Hi Dave,

'Nutans' is a very irregular growing cultivar, right? Here is a picture of a large specimen at Coenosium Gardens. I've seen pictires of even bigger plants elsewhere. Yours looks pretty much as I'd expect a young 'Nutans' to look.

This cultivar is *not* for the lover of symmetry. They all belong in the "weirder the better club."

~Dave

Here is a link that might be useful:

Dave,

You are quite right in your assessment of 'Nutans' being in the "weirder the better club".
I am quite familiar with this one and have seen 4-5 interesting specimens.

Concerning this one... I am referring to this flat sided winged grow habit which is a result of a side limb graft. It still thinks it's a limb.

Perhaps the photos don't do it justice.

At any rate if an upright vertical growth shoot were used I am sure I would not be posting here.

The link is the more representative plant I am looking for.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Mine looks perfectly normal. And I like 'weird'. Go figure....

I have a blue atlas Cedar (Cedrus libana var. atlantica 'Glauca') that apears to be doing something similar. I'll try to post some photos this weekend (if I can get a break from storm preparation). I'd like to know what you think, since I've been trying to figure this one out for years. It was not a mail-order plant, and was 7-8 feet when planted. The trunk was straight on planting as far as I can recall but since then all new growth on the leader has been at a 45 degree angle. Tried staking it for several years but eventually gave up on staking.

Alex

but who is going to cut the leader off a good one.. to graft it for you????

want me to send the paper work to join the weirder the better club.. or is it a goner???

i suspect the latter...

ken

I was going to ask that question...I don't know anything about grafting, but wouldn't one need to graft from laterals because there is typically only one leader per conifer? How does one increase the population by grafting if no lateral branches are used? Can someone explain - I'm sure that I'm missing something.

Count me in on the weirder the better club!

Sara

I will be the first to admit I have never had any first hand experience at grafting. I am only familiar to the extent of what Dax has shown us on the forum. I also lack the correct nomenclature of words to get my point across

I see no need to cut the main leader. Not even a remote thought. Just any single vertical shoot off parent plant is necessary. I see 3-4 perfect scions of 'Hoopsii' here that will graft onto under stock that will grow into perfect upright specimens

{{gwi:831830}}

This was not the case with 'Nutans'. A small branch with multiple candles that had taken set growing on the horizontal.

I belong to the "weirder the better club" and have 4 plants that qualify. One that would take an Oscar at the Academyfor the weirdest ever.

This one doesn't qualify. It could belong to the misfit plant of the month club.

I intend to move it to the front of my juniper screen where it should do nicely and maybe some day qualify for a promotion.

No need to send papers Ken.

Dave

I see - doesn't have to be the main leader, just has to have asserted apical dominance over its fellows on the branch, basically?

I am thinking that I need to learn how to graft...and also take bonsai lessons...really need to clone myself first if I am going to get it all done!

Sara

Let me know if you figure out the cloning process. I'll need to send him outside to do the mulching and watering next summer!

Right Dave. There are dominate tip shoots like you show with your hoopsii.

Dax

The only upright conifer that has more than one dominant shoot is a fastigiate one. Otherwise it would have to be multitrunked and have one per trunk. The terminal shoot of a side branch will develop apical dominance but it has to trained or it goes off at an angle. Different cultivars have different degrees of necessary training. 'Hoopsi' is one of the worse to grow as a nice upright tree, which makes it so expensive. It is also why 'Fat Albert' was developed and marketed. Poorer color but better shape.

Grafters use terminals off of side shoots unless propagating a dwarf selection without any apical dominance.

Thanks Bob - that makes it clearer, and explains the price/cultivar issues. Very interesting. Your plants arrived in perfect condition, btw, and look just great. I plan to get them planted this weekend, now that we've had some rain.

And Will - I'll work on the cloning!

Sara

Here's a pic of my blue atlas Cedar. The plant receives full sun from all sides, so it's not a case of leaning towards the sun. As I stated above, it was straight when planted and you can see the lower trunk is straight. Since planting, all new growth has gone off at an angle. I tried to correct this with staking for a couple of years, but as soon as I removed the stake it snapped back to its desired conformation.

Most descriptions of this tree state that it is unattractive in youth but simply majestic as it ages. Okay, I can accept an ugly duckling in youth, but this is a bit beyond the pale. There are many many blue atlas cedars planted around here, and they all look so nice and straight, I've never seen anything like this before. I have been hoping that as it ages, that this will be less noticeable, but as the years pass I am beginning to lose faith starting to think it'll never grow into an acceptable specimen. Do you think there's any hope for it, what would you do? This was definitely not supposed to go for a weirder the better nomination.

Perhapse it doesn't look quite so bad from this angle, LOL.

Can I tell you how not in the mood I am for my next job: moving ~150 containers (from 5 in. pot up to 5 gal) into the garage in advance of Hurricane Sandy. :0(

Alex

Actually you atlas cedar looks just fine. It will grow nice and straight as time passes with the uppermost part of newer growth always "leaning".

Look at the tops of old Cedrus, especially deodara. They are often leaning for the top 6' (3m) or so with the older growth below that section being nice and straight.

Interesting...I hadn't noticed that before, but that's very reassuring. I'm glad I asked about this. Thanks, Bob.