Hi Tom! Haven't seen you posting for a while!

I have seen fewer hummingbirds this year, but I think it's mostly because my yard was in bad shape. Fewer blossoms = fewer birds.

Kate

Hi, Kate, I've been busying doing stuff, but I check in to read what you and Marcia and others are saying.

I'd like to think that I'm getting these hummers because I have lots of plants in bloom. I do, but I'm suspicious of answers that seem too favorable.

Good to "see" you, Kate.

Tom

Tom, it would seem from earlier posts that hummingbirds are changing their patterns somewhat in recent years, with more rufous and other types being spotted, and some rubies staying all winter, and/or returning earlier. From what I've been reading and what has been posted by several folks here, you can be prepared for most anything these days.

Here is a link to one of the threads on this subject. There are at least two more recent ones.

Marcia (Good to see you posting!! Don't be such a stranger.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Hummer Info

I think the big question is, are they changing their patterns or is there just more thorough reporting of what is here, thanks in part to the Internet, that is leading to a better understanding of their distribution. Increased reports lead to more people landscaping and hanging feeders for them, consequently, even more reports.

These hummingbirds have been being reported in Florida for years. I started following/chasing the rare ones in 1993. The Lakeland Calliope was 12 years ago but you're just hearing of it thanks to improved communication.

I started my first Website in 2003 for exactly this reason. It seemed as though rare hummingbirds only visited "birders" yards, and quite often in groups. They also seemed to only occur in larger cities like Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Gainesville, and, of course, Valrico. In reality, that's because these were homes of birders within the communication loop that existed back then. One of the first groups of "rare" wintering hummers I knew of were visiting honeysuckle in St. Leo, where there were no feeders. It was lucky that a birder noticed them while golfing at the gulf course across the street from the abby.

It may be a combination of that the birds have aways been here along with a change in nmumbers due to a change in food supply with the increase in feeders and landscaping. I'm not sure that we'd be seeing a true increase if not for the increase in feeders offered and landscapeing. Feeders bring them into where we can see them and increase the likelihood of them being reported.

I'm still hosting over a dozen hummingbirds, I counted 15 last weekend for the Great Backyard Bird Count, but that is likely due to my maintaining at least that many feeders. I've created territories in my yard so that I can host more than one bird but it's the availablity of the feeder that convinces the birds to reduce the size of their territories and get along with other.

Steve in Valrico

Here is a link that might be useful: Hummers in My Yard

Rowdy, I think you are correct that the question is how much is new behavior and how much is better reporting. One thing, though...everything is relative. When I say I've been involved with birding and hummers, etc, for years, I'm talking about going back to the 1960's...more like 40 to 50 years, rather than 12. (For me, 12 years ago is like yesterday! I'm OOOOLD, you know! Haha.)

I definitely think some of the behavior is different today than it was 40 years ago, whether it has to do with climate, food sources, or other factors. But I also agree that more observers and better communication are giving us a clearer picture, too. I am watching a lot more closely now that I know there are more species of wintering hummers out there, and that rubies may be changing their migratory habits.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was closely involved with Dr. Herbert Kale and the production of the Breeding Bird Atlas during the '70's and early 80's, so these weren't slouchers in the bird recording department. They were very involved in tracking and banding, and used the info to write the book, which I had the fun of helping type and proof. At any rate, the data collected back then is very different for whatever reason, and I've been enjoying learning about these "newer" developments.

We may never know for sure how much is better reporting, and how much is due to changing habits & patterns, but I really believe that at least some of it is "new" behavior...different from 40 years ago.

It will be fun to continue to count and observe. Who knows...it may get more and more common to see these wintering birds, and perhaps even other western species.

And I definitely appreciate your input. It makes me remember that nothing in Nature is static. Things change, no matter the reason, and I'm happy to be reminded of that, thanks to your posts. I will be much more observant of my hummers now, and that's a good thing!

Marcia

Marcia, my birding also goes back the late 60's in Illinois. I just waited to use my knowledge until I moved down here in '89.

One failure of the collection of scientific data regarding hummingbirds 40 years ago was that they weren't looking in the backyards of non-birders during the winter. Much of our current knowledge is coming from non-scientific means like the Great Backyard Bird Count (see my link) or Project Feeder Watch. Look at me, I have a science background but I eat ice cream to pay the bills. I'm working towards expanding our knowledge of hummers without "science" behind me.

I do believe that the behavior has changed some but that it is likely due to increased survival of the birds that make it here in the winter, allowing for them to migrate back to the north /west, reproduce, and then return again, possibly with off-spring (although it is not believed that they migrate together). One stress they face here may include loss of food sources due to freezes which they can survive with the availability of feeders. Of course it may also have to do with "warm" periods like the past few winters where I've had flowering plants survive the full season. Also possible affecting these birds, that would result in a true change, could be weather changes/cycles along their migration paths that would have prohibited their return.

I also need to add that this is not a phenomona just in south/central Florida. Larger numbers of hummingbirds are being reported and banded in the panhandle and north Florida and along the other Gulf Coast states. Even up the Atlantic coast to New York. I was surprised to find out about yards in the Carolinas that are hosting more hummingibrds than I am currently hosting.

Look around the Great Backyard Bird Count site and check out the sightings of some of the other hummingbirds species.

Here is a link that might be useful: Florida Ruby-throated hummingbird Great Backyard Bird Count Totals

Facinating discussion here. Steve, I read about your hummers when I started planting for them. I was very encouraged and I still am by your success.

It appears that we still don't know if the ones I have represent a change in their range or if I'm just getting better at attracting the ones that are around. They do remember the sites, though, don't they? So perhaps they will be back next year.

Right now I seem to have three of them, but I'm not sure what kind they are. I never had much luck with feeders. Mine seem to prefer flowers. I do have one feeder up now and one hummer comes to it every so often. I think it's a juvenile female Ruby-throat, because she's small, doesn't appear to be brown and has a pale breast. She seems to have a shorter tail than most of the other hummers I see.

I suppose I would put out more feeders if I thought they need them or if I could attract more, but, as I said, I don't seem to have much luck with the feeders. They seem to prefer the flowers.

So glad to read your postings, Marcia. You provide such depth.

Steve, you're an inspiration.

"Marcia, my birding also goes back the late 60's in Illinois. I just waited to use my knowledge until I moved down here in '89. "

What, you just sat around Illinois ignorant??? Hahahaha! (That's a JOKE, folks! Only teasing! It was too good to pass up.)

Steve, I'm really fascinated by this new info. Whether it is a change brought on by differences in weather or food sources, or just better records and more info available, it is truly cool to know. I used to be so envious of the western states for all those wonderful hummers they had. My parents birded Padre Island, TX, and saw so many kinds and in such numbers. And when I visited my daughter in San Diego, I was blown away to see Costa's & Anna's hummers just perched on telephone lines all over the place.

With this information you have shared with us, I feel like I have a chance to see something really cool right here in Florida, too. Of course, for my money, the ruby-throated is as pretty as any, and I'm always happy to have them visit my salvias, honeysuckle and feeders. But the thought of seeing something really different is exciting.

You make very good points about checking out the backyards of non-birders. They wouldn't be getting voluntary reports from those folks, and data could easily be overlooked. I'll tell you, though...I really, REALLY miss Herb Kale. He was a gem of a man and so knowledgeable in areas beyond birding. It was always a treat to do a count with him. Oh, the stories I could tell! What a funny, kind and generous guy. The world lost a great naturalist when he passed away.

But I digress. I'm so enjoying learning new things about hummers, and having old data and ideas challenged. Nature never fails to entertain and inspire.

Tom, I have always had hummers come to both my flowers and my feeders. I put the feeders IN with the flowers at first, then gradually move them farther and farther away, towards the porch (or whatever viewing area I wanted). They follow them. My observations were that they would hit the flowerbeds first, working over each plant carefully, then they would swoop right over to the feeder. But if there were several hummers around, they usually went straight to the feeder and fought over it.

Steve, I have been sleeping most of the day (still on pain meds from Wednesday's root canal, urk!) so I haven't been online much, but I will check out the link. Is this the big backyard count that Cornell does? (I think that's it...I was always going to take part, but never have officially.)

I used to do the Christmas bird count for Orange Audubon society every year. It was a grueling, but FUN, day. Starting before daylight to call for owls, etc, and then ending at dusk doing the same thing. We always worked out by the St. John's. I was always a good spotter, but I was never really good at bird calls. (With some notable exceptions that are unmistakable, of course.) I will check out the link after supper, if I am still awake.

I put my newest hummingbird feeder out Monday, and crossed my fingers. I have so little blooming right now, I don't know if they will find it, but we'll see. Thanks for an interesting and informative discussion.

Marcia

I was out yesterday TRYING to get a close up of my hummer (setting up the tripod and screwing the camera on it) when he flew from the Crepe Myrtle tree to just above my head and HUNG THERE as if to say, "HaHa, I'm this close and you still can't get a good picture of me!" He then flew up in the Oak tree by where I was standing and watched me as I tried to get the camera off the tripod but of course by the time I did, he flew back to the CM. I swear he is playing games with me. I had changed the feeders yesterday morning and he was in the tree in his normal resting place. I had just filled the first one and rehung it, took down the second one and came inside to wash it out and fill it, I glanced out the window and he's feeding from the first one. I went back out and hung the second one, came in and looked out and he's at it.

I only saw him once today. This afternoon turned pretty cool and I didn't see him at his normal feeding time between 4 and 5. I wouldn't figure he would leave while the cold front was coming through but he usually spends quite some time feeding from the feeder and catching insects in the Oak trees. I will be anxious to see if he is here tomorrow. I expect anyday that he will be leaving.

Good to hear from you Tom. Are you ready for your butterflies to return?

Let's hope your hummer stays, Mary. Is it normal for you to see hummingbirds at this time of year?

I've had Monarchs pretty much throughout the winter. Only when it's near freezing do they seem to disapear. They were here today, along with some Fritillaries.

I'm armed to the teeth for the Eastern Blacks this year.
I've got four large parsely plants and four fennels--three bronze. You seem to get a lot of the black swallowtails. Let me know when you see one.

Tom

Tom, I released 4 monarchs this week and have 2 more that haven't eclosed yet. I don't think they were a very vigorous bunch...the cold seemed to have an impact as they tried to eclose. I have one eastern black swallowtail chrysalis left from last summer! It is still viable, I believe, because they usually decay if they die inside. I've heard that some butterflies will winter over for some reason, and I think this one has. Can't wait to see if he finally makes an appearance and is healthy.

MB, if your hummer leaves, he should be replaced shortly by the "usual suspects," I would think. February is when they have traditionally started showing up for central Florida. So even if yours is a winter migrant and heads out, you might find others coming by soon. Good luck!

Marcia

Tom - no I have never had one stay but for more than a day or two - as Marcia says that may start soon. This guy showed up Jan. 10 and has been a daily visitor. Then on Feb. 11 saw a 2nd, an immature male and he has visited but only in the late afternoon.

I think my resident one may have moved on or at least he is definitely not hanging around throughout the day as he was. A few of my neighbors found out that I had one and they have also put out feeders or at least said they were going on. I don't know if he would move to another house after being here for so long.

Anyway, only saw one feeding at noon and only for a few seconds. Its color under the chin was coral - not as deep red as "Hummie" but more than the immature. As I said it was only for a second and it was bright outside so maybe it was him. But he hasn't been around for the long afternoon feeding he used to do. I feel kinda sad.

As far as butterflies - not much going on here. Have seen more Sulphurs than anything else. I have tons of Milkweed and even some of my Passionvine made it throught the cold.
I have several pots of Parsley, dill and fennel. My poor Pipevine really got hit hard, burnt to a crisp on top.
Wild Lime is okay, Rue is struggling. I haven't seen as many Gulf Frits or Monarchs as I usually do throughout the winter.

I too have a couple of Eastern Black chrysalis and a couple Giant Swallowtails overwintering. I am sure there are Polydamas underneath the Pipevine. My neighbor found a chrysalis inside her screened porch, attached to the frame of her sliding glass door.

Hope we are finished with the cold weather. I am ready for spring!

I'll only disrupt this very cool conversation for a moment to tell y'all I love reading your discussions and thank you for having them online where I can learn from them. I"m sure others feel likewise. No hummers here in awhile, but I'm on the look-out.Susannah

Hummingbirds are such a joy. It just makes my day to see them. Today I heard them, but couldn't catch more than a brief glimpse.

I'm going to hang a feeder right in my ugly shrimp plant to see if I can get more to come to it. The shrimp plant has colonized a large part of a corner of my yard and it's the favorite of the hummers at the moment.

"Marcia, my birding also goes back the late 60's in Illinois. I just waited to use my knowledge until I moved down here in '89. "

"What, you just sat around Illinois ignorant??? Hahahaha! (That's a JOKE, folks! Only teasing! It was too good to pass up.)"

Some might agree. It was the 70's, I was young...

I'm reminded that even if these birds were migrating to Florida years ago, the numbers are increasing. Better reporting and landscaping is part of the increase but the numbers are increasing annually in those areas that are reporting them annually. We are making a difference.

I'm reminded of a post to Humnet back in 2002 that fueled my drive to educate Floridians to the possibility of attracting wintering hummingbirds. I've included a link to that post that I placed on a Webpage when I created my Floridahummers page. It tells the story of 30 years of hummingbirds on Baton Rouge Christmas Bird Counts. From the late 70's when 3 or 4 hummingbirds on the New Orleans CBC was considered a very big deal (zero in Baton Rouge) to 2002 when arpound 100 homes were reporting wintering hummingbirds in Baton Rouge.

It's a little long but an interesting read.

Steve in Valrico.

Here is a link that might be useful: 30 Years of Wintering Hummingbirds in Baton Rouge

I read the article, Steve. It's not totally clear if they were reporting more or if they had actually increased the numbers that they were recording. I would hope the latter. It seems logical to me that if the food they eat is provided in more abundance the hummingbirds should do better.

In my case the trees, bushes and vines I planted are getting bigger and producing more flowers. Right now I have a large shrimp plant that's about twenty feet wide and has climbed up about 15 feet into a tree. I also have a very large Hong Kong Orchid tree with thousands of blooms that the hummers love. The other big attractor is a Cross vine that has draped itself over two rather large Crepe Myrtles. I have a lot more plants for them, but right now these are the major ones.

I'm sure hoping that I'm making it easier for hummingbirds to survive and multiply. I'm not at all good at identifying different types, so I'm not sure what kind I have at the moment. However the annual Ruby-throat migration is beginning and I should be seeing them in the next few days. I'm going to be getting happier very soon...

Fascinating discussion.

Tom

Well, I have been seeing less and less of my two hummers at the feeders. I actually had thought that my mature male (HUMMIE) had left but I saw him today in the afternoon. He was in the Crepe Myrtle tree and flew to the Firespike to nectar. At the same time he was in the tree, I spotted a smaller one in another CM closer to me. It came down to feed and I got a picture of him but it isn't very good. It appears he is a young male too but the color is just coming in on the sides of his neck, not yet under the chin. This one must be a different immature male than I have been seeing whose color was under the chin but not on the sides. So, I think I have three now. After he finished at the feeder, he flew directly to my Coral Honeysuckle and nectared from that. It has just really started to bloom this last week with the warmer weather. So now I know they are getting a more balanced diet, I feel better. Just hoping they stick around a while longer.

For some reason the ones that I am seeing now come at mid-morning and leave late in the afternoon.

In the next few days the male Ruby-throats will be showing up. They seem to stick around the property and are most active at dawn and dusk.

I just looked at the migration map. Someone reported seeing a Ruby-throat on the Gulf coast almost directly west of me. They are here!

Take a look at the map below. In the next week or so most of Florida will be covered.

Here is a link that might be useful: hummingbird migration map

Tom, I think some of these birds have been here all long but we're making a difference in supplying them with food following severe weather like we've had this year. The numbers are increasing each year. Had the birds not had my feeders after the freeze, some of them may not have survived to return next year. They also would not have survived to breed which may also result in more birds heading this way. So, I do believe we're making a difference in some individual lives as well as the whole population.