There is a lot to be said for Ziploc bags....the thing is that everyone seems to have their own preference based on costs, appearance, knowledge with handling, etc. etc.....and I am kind of glad we are all different. In Seattle, we got involved with disposable foot sox a few years ago and are now soaking them in kaolin clay to give added protective abilities....other parts of the country seem to have their own fads. I have used fuji bags for many years with success. Labor intensive, though, and I end up stapling the bags to the stem just to make sure it stays on. Portland homeowners used to use #2 bleached white paper bags.....this would hold up through the season because, believe it or not, Portland and Seattle have dry summers .... it is wet here the rest of the year but dry in the summer......the hard downpours of rain in Virginia (where I grew up) might be hard on these paper sacks, though....I don't know....so it is hard to say what works where....it depends on the locality's particular weather and bug problems. Plums are too tedious to bag, in my opinion, and we haven't had problems with insects up until now in plums anyway in the Northwest....(but the new drosophilia fly in Seattle will change that.....so stay tuned)....again though, the problems we have in Western Washington are different than the arid Eastern Washington. Apples have been worth it to bag for those prepared to thin and wanting to showcase at least a few apples. Don't be afraid to thin heavily on the big trees. Pears are resistant to codling moth in the Northwest for most of the season, but as the skin softens later in the season, a good bag will help....or foot sox to keep the codling moth out in late July. I also found a paper sack gives the pear a nice yellowish blush as well as keeping the codling moth out....(the earwigs love it, but hey...so what?). There are plenty of things that work......on a big farm, they will use pheromone mating disruptors, "attract and kills" or other cost-effective means but generally would find bagging way too labor intensive. The homeowner is different.

I will post some photos later but this year I tried bagging, apples, grapes and chums with either ziplocks or organza bags to keep the birds/bugs away. Organza bags being the nylon mesh bags used for wedding gifts and the like. I bought mine from: http://www.yourorganzabag.com/organzabag.htm. I used Moss Green as they are not visible in the foliage. I used the 6x9 bags but are they are a bit short for long grapes. Perfect for plums and apples and small bunches of grapes. I trimmed off the top of the ziplock just to the zipper part. Then at each bottom corner I cut off a triangle of plastic to leave about a 3/4 - 1 inch hole for ventilation. After 4 months there is a big difference. The ziplocks act like little greenhouses. There is nearly always significant condensation inside. The bags have a tendency to collapse and even with the drain holes there can be 5-10ml of cumulative water condensation inside. Earwigs like to crawl up via the condensation holes and hang out. The Organza bags have no issues. The are well sealed, no bugs get inside and ventilation is perfect. For apples, there does not seem to be a big issue with the heat/humidity. They seem to be growing and coloring up roughly the same no matter which bag. For the plums and grapes there are a huge difference. Once starting to turn color there is skin breakdown and rot formation in the ziplocked grapes. Coluration of the grapes also seems to be better in with the Organza bags. My Organza bags cost about $0.22 each vs $0.04/ziplock. However after 3 months they still look pretty much like new and as I am harvesting grapes I keep the bags for re-use next year. Another positive is the Organza bags have no perperation time (ziplocks you need to trim 2 corners + the tag) and are super easy to install. The Organza bags have a drawstring, you just open the bag, pull the string then tie a bow over the branch. For me, for the look (my trees don't look like they are covered in plastic), the ease of installation and the ventilation I will be using Organza bags from now on. Not sure for apples if you would see a difference with airborn fungus and scab but they work great for all insect and bird related problems. I think they would work awesome for peaches as they breath very well but keep the bugs/birds out. Just my experience up here in zone 4.

Hello All : I apologize for another long post. I will divide this post into a response to answers received from the previous post followed by several additional questions followed by a recalculation to correct the volume/cost of the gritty mix and present some weight values for the 10, 15, and 25 gallon container sizes discussed previously when filled with dry/wet gritty mix. Here goes: Response to previous answers: Thanks to everyone for their comments to my previous post. Thank you Ohiofem for correctly pointing out the previous calculation of dollar per gallon was incorrect because the stated volume of mix, 7 ft^3, prepared from a 50 lb bag of turface, a 50 lb bag of Gran-I-Grit, and a 3 cubic foot bag of fir bark was incorrect . My memory for the combined volume of 1 bag of each component was not correct. I also noticed in my previous post that while the result of 52.4 gallons resulting from the conversion of 7 cubic feet of actual mix was numerically correct I did inadvertently leave out a factor (1 liter/1000 ml) in the calculation shown in the previous post, which would not have given the stated result. Sorry for the confusion. As suggested by Ohiofem I would be able to make the gritty mix more cheaply if I could find a local source for the pine/fir bark. When I first started trying to put the gritty mix together I experimented with the Reptile bark (~0.93 cubic foot size bag) some are using to build the mix that I bought at a local pet store. However, it seemed that by the time I screened the material I was throwing large amounts out because the size was not correct. Therefore, since I have a number of trees I just bought the same type Al T uses but there is of course the issue of shipping and handling which increases the cost. So far I have not been able to get a local Lowes or other box store to bring in the bark so I can get it cheaper. I have also, unsuccessfully, tried to get local nurseries to bring in some of the bark with their regular orders. This is in part why I would like to get quantitative information about how well the gritty mix is expected to outperform the 5-1-1. I am assuming I can find the bark needed for the 5-1-1 locally and no screening is required. Therefore, if general plant performance in 5-1-1 is only slightly different than in the gritty mix then perhaps I should switch to the 5-1-1. However, if the gritty mix is far and away more superior and I will get such better growth then perhaps I need to find a way to deal with the gritty mix problems (weight, price, size of container to use, reduced number of plants to transfer into the mix, etc). The consensus seems to be that while the gritty mix is viewed as superior for figs and it seems plants in general, the 5-1-1 mix is being used more frequently for growing fig trees. The preference for the 5-1-1 mix seems to be primarily the lighter weight for the same volume of mix allowing easier movement for larger container volumes of potted trees, ease of finding the components for the 5-1-1, and cheaper cost of building the 5-1-1 mix (I have a lot of trees: the revised calculations below for gritty mix of ~ $100 for ~ 67 gallons of gritty mix would not be enough to pot all my fig trees let alone other plants I currently have). It has been noted in response to my previous post that figs grow like weeds in the 5-1-1 mix. Unfortunately, I have not had any replies from someone growing fig trees in the gritty mix. If I correctly read previous replies it seems one can get 2 growing years out of one batch of 5-1-1, which sounds good since I thought it must be made fresh every year. Doing a quick calculation for the 10, 15, and 25 gallon containers for the number of fig trees I have indicates that I would need to invest the following amounts at the current price of ~ $100 for ~ 67 gallons of gritty mix (see detailed calculations below) to prepare enough gritty mix to pot each fig tree into the container size specified below. 10 gallon pot: $150.55 15 gallon pot: $225.82 25 gallon pot: $376.37 The breakdown would be: 10 gallon pot: 1.63 bags of bark + 3.46 bags of turface + 8.01 bags of Gran-I-Grit 15 gallon pot: 2.44 bags of bark + 5.28 bags of turface + 12.24 bags of Gran-I-Grit 25 gallon pot: 4.07 bags of bark + 8.80 bags of turface + 20.40 bags of Gran-I-Grit Conclusion : I need to find cheaper ingredients, use smaller containers, graft multiple varieties onto 1 tree to reduce the number of overall trees needing mix, drive to oakhill gardens to buy numerous bags of bark which if I remember the price correctly will cut the price of the bark in half: costs as much to ship it as it does to buy it, or find a cheaper mix that can work as near as effectively as the gritty mix as possible. This is another reason why I would like to get quantitative information about how well the gritty mix is expected to outperform the 5-1-1. Several Additional Questions: Question: Am I correct in remembering that the polymer containing moisture control peat based soils are also not good because of the �pudding argument� advanced when discussing adding perlite to peat based soils to make the soils drain excess water better? Or does the polymer absorb enough water so as not to allow a significant perched water table? Even if the polymer inhibits the perched water table is compaction of the peat based material severely limiting to roots and thus growth of the plant? Question: I may have missed this in previous posts from Al T or others but approximately what volume of a 50 lb bag of turface should I expect to lose from the screening process? I have asked in previous posts but have not received an answer. I would like to estimate how much higher the cost of the mix will be when considering the loss of turface due to screening. Question: Is there a way I can get the same benefits of the gritty mix and decrease the weight of the mix? Could I incorporate horticultural grade perlite, available locally, into the mix? If so what ratio of bark:turface:granite:perlite should I use? Question: Can the effective life time of the 5-1-1 be extended if after the second year (or even after the first year) the mix is sifted through insect screen to remove small particles resulting from breakdown of the peat/bark? Once removed by the insect screen, could the peat/bark fraction simply be replenished with fresh material by estimation of how much of each has been removed, which would come from the knowledge of the total volume of each that initially went into the preparation of the mix? I am assuming the peat fraction is the part that will be primarily decomposing into small particles and need replacement? I am thinking this may be able to be done if fresh 5-1-1 mix is made so that a plant is transferred into the fresh mix allowing the old mix to dry so it can be broken up and sifted. Question: (I didn�t receive a reply from the last post) I last did root pruning in spring 2011 and so I am planning to again root prune this year. I have noticed that for the last few years my trees tend to break dormancy around the end of February. Unfortunately, this means I should root prune (I think) toward mid February. However, mid February is still too cold outside to work comfortably for extended periods of time especially if I will be washing off peat based soil from roots to transfer into the gritty mix. In order to rinse any remaining peat based soil off of roots how long may I keep the roots in a bucket of water (instead of spraying with a hose as I did the last time I root pruned) without risk of killing the roots. I figure in this way I can gently raise and lower the roots in the bucket to release the last bits of soil after I remove the tree from the container or if I need to I can use my hand within the bucket of water to quickly remove the soil. I could set this up inside the garage to shield against cool/cold weather. Gritty Mix Recalculations: Below are revised calculations for the gritty mix. The next section of this post is a listing of the density: mass per volume of each of the components of the gritty mix. The density information for the Gran-I-Grit and Fir Bark were obtained by calling the companies, The North Carolina Granite Corporation for Gran-I-Grit and Shasta Forest Products for Fir Bark. The density information for Turface was obtained from technical specifications obtained from the company website: Profile Products, LLC. Density values: Gran-I-Grit (dry): 2250 lbs per cubic yard, Turface (dry): 36 +/- 2 lbs per cubic foot, and Fir Bark (dry): 54 lbs per 3 cubic feet Conversion of the densities to pounds per gallon: Gran-I-Grit: 2250 lbs/yd^3 * (1 yd)^3/(3 ft)^3 * (1 ft)^3/(12 inches)^3 * (1 inch)^3/(2.54 cm)^3 * (1 cm)^3/1 ml * 1000 ml/1 liter * 3.78 liter/1 gallon = (2250 x 1000 x 3.78) / (27 x 1728 x 16.387064) = 11.12412 lbs/gallon ~ 11.12 lbs/gallon Turface: 36 lbs/ft^3 * (1 ft)^3/(12 inches)^3 * (1 inch)^3/(2.54 cm)^3 * (1 cm)^3/1 ml * 1000 ml/1 liter * 3.78 liter/1 gallon = (36 x 1000 x 3.78) / (1728 x 16.387064) = 4.8056198 lbs/gallon ~ 4.80 lbs/gallon Fir Bark: 54 lbs/3 ft^3 * (1 ft)^3/(12 inches)^3 * (1 inch)^3/(2.54 cm)^3 * (1 cm)^3/1 ml * 1000 ml/1 liter * 3.78 liter/1 gallon = (54 x 1000 x 3.78) / (3 x 1728 x 16.387064) = 2.4028099 lbs/gallon ~ 2.40 lbs/gallon Calculation of the equivalent volume of Gran-I-Grit and Turface using the previously calculated densities: Gran-I-Grit: 50 lb bag Volume = 50 lbs / 11.12412 lbs/gallon = 4.4947376 gallons Converting gallons to cubic feet of Gran-I-Grit: 4.4947376 gallons * 3.78 liters / 1 gallon * 1000 ml / 1 liter * 1 cm^3 / 1 ml * (1 inch)^3 / (2.54 cm)^3 * (1 ft)^3 / (12 inches)^3 = (4.4947376 x 3.78 x 1000) / (16.387064 x 1728) = 0.600 ft^3 Turface: 50 lb bag Volume = 50 lbs / 4.8056198 lbs/gallon = 10.404485 gallons Converting gallons to cubic feet of Turface: 10.404485 gallons * 3.78 liters / 1 gallon * 1000 ml / 1 liter * 1 cm^3 / 1 ml * (1 inch)^3 / (2.54 cm)^3 * (1 ft)^3 / (12 inches)^3 = 10.404485 x 3.78 x 1000 / (16.387064 x 1728) = 1.3888889 ft^3 ~ 1.39 ft^3 Bark: 3 cubic feet bag as purchased Converting cubic feet of bark to gallons of bark: 3 ft^3 * (12 inches)^3 / (1 ft)^3 * (2.54 cm)^3 / (1 inch)^3 * 1 ml / 1cm^3 * 1 liter / 1000 ml * 1 gallon / 3.78 liters = (3 x 1728 x 16.387064) / (3.78 x 1000) = 22.473688 gallons ~ 22.47 gallons Summary: Turface 50 lbs 1.39 ft^3 10.40 gallons 4.80 lbs/gallon Gran-I-Grit 50 lbs 0.60 ft^3 4.49 gallons 11.12 lbs/gallon Bark 54 lbs 3 ft^3 22.47 gallons 2.40 lbs/gallon Therefore, to make the gritty mix using the entire 3 cubic foot bag of fir bark would require 5 bags of Gran-I-Grit and 2.158 bags of Turface and would result in: Gran-I-Grit: 5 x 0.60 ft^3 = 3 ft^3; 5 x 4.49 gallons ~ 22.45 gallons Turface: 2.158 x 1.39 ft^3 = 2.999 ft^3 ~ 3 ft^3; 2.158 x 10.40 gallons = 22.44 gallons Fir Bark: 3 ft^3; 22.47 gallons 3 ft^3 + 3 ft^3 + 3 ft^3 = 9 ft^3 or ~22.47 x 3 = 67.41 gallons of mix. The next section calculates the cost of the gritty mix when combining 1 bag of fir bark, 5 bags of Gran-I-Grit, and 2.158 bags of Turface. Gran-I-Grit: 5 bags x $8/bag = $40 Turface: 2.158 bags x $8/bag = $17.264 ~ $17.26 Fir Bark: 1 bag x $35 (includes shipping and handling) = $35 Total: $92.26 Price per gallon of gritty mix: $92.26/67.41 gallons = $1.368/gallon ~ $1.37/gallon For comparison: 64 quarts * 1 gallon / 4 quarts = 16 gallons of peat based miracle grow soil locally purchased for ~ $12. Price per gallon of miracle grow peat based soil: $12/16 gallons = $0.75 / gallon. The table below calculates the weight of the gritty mix when dry for each of the container sizes discussed in the original question posted. The table also calculates the weight of the mix when wet assuming I remember correctly that the weight increases by ~ 25% when wet. 10 Gallon Container: 3.33 gal Grit * 11.12 lbs/gal = 37.06 lbs + 3.33 gal turface * 4.80 lbs/gallon = 15.98 lbs + 3.33 gal fir bark * 2.40 lbs/gallon = 7.99 lbs = 61.03 total lbs dry. 15 Gallon Container: 5 gal Grit * 11.12 lbs/gal = 55.60 lbs + 5 gal turface * 4.80 lbs/gallon = 24.00 lbs + 5 gal fir bark * 2.40 lbs/gallon = 12.00 lbs = 91.60 total lbs dry. 25 Gallon Container: 8.33 gal Grit * 11.12 lbs/gal = 92.66 lbs + 8.33 gal turface * 4.80 lbs/gallon = 39.98 lbs + 8.33 gal fir bark * 2.40 lbs/gallon = 19.99 lbs = 152.63 total lbs dry. An increase of weight of 25% when wet gives: 10 gallon: 61.03 + 0.25(61.03) = 76.28 lbs ~ 76 lbs 15 gallon: 91.60 + 0.25(91.60) = 114.50 lbs ~ 115 lbs 25 gallon: 152.63 + 0.25(152.63) = 190.78 lbs ~ 191 lbs The table below indicates the price equivalent of using the prepared gritty mix as described (~67.41 gallons) compared to the price equivalent of using locally purchased miracle grow. Example calculation for: $ Equivalent of Gritty Mix Used per Pot (10 gallon pot): 10 gallon/67.41 gallons * $92.26 = $13.69 $ Equivalent of Miracle Grow (mir grow) Peat Based Mix (10 gallon pot): 10 gallon/16 gallons * $12 = $7.50 The first column below is the container size, the second column is the gritty mix price, the third column is the miracle grow price, the fourth column is the difference in price between the gritty mix used and the miracle grow used, and the fifth column is the percentage of gritty mix used to fill each container. 10 gallon: $13.69 $7.50 $6.19 (10/67.41)* 100 = 14.83% 15 gallon: $20.53 $11.25 $9.28 (15/67.41)* 100 = 22.25% 25 gallon: $34.21 $18.75 $15.46 (25/67.41)* 100 = 37.08% Therefore, for a 10 gallon, 15 gallon, and 25 gallon container: 67.41 gallons * 1 pot / 10 gallons = 6.741 ~ 6.5 pots per gritty mixture as made above. 67.41 gallons * 1 pot / 15 gallons = 4.494 ~ 4.5 pots per gritty mixture as made above. 67.41 gallons * 1 pot / 25 gallons = 2.6964 ~ 2.5 pots per gritty mixture as made above. Thanks everyone for your help! Brian

figster, I had to laugh when I saw your post. Turns out that I rode my bike past your house several days ago. It all started when my wife asked me if I saw the house on "Main St" that had what looked like "bags" placed over bushes or trees in their front yard and maybe I could get some of those for our figs. I said I'd check it out. So I ride over your way and sure enough, tyvek "bags" in the front and more in the back. When I saw the fruit trees along the driveway, I was sure there was tender fruit trees under that tyvek. If anyone had been out in the yard I would have stopped. I didn't want to invade your privacy and come up banging on the door, so I put your house on the sureillance list, you know places of interest. I have little to share at present, as I'm just getting back into cultivating figs but would be more than happy to trade in the future. You know there are several other fig people in the Detroit area and I wonder if we could have a fig swap in the spring. I'm pretty sure the tomato people have a swap in the spring at one of the Royal Oak city parks. You know, just crash their party and swap for whatever. Something to think about. I'll send you an email. Dan By the way, great pictures and a good wrap job. You do very neat work.