Thank you all for such thought-provoking comments. They are really helping me work through this undertaking! Sandy, all of your info is appreciated, and I especially liked your comments, "Your land will actually speak to you" and "The right plant will present itself to you when you're at a nursery sometime." I know these are true, and I need to not be in such a hurry! Your spacing and color info is very helpful, but I have a couple more questions (for greenhaven, also). I've seen lots of pictures of perennials mixed in with roses, or a clematis twining through a rose bush. Doesn't this make it harder to care for and prune the roses, and doesn't it limit the air circulation? I have 3 Carefree Wonders that look gorgeous by themselves. Can I plant them closer together since they are the same rose? I have 3 Quietness (very lovely pale pink) and 3 Winnipeg Parks (a pretty red that looks beautiful with the Quietness). I have other contrasting and/or blending of 3 or 4 single bushes that look good together IMO. Is it possible to have multiple focal point groups, separated by low evergreens or green perennials in the space I have and have it look good? I really like informal gardens more than formal, especially with our setting. I've seen lots of pictures of parts of gardens with roses, or formal rose gardens, but I've not seen any plans showing predominantly rose gardens, interplanted with other perennials. Any ideas where I could look at such plans for roses? greenhaven, DH nixed the manure, so I'll put peat in the planting hole in the 12" of top soil. Thanks for the specific info! sunnyrose, thanks for the heads up on the Roundup. I'll check into it further. alisande, thanks for the pic of the large spruce. This, with greenhavens warning, motivates me to go back out and more carefully look where the sun will fall when our spruce is mature. We got our estimate for building a wall today, so we've decided to bite the bullet and do it. One more thing, any opinions on whether I should have structures for my climbing roses mentioned earlier? Or do you think I'll be ok trying them as very large shrubs in the more open background? Anne

"fallen petals are food for the insects and make them healthy". That's a new one for me. Which insects? and is it the insects that are made healthy, or the roses? Please explain. Fallen petals do contribute to soil organic matter if left to decompose on their own, or added to compost. I don't know that it would be a noticeable contribution. I've always tried to pick them up to avoid culturing botrytis fungus. Topdressing with compost or mulching with fallen leaves would do just as much and probably more, than leaving the fallen petals. Mid December is not too early for pruning in SoCal. In fact I've heard of widely-respected rosarians in Portland starting their pruning in mid December. (Up here we're limited by weather and available daylight more than you are, so people prune when they can get out in the garden.) In the SF area (Sunset zone 16 in my case) I pruned in mid January. Yes, some of your roses will still be blooming. Cut those roses for the house first, then go ahead and prune. You won't be able to catch them at a time when none of them are blooming.

Flowermum, my topics are usually intended as helpful threads for all. This one has particularly good posts. I'm glad you found it. Vikki, I'm 'way south of you. I think it's just a universal southern planting. The Knockouts are in front of Winn Dixie. They have a right turn lane cutout, so I can slow down and really look, LOL. BYW, many of the small towns here have landscape people but some have 'plant ladies' -- the plant ladies create stunning displays. Cairo, GA is where I was introduced to pentas and Iceland poppies, and actually saw delphiniums growing in one of the Bank parking lots in the shade of Crape Myrtles! Nell

Hi! The above advice is great, what I have to say is just adding a little to it. If you know you like different shapes next to one another, honestly, that's about all you need to get started with the look you want. Poring over pictures on here, in magazines and books is a good way so see combos you like. You may want to pay the most attention to photos from your zone and region; many times, plants that bloom together in one area don't do that everywhere, and of course there may be many plants in a southern photo that aren't hardy for you. But if you like the look of a plant combo, you can search out a hardy plant that has a similar look. I think "visually interesting" has to do with the eye of the beholder. What you want to achieve may be considered by some to be too busy, or too plain. Since there's no universal perfect look, there aren't instructions on how to get it. What's challenging (and frustrating!) about gardening is the desire to create interesting plant combinations, with bloom colors we think look good together, that maintain flowers or at least an interesting look all season long, are not eaten up by the wildlife and which like our growing conditions. So, gardening books that show photos of the same beds at different times of year would help a lot (I hope there are some out there!). Quite a few posters on Gweb post shots throughout the season. Also, using plants with interesting foliage color and shape really makes a difference, or at least is has for me. At the Bluestone perennials site, you can search with keywords like "spiky" etc.. in order to find plants with a certain color or look. Another resource is Plantfiles, which is hosted by our "rival" garden forum. Plantfiles is great because there are comments and posts from (usually) multiple gardeners about a particular plant. It's not a blurb by someone trying to sell you the plant, it's from gardeners who own it. So, if the plant breeders are lying about the plant, it gets revealed on there! Plus you get all the essential info for a plant: zone, light needs, bloom time, water needs, even pH sometimes. However, sometimes it's wrong about zone, so I like to look up the plant's zone on a couple of sites. I get to the plantfiles listing by using google and entering the plant's name, either the common or latin one, and the word "plantfiles" Best of luck with your gardening!