Seeking Pollen Parent for Diploid Seedling

11 years ago

I have a 2007 diploid seedling that I plan to register this year. I'm looking for suggestions for a pollen parent for it that has doubling genes. The FFO's on this daylily were doubling, but it hasn't doubled since first blooming. I'd like to find a pollen parent that hopefully can contribute the right genes (alleles). My hybridizing end-goal is to create a cultivar with the same characteristics of the pod parent, but with a consistent doubling.

It doesn't qualify as a spider, but is "spidery."

Here's a photo of it:

I hope some of you can give me some ideas for a pollen parent that I can purchase.

Nancy

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Comments (12)

avedon_gw
11 years ago
Nancy, what are the characteristics of your seedling--which, by the way, is very pretty. Do you want the same color range, height, bloom size, etc. from the pollen parent or do you want something totally different? Avedon
mizellie
11 years ago
That's a really pretty daylily. have you chosen a name yet? Sorry about the pollen as my mind is a blank..Ellie
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Some daylilies have internal blocks against self pollination. So using any flowers closely related as pollen parents will ultimately fail to set a pod. Diploids are much more fertile than tetraploids generally. Expect only about a third of your tetraploid crosses to produce a pod with seeds. Diploids are more fertile, but some do have problems with fertility. Generally, the most refined are the least fertile it seems. Expect about 75% average success with dips. Dab the pollen on the tip of the pistil, the stigma. I try to cover it with pollen, hopefully to prevent bees or other insects from coming along later and adding pollen to the mix. Adding the wrong pollen at the wrong time can cause the pod to abort. If you are breaking the pistil or the stamen as you handle them, then you are being too rough. Lighten up. The unusual formed flowers with the extremely long pistils are notoriously infertile. Especially the tets. There are several schemes to try to overcome this infertility. One being cutting the pistil to shorten it. I don't know of anyone being successful with this scheme. Primarily because there is nothing to anchor the pollen grains, nor stigmatic fluid to activate the pollen. I think it will take more than just cutting off the pistil and dabbing pollen on the end to succeed. Have fun, Ed
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Well, Debra, I bred and showed Shih Tzu dogs and had seven champions. To be a successful dog breeder, I studied genetics. There is a lot more to breeding than just one pretty face to another, whether it be dogs or daylilies. The daylilies mentioned here in this thread are fine, and proven parents of notable progeny. But if fairysoapgirl is cross-pollinating to improve daylilies, she will consider the strong points and the weak of each parent and grandparent, and try to correct any deficiencies in the next generation. Or if she is looking for a desired outcome in the progeny, she will want to know about the possible results that she can obtain through careful analysis of the pros and cons of parents and especially grandparents. There is nothing wrong with cross-pollinating two fine daylilies. It depends on what one wants to achieve in the long run. Even taking a studied and scientific approach gives no guarantees. It only increases the odds of achieving the desired end result. For example, I have two diploid daylilies that have outstanding characteristics. Given sufficient rainfall, they bloom from March to August, non-stop. They are very healthy plants, even though they have never been fertilized or sprayed with anything at all. They are very fertile in four ways: pollen, pods, naturally occurring proliferations and increasing fans. With these characteristics, I think their genes should be preserved for future generations. So impressed I am with their qualities, I hope to have them converted to tetraploid, also. Why? Because they have much to contribute to the improvement of the modern daylily. As for plant diseases, careful breeding can help to reduce or eliminate them. What if one of these listed daylilies should have a parent that is a rust magnet? (I'm not saying that this is the case.) Even if one of these daylilies shows no signs of the disease, the gene for susceptibility can be carried recessively down to future generations. That's another serious reason that it is important to know who the parents are. Here's a brief example, albeit an oversimplification: I have a very pretty spider daylily that is not pod fertile. If I cross that daylily with one of my two daylilies mentioned above, I could then hope for some of the progeny of that cross to have the physical appearance of the pretty spider, and the pod fertility of the other parent. In that way, I would be making an improvement. Making informed choices in breeding is how I was fortunate enough to produce one of the top Shih Tzu at the National Specialty some years back. Planning your crosses is a matter of choice left up to the individual. It's your call, but I doubt that you will find very many of the highly successful hybridizers who do not take genetics into consideration.
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dani_plus_2
11 years ago
'Uncle Wiggily Longears' what about this one? It's a looker!
avedon_gw
11 years ago
We have only a few doubles and our best is Dublin Elaine, which is a Joiner. Joiner does a lot of doubles like Scatterbrain, Savannah Debutante, etc, and they wouldn't cost so much, but I looked up Uncle Wiggily Longears and it is impressive--so is the price. I'm still trying to think of any other doubles that might work for you. Avedon
avedon_gw
11 years ago
Just thought of another Joiner that might work--Firefly Frenzy which is an unusual form double, and AHS says it doubles 98 percent of the time. Avedon
Nancy Barginear
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks for the input.

I do have Firefly Frenzy - love that daylily! It never crossed my mind to cross the two of them. Sheesh! I'll do that next season. It has doubled 100% of the time for me.

Uncle Wiggly Longears looks like something I must acquire.

Nancy
polymerous
11 years ago
I like MADGE CAYSE. Sometimes the first few blooms are singles or partially double, but then it consistently doubles thereafter. I believe it has won an H.M. and A.M. (but not the doubles award).

It is ML, very fragrant, and is listed as a rebloomer. (Like most things here, however, it has not rebloomed for me; it gets a lot of shade and perhaps not enough water, so those might be contributing reasons.)

MADGE CAYSE at evening
Nancy Barginear
Original Author
11 years ago
MADGE CAYSE reminds me a lot of SCHNICKEL FRITZ (whiter, though), which I have. Thank you for the input.

I have dip doubles SWEET SAVANNAH, YAZOO JIM TERRY and DOUBLE CRANBERRY RUFFLES. Only YJT has been receptive to pollen for me. I just never thought about crossing them with my beloved red seedling, as I wanted red babies. I know, of course, that the best-laid plans of mice and men regarding daylily color is somewhat unpredictable! UNCLE WIGGLY LONGEARS had yellow parents, and is a brilliant orange! Go figure!

My problems in crossing my dip doubles with my seedling is a possible lack of parallel blooming days, along with sheer laziness on my part for not pulling pollen out of the freezer and applying it. I will do better next season!

Nancy
Ed
11 years ago
Nancy,
Jan Joiner has some double diploids in uf forms that I think are especially pretty. I would recommend you shop their site.
Ed
Nancy Barginear
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks, Ed. I'll take a look at them. Sounds very interesting!

Nancy
Nancy Barginear
Original Author
11 years ago
This was my surprise for the day: the above pictured seedling is now the pod parent of a double baby! (I didn't keep records early spring of 2011, so don't know the pollen parent. Since I have only so few doubles, I'm guessing it was Yazoo Jim Terry. It could even have been Firefly Frenzy.) Of course, it remains to be seen whether or not this will double, come spring. I think it must have bloomed the day I was gone as I see a spent bloom in the photo, so can't call it an FFO.

Nancy
avedon_gw
11 years ago
Love it!!! Avedon

Seeking Pollen Parent for Diploid Seedling

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