperature. Anyway... it's a fine looking Rosemary! I've never had much success growing that particular plant. I always seem to get heavy infestations of spider mites before I notice, and the air in my home is so dry that they drop most of the needles.
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There are many varieties of rosemary, so are hardier than others. The crawling type is sometimes called "prostrate", I believe or Rosmarinus officinalis "Protratus". I have five bushes, all which seem to be winter hardy. Thank goodness, and it's one of my favorite herbs. I used to overwinter them, with success, indoors during the winter (the upside to that being that the house smelled wonderful!). But as I mentioned in another thread, since learning a neighbor left his in the ground without damage during the winter despite snowfall last year, I've left mine outside, and it's doing fine. So I guess it all depends on the variety of rosemary. I will say one of them is one I almost gave up on. And one I would NEVER buy again. You see them in the grocery stores around herb season. They're shaped, pruned, sort of like Christmas trees and are beautiful, but very hard to keep alive. I brought my home, and had nothing with trouble with it from the onset. It was extremely rootbound, and transplanting was not an easy task. And soon it started to show signs of dying out. I pruned it back, what I saw was dying, and just left it, and occasionally still watered it, and to my surprise, this year it sprung back and is beautiful and bushy. It has lost it's "Christmas tree" shape (a small sacrifice) due to the pruning I had to do, but it made up for it by putting out new shoots and filling out wonderfully. I was quite surprised. I almost gave it up for dead. Now it's one of my "go-to" plants for harvesting for cooking, it does so well in recovery.
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This is going to be long and I apologize. I am attempting to respond to most of the previous posts all at once to make it more concise. The correct name for the plant is Hill Hardy Rosemary Rosmarinus officinalis 'Madeline Hill'. It was named in honor of Madeline Hill by my father Tom DeBaggio in the late 1980's not by her. In the plant world it is extremely bad form to name something after yourself. And yes it is different than Arp which was introduced by Madeline after the town of Arp, Texas. The word hardy was used to identify it as a hardier form of rosemary and is part of the name. (most varieties are hardy to 15ºF or 20ºF in a well drained spot in the ground-although a few are barely hardy below freezing) . Therefore hardy should not be removed by reputable nurseries no matter what part of the country it is sold as seems to have been suggested. This would only cause further confusion, and believe me it is confusing, in the nomenclature. It is not patented. Even patented plants can be propagated for person use. There are no patent police for garden plants (although Monsanto does have their own "police" to enforce their patents with farmers-and they use them often). Most varieties of herbs introduced over the last century or more were chance sports or differences noticed by talented, passionate and devoted plantspeople who then named, propagated and shared/sold the variety. It is true that most introductions should have a description published in a catalog of some sort. Plantspeople are often not botanists and therfore do not have the techinical training to describe the introduction with the degree of botanical accuracy necessary to identify a plant in the field. Often only a general description of a particular virtue of the plant is offered. This is certainly true in this case. It is also part of the reason there is so much confusion amongst lavendar cultivars such as 'Hidcote' and 'Munstead'-there are no herbaria specimens and the descriptions published when they were introduced in the early 1900's were not done by botanists. Since all Rosemary in the U.S. is of one species, Rosmarinus officinalis, there are no hybrids between species. There are at least two or three other species and /or sub species, depending on the taxonomist, but they exist in nature in only a very small geographic area and have never made it into cultivation. Most taxonomists have never seen a living specimen. Much of the variation found in cultivation today is by chance or from seedlings. Rosemary does not come true from seed reliably. There are couple of cultivars that are known to have come from chance crosses between cultivars and as far as I know they produce viable seed. Learning the latin names of plants is extremely important in being able to converse amongst each other to be sure you are talking about the same plant. And yes it is fun too. But with rosemary it is of little help (all the same latin name). The diffences between plants are often so slight that they barely warrant a separate cultivar name, even though there are nearly 100 named cultivars out there (how many are dupicates with the same name-who knows but I have talked to growers who simply rename because they lost the original name). By the way my father also introduced the aforementioned 'Gorizia' along with several other varieties. Francesco DeBaggio
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calistoga and maifleur, Thanks for the prompt and helpful responses! This peony has grown satisfactorily for several seasons, which suggests it has no ongoing problems with rot; but it's true we've had the rainiest late summer/early fall in several years, and I suppose it might have succumbed to the unusual moisture. We have dry summers here and I don't water, so I rarely have to worry about rot due to excessive moisture. This does look more like rot than like any healthy aging process that I've ever seen, but I could be wrong, as I've never looked at peony roots before. About the sun, northern Italy is quite far north--we're on the same latitude as Bangor, Maine and central Oregon--and with our long summer days and dry hot summers I find that herbaceous peonies seem happier with some shade, while tree peonies do well in full sun and wind as well as in part shade. The grass was too wet yesterday to make working on this plant agreeable. I'm going to have my husband haul it up to the house today and clean and divide it up there. Melissa
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Hermitian
9 years ago
Ah! I have grown a few other types. I'd give Spice Island second place for flavor. Check out the "BEST CULINARY KINDS" in Sharon Cohoon's article in the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: The right rosemary for you
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fatamorgana2121
9 years ago
Richters Herbs has lots of varieties of different herbs. Give them a look.

FataMorgana
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Hermitian
9 years ago
Looking at Richters Herbs, I see the only culinary type they carry is Tuscan Blue.
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fatamorgana2121
9 years ago
Maybe you and I are looking at different Richters. There are more than a dozen varieties listed and many, if not all are culinary varieties.

FataMorgana
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Hermitian
9 years ago
All cultivars (incl. wild species) of Rosmarinus officinalis are edible. What is culinary -- esp. as regarded by chefs from 4-year schools is a much smaller list. I think Sharon Cohoon's article pretty much hit the nail on the head.
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fatamorgana2121
9 years ago
Usatc- it seems Hermitian and I cannot agree on much, but what I originally offered was valid. Richters, as well as other herb vendors, offer different varieties that you can add to your rosemary garden and use very nicely in your kitchen - no matter what culinary institute graduates say.

If that is your passion, I urge you to try many different kinds. Some plants will have different habits, flavors, and growing condition needs. You will end up finding some that suit you more or less especially since desirable flavors and aromas are very individual and personal. Sadly here in the Frozen North where we have 6 months of the year where we can see freezing temperatures and we see temperatures below 0 F in the winter, rosemary is not one of the items that can be grown year round. Even overwintering indoors is a challenge so I have little personal experience with any varieties other than the most hardy "Arp." Had decent rosemary flavor but I've failed to overwinter it. I know one gardener near to me with the right microclimate to get it to survive in mild winters. But overall it seems I'm just a tad too far north for it.

Good luck and enjoy your search! Be sure to come back and tell us your favorite varieties.

FataMorgana
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bardamu_gw
9 years ago
Usatc,

If you get a chance to visit Washington DC's national arboretum, there in the herb garden you'll find dozens of labeled rosemary cultivars grown into full bushes. It's a lovely place to be in the summer; very fragrant. Personally I'm happy with the standard variety for cooking. I'm guessing your zone won't be an issue for these plants unlike where I live where they have a good chance of not making it through the winter.
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Hermitian
9 years ago
The ugly truth about the national arboretum is that they will not release scionwood to developers even if we have a large pile of documentation to meet their criteria. To obtain the cultivars grown there one must look to other collectors.

bardamu, when you say "the standard variety" ... I'm sorry but there is no such thing unless you are referring to what is sold in your locale. For chefs, there is A LOT of difference in taste between cultivars.

It is true that most species and cultivars are very hardy across climates. Certainly in California the same species is used by the state highway engineers for medians in the desert (Indio, CA) as in the Pacific Northwest (Trinidad, CA).
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bardamu_gw
9 years ago
Hermitian, I've gone out of my way to buy so called culinary cultivars including the disappointing spice island, but my favorite so far is a no name officinalis that happened to burst with fragrance and oils which I accidentally clipped from the National arboretum. I'm admittedly old fashioned in thinking my experience has more weight than a group of decorated people telling what is best. But I will try the Tuscan blue and thank you for the tip.

This post was edited by bardamu on Sat, Dec 20, 14 at 2:40
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