Mmmm, I love your garden. I like that fence so much, and how great that there's land like that right across the road--'Looks like a nice view, and a nice street too. 'Very old-fashioned looking neighborhood. Some Roses or other colorful climbers (vines, etc.) would look so beautiful growing over that fence. Gosh, I look forward to seeing this when it's all filled in. Thank you for sharing your pictures. :)

Aw, it really isn't that bad! I see no reason why that rose wouldn't make it. I'll defer all plant choices to those who know your zone. But the first thing I thought of was the hardscape, really defining the borders, the grass, the walkways, the seating areas. If you want to see the progression of a garden check out kkmickleson's album on photobucket. I'd link it, but I'm not sure if that is good manners around here. I forgot what her original thread was called.

Do you want raised beds or digging in to the ground you already have? How much change do you want? How much are you willing to do?

Julie

Julie,

I don't really know what I want. When we moved into this house it didn't have grass, nor fence, nor snot. When I started this garden I had no idea what I would do with it. I guess I still don't.

How can I define the borders? I'm not really sure what that means. I like the way it sounds, though. Do you define with stones or plants or what?

If so, how do you do that?

kkmickleson, can I see your garden?

Thanks ever-so-much for the responses!

kc

Kathy,
What a fun project - planning someone else's garden! ;-) My advice, and it could be wrong, but since we're pretty deep into the summer, and the wonderful cool spring, which is so great for starting flowers, is far behind us, I'd agree that this summer you should define your space. Work on "crisping up" your edges. I'd be interested to see if someone else would think a lasagna approach would work for you to get some really good soil started for next summer.

I'd fill in this summer with annuals for some added color. Wait until closer to Fall, when all the perennials will go on sale. You can be thinking about what you'd like to have. I think cone flowers in the back by your fence would be nice. They can get close to 4' tall and would create a nice screen for you. You can do your reaearch on all the other suggestions you got and decide which flowers you love and what will grow gangbusters in your zone.

Then I think you and I should take up winter sowing. I've decided it's my next hobby and fellow member Carrie has convinced me I HAVE to join in the fun. I've been reading and trying to learn. We could tackle it together. What say you? We could muddle through together and by next Spring you'll have oodles of new plants for your prepared beds. I can send you some seeds from my garden for sure. We can make our first mistakes as WS newbies together. That way we won't embarass ourselves as badly.

Potential, potential, potential is what I see. But patience this summer in preparation will probably serve you better. (Man that was a lot of P's!)

Ann

Well it looks like you have a large space, which to me means that it isn't just one strip of planting. Do you see a garden all along your fence maybe 5 feet deep? Or do you see little islands of gardens in the space? Or both? You will need to be able to tend to your garden so you do want to think of making pathways at least deep enough so you can reach all sides of the garden areas. Think of it like a house floor plan, you have rooms with different purposes. What is important to you? Do you want to be able to sit down with some lemonade and lounge? Do you want to grow vegetables? Do you want to be able to cut flowers and decorate your house? All of the above?

Ok, I don't think she'll mind. Here is the link...

Here is a link that might be useful: kkmickleson's garden

I agree with Ann (peat moss). And once you have planned the design and shape of your garden areas, then the next important thing is to prepare your soil. REALY IMPORTANT step here. Tell us what you know about your soil and people will be here to guide you. There may be things that you need to dig in to your soil, or it may be necessary to plant above what you have in a raised bed and add planting mixes. Depends. You'll be gangbusters by spring.

And like Ann said. Plant some annuals for cheap thrills right now. Or if you find a perennial you like, maybe grow some in a pot and if they are happy you can plant them in the spring (or whenever is the appropriate time for you).

Just some thoughts. Lots to think about I know.

Julie

Your clematis might not be dying. It may just have wilt. DON"T THROW IT OUT. Many just get over it. Mine did!

cut your weed tree in your daisy back to the ground. CAREFULLY drill a hole in the trunk and very carefully pour a little bit of brush kill in the hole (do this while the weather is warm, between now and Sept). Cover your little stump with tin foil and let it cool. If you are careful not to spill anything it won't kill the daisies.

I also LOVE that fence, and your ornamental grass and daisies. You may need to spray a little grass killer on that invasive grass...oh, I'm battling the same stuff in my back yard. We got rid of it all in the front yard by doing a compete removal of all "sod" etc. and then composting that soil for 2 years to get rid of of all the weeds. In the back I'm spraying. It's just easier, lol!

GGG

Okay... MYy 101 on soil.

Wormies are good. Get the worms. Sell your children if you have to to get them. (Note: Compost children.)

Worms are but a sign of the greater times (i.e., there must be some great stuff going on in your soil if you do, indeed, have worms).

When I had time to (before the boys), I'd drive 25mi to get bunny poop. Really great stuff. NO weed seed and you could just sprinkle it on the garden without fear of burn.

I used to also crunch up used egg shells. The (limited and spotty) killer soil I have today was a result of that stuff.

Soooo.... The question remains... What do I do with what I have now with the weeds and grass? I can't just "hop" (sorry) down to the bunny farm. (Or, maybe I could... hmmmm...)

Besides, I'm afraid, at this juncture, that if I put yummies on the garden, then horrible weeds will just thrive all-the-more.

Anyways, tell me about the lasgna thing. I think that I know what it's about, and we actually did it in one patch of our yard EONS ago and I don't know that I really remember how to do it properly. I think that we did wet newspaper/bunny turds/I can't remember... then hosed it down and kept it wet and let it sit over the winter months....

kc

You are just starting out, don't be so hard on yourself. You've great space to work with, wonderful fencing. You've gotten some great ideas here to get you going, so just have fun and be patient. It takes time for gardens to grow into full wonderful places. I'm still working on mine and some days feel like I've a long way to go. Every day is a new experience in our gardens, always something to enjoy, even with the hard work and sweat the rewards are worth it.

I just love KKMickelson's gardens. They are beautiful.

FlowerLady

Such wonderful bones you have!
The wonderfully rustic fence in what appears to be a large yard, in what appears to be a nice open neighborhood.
The potential for greatness is there.
You need to get some hoses or something and decide on the layout. Figure out where the beds and pathways will go. Maybe a seating area or two. The structure of the garden should be established before diving into the less "formal" part(I quote because the word really doesn't belong in a CG forum)of plant layout.
I could have fun with that yard of yours.

KathyInKy your daisies are beautiful. Your fence is great! Your peonies had a lot of blooms. There is a good redbud started.

If you don't plant a spot, a weed will grow there!!

I swear by sand and peat moss for the clay soil of central Indiana.

Gee, Mr. M, You present a totally different aspect to my garden than I see. I see the openess as a hinderance (sp?). I, personally, much prefer "tight in" spaces.

For example: I think it would be wonderful to have a privacy fence to block out the neighbors, the noise, the wind (we get wretched wind here!), the sun, the snoops, the etc.

Yes, I do like/love rustic (and I'm so very happy that y'all consider my fence so and I'm thinking I need a readjustment in my thinking in that area :) Would Sweet Peas climb that sucker, cuz I have one that I need to plant...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't consider my garden "cozy." It's truly "out" there. Even if I/we did put a bench out there, it would have no sense of privacy attached to it. We have 2 flag properties behind us. Behind this garden is our neighbor's driveway. Their children ride their bikes, no, motorcycle things up and down and down and up the drive.

I love kids, don't get me wrong. I have two very young and wonderful such rug-rats of my own. I just can't envision a bench or any other kind of a rest spot there.

Maybe we should just move. :)

I love the feedback I'm getting here. I hope and pray that my responses aren't coming off as defensive. I'm just, simply, trying to process and think of practical application stuff.

I would really like/love to hear more about lasagna stuff.

I also think that I need to "shift/move" some of my ornamental grass but I don't know how or when or where. What thinks you?

I would sill love to hear from KKMickelson and see those gardens.

This does look like fun...but a lot of work to restart. If you aren't really up for the work..move what you love to one border and then clean up/clear out the rest and plant grass seed this fall.

If you are up for the work and truely want a cottage garden...and I think the work is worth it...I would do the following:

Clear out everything you have put Round Up on and throw it out with the garbage...DO NOT COMPOST IT. Determine where the edges of your beds will be (borders). I see some rocks in there that look to me like they were intended to be the edging. Gather them up and get some more. I'd dig a trench about 6-8 inches deep around all of the border piling the dug out dirt into the new flower beds. Pick a spot...any spot to begin your lasagna beds. Work in small manageable areas at at time. Turn over the soil using a garden spade in the hard to get to areas and a tiller for the rest (will save your back a lot of aches) then remove any clumps of the grass/weeds/plants that you tilled. If it's grass and plants you can compost it..if weeds throw it out. Smooth it all out with a gardening rake. Lay a thick layer of newpaper or cardboard down. I had clay soil when I did this so I mixed a small amount of peat moss (bagged form) top soil and some fine sand and put it about 6inches thick ontop of the cardboard/paper. Then I put 6 inches of mulch on top of that. By the next summer I could just move the mulch aside and dig in with my hand trowel to plant whatever I wanted. The soil was wonderfully soft and easy to dig in after this "lasagna" treatment. There are a million ways to do a lasagna bed but the idea is to get organic material in there. I added compost one hole at a time once I had the beds layed out and cooking. Once you have all the areas done lay your rock border just inside the edge of the trench to define the beds. As grass begins to grow into the trench it is simple to take your spade and dig it back out so that it doesn't spread into your beds. Throw it on the compost pile. Once you have good compost going...just use it to refill your planting holes when you add plants. Put the dirt you take out of your hole in your compost pile so that all the compost you are making will be added to the old soil. This way you are perpetually renewing your soil. If you have access to cow manure/ bunny manure/ sheep or goat manure compost it for a year before using it to kill any weed seeds. Stay away from horse manure as horses are not very efficient at killing the seeds in thier own system. Do not plant directly in fresh manure as it will burn the roots of your new plants. Turn your compost pile at least once a week and keep it moist..not wet. It has to be turned frequently to keep things cooking and breaking down. Next spring you can move all your plants around so the heights and colors are where you want them and add from there. And say YES to winter sowing. It's a wonderful and nearly free way to add tons and tons of plants that you may not be able to find in your local nursery or greenhouse. I truely believe that the key to my success in addition to the above is to keep your beds well mulched to keep the weeds down if not completely out of there. OH...one more thing. My sis feeds the bird in a major way. She lays river rock on top of landscape fabric under all her feeders so that when seeds do sprout she can just pluck them out. It helps hide the seeds that drop so you don't have an unsightly pile of seed below each feeder. If it gets so that the seeds are still piled up too much she just gathers up the rocks with a spade and then resettles them letting the seed settle to the bottom. The landscape fabric prevents anything that may sprout from penetrating deep roots so they are easy to pull up. I hope this is helpful.

MeMo

Hi Kc, I would agree, you have a very nice area to work with. So many possibilities - roses, penstemon and delphs along the fence, clematis and black-eyed susans climbing over it, alyssum, lobelia and geraniums at their feet with lots of your daisies mixed in for a spark of white - yummy!

As for the weeds and grass, I'd mow them down then cover with wet newspapers and good soil/compost. Sorry to hear you got crummy compost, but you can get it in bulk from weed-free sources. Maybe check with a reputable nursery or landscaper in your area for sources. That's how I found my source and love the stuff. Not a weed to be found.

I also noticed you mentioned not knowing what you want or where. One way to solve that problem is to look at lots of gardening magazines and books. Can you get to a library? If so, many of us can suggest some books that would help you in this area. Once you start looking at other garden photos you'll start to see things you like. Write those elements down. No kidding - make lists 'cause I'm telling you, you won't remember it all. LOL! Take special note of what it is that REALLY draws you to that particular garden pic. For me, it is lots of color and traditional plants. Oh, and trees, big ones. After many years, I'm still working on that aspect at my place. If you see fences like yours, note what's growing in front, up and over them, etc. And research the plants you're drawn to. Make sure they'll work in your area.

I know this sounds like a lot of work, but it's not once you get organized. Get a binder or maybe keep things on your computer in a word doc. You can scan things you like, too. Every little bit helps when you're not certain what to do.

Now about that island of ornamental grass - keep it! It looks great. You can expand it out, maybe border it with rocks and seed/plant alyssum along the edges to spill out over the rock border. The rose will have to be moved even if it's a mini. It's just too close to the tree. Better yet, move the tree. : - )

Ok, that was long for me. I'm on a liquid diet today for some medical tests tomorrow, so I'm only expending energy on my fingers. Maybe I'll just sit here and type all day. LOL! I'll link you to a side border I did lined with local rock.

Keep us posted on your progress! Diana

Here is a link that might be useful:

Hey Kathy, I linked her album page in one of my posts above. Check it out!

I think you've got a great start on your garden! You're getting some fantastic advice too, I'm learning from it myself.One thing I haven't seen anyone say is to mulch. I use shredded leaves. I like them because they break down into the soil and if weeds come up in them they pull up fairly easily. I, too, love your fence. There are so many wonderful vining plants out there to grow. I don't have any fences, so I would love to have yours.
Keep gardening, and keep showing us pictures. We'll all be waiting to see your garden grow.

Thanks, Bugg! Found the link and WOW!!!!!!

I want that when I grown up!

Just look at all of her/his space. What I mean by that is, where is the yard/grass? Awesome!!

I have a TON of things I want to say in response to all that have posted. However, just now, I'm only able to think about feeding my boys... corn dogs vs. pizza (with smoothies that they gobble down but are chock-full of bananas, spinach, apple sauce, vanilla yogurt, cod liver oil....) Stuff like that. Not to worry. They're none the wiser. :)

Sorry; I'm a sneaky mom.

Signed,
Not really sorry at all.

kc

It's easy to feel overwhelmed when you're just getting started. When we moved here, the only yard was the pasture around our farm house that we started to mow and call a lawn. Enjoy the process.

Here is a link that might be useful: Joy's garden

Oh, and I forgot to mention - you don't always have to improve all the soil in your garden at once. I tend to "spot" amend. I dig extra big holes and improve each planting hole. Also I think the best investment you can make is a truckload of 3 way planting mix. It's topsoil, compost and sand. I've never had problems with weed seed in it like I have with purchased compost.

Joy

Hi, Kathy!

Karen here, of the kkmickleson's garden fame. Boy, my ears should have been burning all day. I appreciate everyone's appreciation of my garden.

While reading the thread & seeing your yard, my thoughts go in many directions. There's much good advice above, and what I have to offer will only speak to how *I* would approach the various tasks mentioned by others. It's by no means the *right* way.

First, the idea of defining boundaries & developing a structure as a first priority rings smart to me. What this means is developing a sense of shapes & background foundation plantings for the garden. I'd be helped by seeing a photo of the house from 2 different corners of the fence in this quest, as it's good to choose foundation plantings [often, but not always, evergreens] which nicely carry the eye from the house to the garden, so the garden looks like an extension of the house rather than just some beds plopped here & there.

This may sound less fun than just starting planting, but in the long run, I think you'll be happier.

Relating to perimeter shape, I can resonate with your feeling of being so "out there" & lacking a cozy feel. I also like the fence, but could imagine why you'd want to put up a privacy/windbreak fence. I surely would. Another option would be to plant some hardy roses which grow tall all along the inside of the fence, in a 4' deep bed. [However, as I think about it, if you're new to roses, it might end up being a hassle to go through the learning curve on which ones to choose for your area....] These [or other tall plants] could create a sense of enclosure & also serve as a backdrop for interior beds. Alternatively, there might be some fast growing hedge-type plants to choose--again, think "background" for everything else.

Having resolved that issue, I'd then move on to thinking through the interior. You don't mention whether or not this area will need to accommodate your growing rug rats' needs for a play area. If so, I'd think about which part will be theirs, & how I'd want to connect it to my cottage garden: an arch with a pathway, a low hedge enclosure? Then, I'd want to see the relation of what looks like a cement patio to the whole space, so I could think about the shapes of future beds as they relate to it. Is the patio covered? This will help to figure out seating area needs, too.

On weeds, grass & such, my oft explained approach is a combo of lazy & a strategy to avoid future weeds: it's called spending $ on bringing in very rich soil--a landscaper's planting mix--by the cubic yards, and forming it into raised 1-2' berms. No need to build enclosure for them.

I'm not opposed to lasagne gardening at all. But since I'm a) lazy, and b) partial to elevations in gardens, it just seems to work well to kill off all the underlying weeds & start fresh with excellent soil that's a pleasure to plant in. It also saves a humungous amount of labor.

You may need a grassy area for the kids, but otherwise, I'd skip grass everywhere else. I'd mow down existing grass before bringing in any soil, & either spray with blackberry killer or sprinkle on that 'vegetation killer' all around, except for close to the plants you have. Once that dies off, scrape it out & dump it, leaving a clean open space. I'd mentally prepare myself to be willing to move some existing plants around as my design research proceeds: this doesn't *have* to stay here, I can move it over *there*!

And while all this is going on, I'd be doing the research recommended above on what plants I love, want & how well they'll do in my area. To have all the above done by fall would be a major accomplishment. If you're interested in seed sowing [I admire & respect those who are, but I'm just too dang impatient for it], you can be building up a nursery of plants this winter while zeroing in on what will look good where next spring.

Whew. I think I've already gone on too long, so will stop for now. I hope I'm not discouraging in any way, but being a Virgo, I'm pretty methodical in my approach: first things first. Then on to the next....

Karen

All of the above is excellent advice. Keep asking questions, observing and check out your local library for gardening books. They are usually a wonderful source of information and being able to take them home and study them is pure pleasure!

Clematis vines like to have there roots cool. It can be accomplished by planting plants in front of them, or a pile of rocks or whatever you have handy. The idea is not to let the sun beat down on the root area. Clematis roots will spread up to 1 1/2 feet in our climate (northern MN).

I love to do the lasagna gardening but use the term pretty loosly. The last three properties I had I used a cheater method. I mowed the grass short, then sometimes (but not always) sprayed with roundup. Then I layed down newspaper 7-8 sheets thick or cardboard in the larger spaces, mulched on top of it. I have used all sorts of bark or woodchips, straw (NOT HAY!)grass clippings or whatever I had on hand. If my gardens are in plain and frequent viewing area I tended to use all chips or bark. Then whenever I wanted to plant something, I would brush aside the mulch, cut through the paper, dig my hole and ammend it with whatever I wanted then stick in my plant. Super cheater way but it has worked fine for me. My new home is in the country so I don't fuss so much with being real tidy on the large beds. I alternate mowers so that I can use grass clippings throughout the summer on the beds. It is a virtual compost/lasagna pile in process at all times.

We all started out as beginners. Don't get discouraged, enjoy the process, and keep plugging away. Gardening is like nurturing your children. You didn't know everything you needed to know when the first baby arrived, but you learned and grew from the experiance. Happy learning.

Kathy,

I'm a newbie, too, so if I were to post pics, we'd be in much the same boat. In fact, my bird feeder is surrounded by sunflower volunteers. Whe not?

When I get discouraged, I try to remember that the gardens I love to years to cultivate, and the process is part of the fun. Sometimes, it works.

Good luck

Hi Kathy, You have a good start with great potential.
That wonderful fence is begging for roses and something else you might like, climbing Hydrangea. I grew it on a split rail fence once and it was a welcome addition for winter. I am coveting you Shasta Daisy. I am ready to shovel prune mine. Have tried everything I know to keep it from flopping. The label said 18" tall. It's first year it grew 40" tall so I divided it and put it in a different spot with less compost, still it is that tall. Your's is beautiful. What's your secret???

Like Ann said, get involved in WS with us and you will soon have that wonderful space full of beautiful flowers.
This was my first year and I have plants I never dreamed I could have grown from seed. I'm saving seeds and will be happy to share.

We have been at our mountain property for two years and if you would like to see what hard labor can achieve go to our photo page and take a look. My DH and I have done it all with only a tiller and shovel, and of course a chain saw and loppers to take down the hundreds of trees and undergrowth. It's an ongoing process on our 7 acres.

www.pbase.com/raney

Kathy, you have so much potential! Look at all the excellent advice you've received. You have everyone here really jazzed with ideas and advice for your beautiful space. My advice falls along the line of Mr. Morton's. Plan where the beds will go and the rest will follow. It will be really helpful to also think about extended periods without rain. You can get resentful of gardening quickly if you are dragging yards and yards of hose around to give everything a drink. Since I live in California (i.e. no rain from June to October), ease of water delivery is my first priority. I'll save my rant on global warming for another forum, but good soaking rain is getting harder to come by, even in temperate climates like Kentucky.

Above all, have fun and enjoy this process. Take lots of pictures. It's so gratifying to see what once was and what now is.

Kathy:

You can find lots of good information on lasagna gardening in the soil forum here at garden web. And there is a great winter sowing forum as well. I am in the same boat as you are in terms of starting over and the weeds, but slowly, but surely it will all come together. I am focusing on creating the bed layout and amending my soil. This fall I am planting some evergreens and next year will come the plants! Take pictures of your journey, we all love to see them and they provide inspiration!

Hey Kathy!

I don't know about any of the other previous posters but I sure slept well last night and didn't have one bad dream about your garden!!! In fact, I'm sure you can see now the extreme optimism that we have here for you at the Cottage! Keep us posted!

Julie

Newspaper and cardboard are a gardener's best friends! If I missed it, do you bag your lawn clippings or use a mulcher? If you bag them (or have neighbors who do), they are wonderful free additions to a lasagna bed. You can use anything else that is handy: leaves, horse/bunny manure, junk mail, (shredded) checks, pulled weeds that haven't gone to seed, coffee grounds, alfalfa. Anything that will break down. Layer the ingredients starting with the newspaper or cardboard. Cardboard is really nice because it usually covers a large area, thus less places for weeds and grass to sneak through. If you use newspapers, I use a thick section opened out and heavily overlapped with the next section. I usually top off the bed with either a grass clipping mulch or top soil, depending on how visible the bed will be.

I HIGHLY recommend Winter Sowing and the Seed Trade Forum. Both are highly addictive and highly productive :)

If you would like some seeds to get started, email me, I have a lot that work perfectly in a cottage garden and are great for winter sowing or direct seeding.

Lisa

P.S. Raney, you need to try Becky Shasta Daisies. They have performed the best for me.

Lisa

Don't look at the photos as a failed garden. It just isn't finished yet (and it will always evolve and never be completely finished). You have some good features started. And please know we all have those my-garden-looks-like-crap periods. Nobody is ever 100% happy with their garden. Discontent seems to hit about midsummer.

Think about this. Give yourself some thinking/planning time before you do much. Visit your local library and get Patricia Lanzas book Lasagna Gardening. Also pick up a yummy eye candy book with lots of gorgeous garden photos. Go home, mix up a marguerita, sit in the yard and look at the pictures. Get a few ideas and then start small. One bed or part of a bed at a time doesnÂt sound too stressful. You can always change things later.

I recommend a modified lasagna type as Lisa and Freezengirl suggested. You improve your soil, get control of your weeds, and reduce watering. The basic concept is simple, lots of layers of newspaper to kill weeds and grass. Cover it with grass clippings, bagged manure, chopped leaves, whatever. This all decomposes and makes an amazing difference in your soil. All this stuff will settle to ground level over the winter and be weed free and ready. You will probably feel better about the garden when the weeds are under control and the basic outline of one or more beds are defined.

Remember, you are creating a cottage garden. It is a collection of the things you love. Start today, walk thru it every evening and admire what's blooming and visualize other plants you would like to try next spring.

Wow!! You guys are totally awesome and so kind to share your thoughts, ideas, and advice!

Joy: Your garden photos are lovely and quite an inspiration.

Karen: Some really great sounding advice there! Thanks! The garden is already kinda plopped away from the house. It actually about 15' - 20' away from the corner of our house. Maybe this picture will kind of show you:

{{gwi:694076}}

Unfortunately we aren't allowed to have privacy fences in our subdivision (though we would really love one because we're fairly private people and we have two flag properties behind us.

Our patio is not covered and is too small for me. This picture doesn't show it very well, but you get the idea (note the kite string handle on the roof - ah me - gotta figure out how to get that down from there, lol):

{{gwi:694079}}

Our yard is "rather" large and what I would like to have eventually is cottage gardens around the perimeter with grass in the middle for the boys to play on (and DH LOVES turf).

I have plugged into the WS forum and definetly plan to do a bunch of that this winter. Thanks to all that offered seeds, I will most appreciatively take you up on that and will be sending you emails.

All who suggested lasagna gardening: I did learn a bit about lasagna gardening a few years ago and actually created the corner veggie (ahh.. weed) garden that way. I think I might do some spot lasagna gardening in the garden to help with the weed problem. Thanks!

Raney: I wish I had a secret to share with you to attribute to the success of my Shasta Daisies. The truth of the matter is that I stuck them in the ground a few years ago and there they are. End of story. Your photos are also lovely and I really enjoyed looking at them. My! 7 acres?! Beautiful! You can certainly tell what you've been busy doing.

Bean: I'll see if I can find that book at the library. Thanks for suggesting it. Though I have a basic knowledge of lasagna gardening, I could sure stand to learn more!

Thanks all! You're really getting me fired up!

Hugs!

kc

I know you can't have privacy fences but what about some very tall plants that act as privacy hedges? If you were in California the typical thing to do would be to flank that fence area with oleander, not that I suggest that, but with the right back drop planting you can create a "fence that is not a fence" And wasn't that one of the main attributes of cottage gardening in the first place? You had to keep the livestock from the neighbors out of your property. If you truly want some privacy let's find some easy tall growing thing that you can line around the fence. THEN, what I see inside your space are borders all around in front of the "fence" with curving lines, not just straight... think waves, some deeper than others. Turf in the center for hubby and kidlets to run and play. Extend and/or cover your patio with a pergola for better seating and shade or incorporate that around the garden bed area in a corner maybe. What about trees in your area? What grows well? What do you think?

Julie

Boy, the pix sure help me get the big picture and definitely give a better sense of things. The space is so much bigger than I'd initially thought from the first photos.

First, just out of curiousity, what is a 'flag house'? Is that brick house one?

Second, what is sticking out of the chimney?

Third, what direction does your patio & the rear of the house face?

Referring back to an earlier post, the word "hardscape", in this context, would refer in part to the patio and what, if anything, you plan to do to change it. Is this low on your priority list? Do you want a shade providing covering for it?

Foundation plantings would include a number up against the house to soften the connection of the house to the ground. I'm wanting a lovely tree at the left corner side of the back of the house. Along the back of the house, a number of evergreen shrubs in a 5' deep elevated, sloping [towards the grass] bed--or one which comes out as far as your patio does--in front of which flowering perennials could live, but which would keep it looking like a garden in the winter. Research required re: which shrub options might be good.

If you want a perimeter cottage garden, I'd make berm beds in graceful, curving lines, from 4' to 8' deep around the fence boundaries--possibly bringing one of the curves around to enclose the grasses area. You need to plan them with notions of access for pulling weeds, placing mulch, etc..The deeper parts, ie: 8' parts would need reachability from either side to the middle. The tall growing background plants will be planted against the fence in whatever linear distance between them is appropriate.

Just in front of those background plants will next spring go your tallest cottage plants: dahlias, Pacific Giant delphiniums, hollyhocks, etc. Then, the next height: salvias, agastashe's, etc....working downward in height towards the front of these beds. Be sure to integrate some chartreuse Acorus [a short, arching, evergreen grassy like plant which is still there in winter] around the base of any roses or other taller plants--preferably in 3's or 5's.

Get DH interested in researching the best of various approaches to weed control on the turf, so he's preparing for that.

Finally, back to hardscapes, think in terms of a 2' wide pathway from whatever patio you ultimately want along the curving lines of the planting berms on the perimeter, as your access to gardening in it. This could be as fancy as a flagsone path, or as simple as weedclothed flat surface covered by shredded redwood or cedar.

That's how I'd approach your goals.

Karen

Julie, I like the idea of privacy hedges (though, believe it or not even those are against the rules in this stink'n subdevision). HOWEVER, I think I could pull it off if they aren't to regimented (which would be counter-cottage garden anyway).

Karen, the thing sticking out of the chimney is a vent to our gas fireplace.

A flag property(ies) is a home (or homes) located behind a property. The two houses behind us (yes, the red brick house is one of them) share a driveway that runs between our house and our neighbors. Then the front of their houses face the back of ours. I hate it.

The back of my house where the patio is faces North. Yes, we would love to extend the patio and put a pergola over it (or better yet, cover it completely and then extend a pergola from THAT covering, unfortunately it's just not going to be in the budget for a while.

I agree with both of you about the berms with graceful wavey lines. I think the mission of the remainder of this season is to get my existing garden beds in shape, and then in the fall, lasagna garden some more areas (maybe the back of the house and the corner that you see softened with a tree, Karen. Along the back I'm thinking Hydrangeas up against the house under the windows and then maybe some taller evergreen shrubs in between the windows as my backdrop and then carry the beds forward from there.

I so appreciate everybody's suggestions!

kc

Kathy: I have gardens all around the perimeter of my yard too, and I live in a chain link neighborhood. We can have privacy fences, but most have chosen not to. My gardens came with some really nice "bones" that I probably would have never gotten around to putting in :), Rose of Sharons, rose bushes, tons of crepe mrytles. I think if you space out some bushes and then add layers of plants you can get a seasonal amount of privacy. Cannas are a good plant for height.

I must tell you though, I love that my neighborhood is chainlink. I would never see or talk to my neighbors if I didn't see them while I was working in the yard.

I'm attaching a link to my photobucket account. It has some pictures in there. The landscape photos are not very good, and they are from early spring, but they might give you some ideas.

Oh, and I picked up a hint from the landscaping forum. The closer to the house you plant trees and bushes, the more the feeling of privacy. It's a perspective thing. So if you can plant some bigger bushes closer to the house,(I'm thinking in the vicinity of a patio area) at least you would feel like you had some privacy.

Lisa

Kathy,
Two of the best garden books I ever came across are both written by a women by the name of Cassandra Danz. She is better known as "Mrs. Greenthumbs". I will attach a link to them for you.
She is an extremely funny and entertaining writer and you will not realize at first how much you will learn from her. I lent my copies out (again!) so haven't been able to look up one of her lessons on proportion and perspective in garden design for you. It was distilled into a simple mathematical rule of thumb which I have found to be invaluable through the years. Perhaps one of the other web members would look it up for you? I will post a seperate request for it. I know there was another thread on it at one time.

Freezengirl, I did a quick search at amazon.com and found the forumla you're talking about. It's on page 81 of _Mrs. Greenthumbs Plows Ahead : Five Steps to the Drop-Dead Gorgeous Garden of Your Dreams_. You can see it/read it if you use the "search inside this book" feature at amazon, listed in the book's listing, right under the photo. Just "search inside the book" for the word "formula." It's on p. 81. :)

KathyInKY, if not a privacy fence made from wood, why not make a natural privacy screen using Arborvitae or Hemlock shrubs. Not only are they good wind and sound breaks, they are very symetrical and virtually maintenance free.

When l read your post, l expected to see, the most horrific photo's, your garden is not horrific, just a garden waiting to be developed. Although all this help is being offered to you, a garden is a most personal thing, and l really feel, that working through it yourself, and putting into it, what you yourself want, is the important thing, we all have our own gardens, which we love, but they most certainly are not everyone elses choice, so l would say do your own thing, if you have any real problem, with it, we are here to help you, but we look forward to photo's of your garden, as it developes.

I can't believe you have a rule about privacy anythings!!! I also hate living in a fish bowl and try to enclose as much as I can without feeling smothered. Lisa has some good ideas about dotting shrubs and plants of different sizes to suggest privacy (also you could creat your sitting area near the tallest shrubs for real privacy. at least that way they can't say you are planting a privacy hedge.You have lots of advice from some very creative people here so all I will add is enjoy,enjoy,and enjoy....Plus look at lots of yummy eye candy books!!!Tamara

Kathy, I think of gardening as the journey and not the destination. Each year your garden changes--plants die, plants thrive, you learn, you move things ("that would look better over there"), you "see" new combinations, etc., etc.

I do think soil preparation cannot be overrated. The more effort you put into getting good soil going before you launch into a lot of planting is SOOOOOO worth it because you stand a much better chance of having what you DO put in thrive.

Then I focus on where I want trees for shade, for ornamental accent, etc. Knowing what the environment is going to be as your trees mature will influence what you plant, although you can easily move things around as things mature if they don't fit the spot anymore.

Over the years I bought or read lots of gardening magazines and books. I ripped out articles from the magazines and made notebooks of the ones I liked. Good winter dreaming material! I made lists of plants I wanted to get, played with ideas for different beds.

When you have a big "canvas" to work with, it can seem overwhelming. But after you have all your "bones" work completed, pick one area that you can reasonably tackle and make it beautiful. The satisfaction and pride you'll get will give you courage to do more. It also looks a lot better to have one area completely finished rather than things stuck here and there and nothing really close to completion.

Find out who the top gardening writers for your area are. I live in the Rocky Mtn area and for me I got hooked on Rob Proctor and Lauren Springer. Their books and articles helped me immensely in focusing on what would work in my area. No fun trying to grow things that just don't work for your area. Drive around the established areas of your community and see what others have done. Take your camera and record things you like. Most gardeners are flattered that something likes their work enough to want to take a picture.

I have been coming to this site only the last couple of months but you sure came to the right place! You will learn lots by just looking at what others have done. Welcome aboard (I feel funny saying that having been here such a short time but this group is very inclusive so I think you'll probably feel the same way). Where else could you get people so interested in helping or in celebrating or commiserating our garden triumphs and woes?!

i like your fence, too.

I love your place. Steven is right, decide on the outline of the beds first and how you will water them. Next the bones - to me that's the trees and shrubs.
If you are both private people, for heaven's sake make some privacy. The arborvitae make a great tall hedge, be sure to get the right hybrid. It looks like you might even have room for a double wind barrier. Maybe highbush cranberry in front of the arborvitae. They are low maintainance and require less pruning than many large shrubs, plus spring flowers and fall color.

You have received great advice here. I just might add one other thing and that is, with all your space, you may want to select plants that obtain very large footprints and plant large juniper or yew shrubs here and there, cuz I think you get some snow in zn 6, right?
Good luck, what ever you decide, I am sure it will be gorgeous, cuz you care.
BTW: You mite want to stay away from or greatly limit intense maintainance plants, such as some roses etc, until you have the big part of planning, prep and planting behind you, then if you want to tackle them, great.
jan

Three things I learned to do first...because I ended up doing the beds over and over until I got it thru my thick skull "first things first"!!!

If you do not define your beds and plant the 'bones' you won't ever get quite that...that....'look' you want. And by 'the look' I mean those beds that make your mouth drool with ENVY color="green">

First, mow grass short and then take a long garden hose or extension cord and lay it where you want your beds to be. Create curves and sweeping edges. Look at this bed from all sides and from prime viewing spots such as your patio. You like? Good! Now, spray paint along the hose or cord with black paint (doesnt have to be neon--just need to be able to see it. Try not to paint said hose/cord--lol) Ok, now remove the hose/cord and get an edger or weed-whacker and hit that painted line hard and wide so that you can really see it. Check for smooth curves, nothing harsh or too sharp--remember that you will have to mow along this line. Now, everything between those beautiful lines and the fence is PRIME FLOWER COUNTRY!

Second, prepare beds. I use cardboard and lots of mulch. Follow advice as above.

Third, but no less important....get some backbone lady!! ;o) You really need evergreen things. Especially in zone 6 where winter is a time for dreaming and flat empty beds are depressing. The green of your evergreens creates a nice foil for spring flowers and bulbs, since most grass will still be dormant. It also adds height and density to the bed. Its the matte of your picture...the frame for your flowers and roses. I had so many beds that lacked something...A neighbor pointed out that my yard was totally bare in winter and had no density in summer. I added bones and immediately got what was missing. I wish she had spoken sooner since some evergreens may take a while to reach a good height/size. Now, all 'bones' don't need to be evergreen, but IMHO no bed should be without a few evergreens--tall, medium or short. There are so many varieties to choose from.

I have found that what makes some beds look scrumptious and some look just 'pretty good' is the texture one creates in a bed. This is done with a mix of things but each bed needs the density of evergreens with the various foliages of other plants. I have a friend who had no flowres in her beds (horrors!) Yet, I couldnt take my eyes off of her beds--the texture was incredible!! The foil she created was captivating to me (and I am a thru-and-thru flower and rose ho!!)

I hope these comments have helped you--lord knows they would have saved me a fortune if I had known this from the start!

Below is a link to a garden of amazing texture--she helped me get started (with advice via the internet) when I was a newbie.

Keep us posted.

Ronda

BTW--cute little peeper in the sliding glass door!

I'm truly touched by the time and thought you've all put into helping me here.

I loved the photos too!

The advice you've given me has my little squeeky wheels turning big-time!

I have some specific questions that are a result of this thread that I'll post on other threads.

Thanks you all so very much!

kc

Kathy,
One thing I would like to add concerning the planting of hedges and large bushes close to the front of your house for privacy.

A local tv station did a story about this, in conjunction with the police. Because large, thick plantings close to a house give criminals perfect cover, they suggested adding bushes/shrubs that have thorns ( or spikey leaves )to discourage someone from hiding there. The police advise that windows, in particular, be clearly visible from the street and not be surrounded by over grown vegetation.

Some of the suggested plantings included hollies, roses, barberry and pycanthra ( sp?)

After this story aired, we did some heavy duty pruning, which we needed to do anyway! :-)

Just something to think about since you are at the designing phase of your beds.

Marilyn

what a wonderful work in progress!!! dont let the placing of tall plants bother you! lol i used to have a wonderful flower garden where i lived before buying this house and most of the time my plants got taller than what the seed pack/info card said!! and i usually rearranged a few of the annuals and sometimes a couple of perennials during the early summer to get a feel for what i liked where! i just kept the 'bones' constant! i found out that in a bed that is not up against the house or a solid backdrop should have height at various places so plants are visible from all angles!! good luck with your gardens!!

I noticed these posts were 2005...how bout some updated pictures so we can see your progess..I agree..some great bones.

Hi Kathy,

I have some suggestions for you -- things you can do now since it's not really the time to plant.

You just need to design and make a curvy bed around the perimeter, no deeper than 4 feet except the corners can be a little deeper. If you must go deeper than 4 feet in some places, then you can use stepping stones. Put them in before you plant anything else.

You need an edge so you know where to kill grass! Right now it looks sort of random, but with an edge it's very defined. Inside the edge=no grass and, outside the edge is grass.

Get it professionally edged or rent an edger. Sometimes they are called trench edgers and they are bigger than a pushmower...don't be fooled by a little bitty one -- it won't do the trick. Your area looks too big to do by hand with an edging tool.

Plan on putting down hardwood bark mulch next spring. Thick!

Get a book from the library called "Trees, shrubs and roses for Midwest gardens" by Ezra Haggard. He is from Kentucky (zone 6) In it, he lists some really great trees that will cozy up your place in no time....and Bradford Pear doesn't make the list. My advice: Get rid of it. On the inside covers, he has some landscape plans, one of which you could certainly utilize.

When you plant trees, the normal landscape way it to put them in the two back corners, maybe 8 feet from the fence corner, but you could probable make it more attractive by framing a view instead. Here are some questions to ask yourself. Is there a view you'd like to screen? Is there a view you'd like to frame? Are there overhead wires of any kind? Will it block the fierce western sun? Will it block the view from the patio or kitchen sink window? Is it in a low, wet spot or a high dry spot? Will it make YOUR home more attractive from viewing from the neighbors?
That's all I can think of, but there are probably a lot of other questions...just *think* before you plant anything big like a tree.

Good luck!
Lime

Kathy - you are killing me!! I was so laughing at the "Compost Children" statement I almost had tears. I tried sticking mine in the compost pile once, but they seemed to think helping mommy shovel the stuff into her wheelbarrow was fun!!

The first thing I would do is establish the micro-climates in your yard. What is shady, what is full sun, what is bogish, extra dry, etc. Once you've establshed these you can start planning your beds. For me, I use a can of white spray paint to define my beds. Spray a line of where you want the bed to be. Once you are happy with the way it looks, dig out the grass, lay down a good amount of newspaper and mulch to smother any remaining grass. While defining your beds think about any paths you want to add. There are all different kinds of paths you could create (brick, decomposted granite, gravel, pavers, etc). Paths tend to break up any monotony, allowing friends or family to have various places to explore.

Since you live in zone 6 (like myself) I'd suggest going for drought tolerant plants in the sunnier spots. Sedums (there are lots of them) are great for full sun areas. Sedum 'Brilliant' has huge dinnerplate pink flowers. Herbs are another good option, as are Butterfly bush, ornamental grasses, cannas (and other tropicals). You'll have to do your homework to discover what is going to work. One of my favorite plant sites is www.bluestoneperennials.com. Not only do they sell great plants, but they include lists of plants that do well in dry, hot climates.

If you have any shady spots you can look at ferns (Cinnamon and Japanese Painted are two of my favorites), astilbes, goatsbeard, lungwort, creeping jenny, tierrella, and the all popular hosta. There are more to choose from than just this, but you'll have to find what calls to you.

As for your birdfeeder, try using a mixture that doesn't set seed. I've found at least three that I like. If that isn't an option, use a seed catcher (found at most gardening centers) under your feeder.

Don't forget to use pots and ornaments for whimsy.

To prevent burnout I'd suggest on working on one area at a time.

Have fun!!