John, it is not important to me how long your posts are. Nor do I come into threads where you have posted to say "You must have a lot of time on your hands", as you have repeatedly done in this forum. It's sort of rude. The "Hatch thing" is no conspiracy, just business as usual in Congress. Hatch's relations with the supplement industry have been reported on in the major U.S. media, as noted in a report from the National Council Against Health Fraud: "Orrin Hatch takes two media hits. Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT), whose 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act has greatly weakened the FDA's ability to protect consumers, has been rebuked for suggesting that the FDA has not done enough to protect the public from ephedra's dangers. Calling Hatch's remarks "a dazzling display of hypocrisy," Time senior science writer Leon Jaroff said, "The time has come for drastic revision of DSHEA, the re-empowerment of the FDA and the rejection of cynical proposals by legislators like Orrin Hatch." [Jaroff L. It's time to rethink ephedra regulation. March 5, 2003] Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Times noted: From 1998 to 2001, while Hatch's son Scott worked for a lobbying firm with close ties to his father, supplement industry clients paid the company more than $1.96 million, more than $1 million of it from clients involved with ephedra. In 2002, Scott Hatch opened his own lobbying firm in partnership with two of his father's close associates. So far, the firm has received at least $30,000 in retainers from the National Nutritional Foods Association and a major manufacturer of ephedra (Twinlab) , both of whom were clients of the previous firm. During the past decade, Orrin Hatch has received nearly $137,000 in campaign contributions from the supplements industry. [Neubauer C and others. Senator, his son get boosts from makers of ephedra. Los Angeles Times, March 5, 2003]" You can find out more, if you are interested, by doing a Google search on the terms "Orrin Hatch supplement industry". Enjoy.

I posted this same response to another thread on shade gardening, but copy and paste is so easy, so... Solomon's seal grows nicely in full or part shade and the spring shoots are reported to be usable very similarly to asparagus. By one account in the book _Perennial Vegetables_, even preferable. The giant Solomon's seal variety (Polygonatum biflorum var. commutatum -- synonyms: P. commutatum, P. canaliculatum, P. giganteum) is more convenient for eating purposes because the shoots are much thicker than the standard smaller version. You'd have to pick quite a few of the smaller ones to contribute usefully to a meal since their shoots are pencil thin or maybe thinner. Other shade-tolerant listed in _Perennial Vegetables_ include ramps, fuki (aka butterbur), and wood nettles. The uncooked nettles, sadly, sting if touched, so would have to be located and treated with care. The book includes still others, but I haven't read through it with care outside of the plants that are suited to my colder climate. An article at http://hubpages.com/hub/Shade-Gardening-101 on shade gardening also lists ginseng, highbush cranberry, sumac (for 'pink lemonade' sun tea made from the fruits--other parts are poisonous and boiled tea is too bitter to drink). And then there's mushrooms, but I'm guessing you wouldn't be interested in that for someplace that also should have a strong ornamental aspect.

Don't forget that Lavendar is also a culinary herb as well. Great in cookies! Needs full sun and absolutely good drainage. I like to cook with fennel (foliage) on fish. There are different fennels - the bulb (large bulb used as a vegetable), the regular, grown for foliage only, and bronze. I plant all 3. Mainly for the Black Swallowtails. If you find those beautiful black, yellow, and white striped caterpillars on dill, parsley (curled mainly), and fennel - you've got black swallowtail caterpillars. You can plant extra for them and most the cats to those plants. This is our state butterfly. Flat leaf parsley is easier to cook with and eat. The curly leaf parsley tends to "stick" in people's throats. I know because I made a dish with it, and nobody could eat it! Big leaf green basil I agree is best for cooking pesto. Mmmmmm, I'm hungry already! I also grow garlic chives and chives, too. Hardy Rosemary can be grown here as well. Make sure you have the hardy cultivars. I grow lots of medicinal types of herbs, too, like Rue, because it is a host plant for the Black Swallowtail as well as the Giant Swallowtail. The butterflies love the blooms on many medicinal plants, e.g., echinacea or coneflowers, and many are quite lovely. A lot of what we grow in the garden is actually a medicinal and/or culinary herb. I also grow plantain for the Buckeye butterflies, but it is edible as well. Curry plant, or helichrysum petiolare(not the flowering straw flowers) can be eaten, too. This is also a host for Painted Lady butterflies. Pleurisy root (or asclepias, or milkweed) was used for just that. However, it is the host plant for Monarch butterflies. The tropical (Asclepias curassavica) is an annual, but it's flowers also attract lots of nectaring butterflies as well. There are several perennial milkweeds, too. Think about foxglove as well, or digitalis (heart medicine). Most people don't actually use these for medicinal purposes anymore, because these plants can be poisonous if not used properly. But, I include them in my garden not only as host plants for butterflies, but because they are beautiful as well. BTW - I have lots of Asclepias curassavica 'Silky Gold' and red/yellow blooms if any wants the seeds. Best planted after frost, directly in ground or pots outside. Susan

I also have not received any seeds. I've seen no effort on Olivia's part to contact me. For what it is worth, I have participated in quite a few swaps within this community before and have always found them worth taking the chance...sometimes fantastically so. However, I walked into the swaps recognizing that it IS taking a chance, especially if someone is a first-timer at facilitating a swap, as in this case apparently. I don't plan to stop participating in swaps in the future, but find it wise to gamble no more than I can afford to lose.