For question no. 4: one option is to visit a local arboretum or botanic garden to see how they are growing various types of conifers.

Good luck!

If you want a blue conifer, try Pinus monophylla - far more heat and drought tolerant than Blue Spruce.

Resin

Being in zone 9 I would only speak to the heat issue we have in common. I'm in Oklahoma and we just finished a typical August with 10 days over 100. I have had and lost several varietals from your list at one time or another and all due to heat....not necessarily just from direct sun, but from combined heat, humidity and sun. From what I've heard about your area at least you still cool down some at night from cooler air coming off the ocean after long hot days. So that will help you.

But I can tell you the most heat tolerant blue spruces by far appear to be Fat Albert and Hoopsi. Another varietal that has only been here in the last couple of years and doing very well in our heat is Bizon Blue. We have extreme high heat and humidity and these survive much better than most other varietals.

As for the others, just try and limit the direct sun exposure by locating them in places where other trees or structure shadows will help you to break up the day.

hey dude ...

lots of historical posts that cover all this hundreds of times over ...

i will sum it up.. as long as the caffeine buzz holds ....

NEVER amend the soil ... reuse native soil ... and try to get rid some of the potting media that comes with them ... if possible ...

almost ALL conifers prefer full sun ... some can take some shade ...

some form of root pruning is advised if roots go round and round in the pot ....

insure PROPER WATERING ... though they all like a good drink.. most like to NEARLY dry in between waterings ... insert finger in soil .. and water when the plant needs it.. its an art.. not a calender science ...

and.. insure proper planting ... depth is very important ...

and finally .. mulch properly.. to temper water needs and cool the soil ...

i will leave it to others to decide if you are trying grow zone appropriate conifers in your z9 .... the one thought i have is picea pungens.. COLORADO blue spruce... and at least two things easily come to mind.. one.. its cooler in the elevation of mountainous CO .... and that surely does not correlate to CA .... and CO has a real winter... which you dont.. which might be important to some conifers ... my point is simply if you think about where a given plant is native.. you should quickly see that CO is NOT CA .. lol ...

good luck

ken

All,

Thanks. I appreciate all your advice.

Sluice, I particularly like the arboretum suggestion as that speaks directly to the local problems.

Textjagman, thank for the specifics. I see a couple of living blue spruce alive and well in my tract and have tried to figure out how they do it. Maybe it's the variety.

Resin, I may add more later but I own these right now and bought them on an 800 mile trip so can't easily return them . Got the Blue Spruce at the Home Depot for $27.88 (4' to 5' designation but it's over 5'). So if I off it, it's not like paying $150 at Green Thumb. I still want to make it work.

Ken, I looked over the FAQ before I posted. I know it's a pain to re-answer the same question over and over. I appreciate your patience and advice. I gotta tell you tho, I'm conflicted over the divergence of opinions on soils and the use of amendments that I find on the web.

Again, thanks all.

Spike

Hey Spike. The recommendation to use "native" soil is absolutely correct....unless any ammendments to be made are going to be added over a large area...basically the entire ultimate root zone of the plant(s).

But this is for in-ground plantings. For containers, which you intend to use for some of these trees, a much different soil is needed, one with lots of perlite, pumice, or other drainage aid. Compost is also good in container mixes. If you use regular field soil in potted plants, it is apt to collapse, structurally speaking, and become too dense. So, two very different soils will be needed.

Is Mission Viejo low or high elevation? This will help in making predictions as to the suitability of the plants you've got, for your area.

+oM

Thanks. I called the local arboretum and they said much the same thing about soil.

I'm at a low altitude. My GPS says about 500 ft above sea level.

Thanks,
Spike

Always avoid planting in pockets of different material, surrounded by other material. Details are secondary, the key point is having a uniform soil texture throughout the entire potential rooting area.

Folks,

I hear the "native soil/don't create pockets" argument but I don't have room to plant these conifers 10 or 20 feet away from everything else in my yard. So I'm thinking that a pocket (even maybe with an intentional barrier around it) might be a way to keep invading roots for nearby larger trees from taking over the "new kid's" space. I've planted lots of azaleas in big pockets of pure peat under trees and they've grown huge.

Again if I could put these plants away from all the other trees in my yard, I could easily see the "native soil" argument.

Put another way, making it easier for roots from the new plants to move into the surrounding area seems to cut two ways, i.e., the surrounding trees (big canary island pines, liquid ambers and malalucas) might just as easily invade the new trees' space if the rooting area was all the same.

Am I milking w/o a bucket here? Or do special circumstances sometimes argue for special solutions?

I freely admit that I came here looking for advice and appreciate all that I've gotten. But w/o writing a book, it was difficult to tell you everything about my circumstances.

So with this new info, what say you all about using only native soil? Is it still the only way to go?

All the best,
Spike

Plant where you want to plant. What soil you take out of the hole, put back in. As for other roots, the existing pine roots may help your new pines with the mycorrhizae fungi population they have. Any barrier you use would likely interfere with your new plants' growth.

tj

Yeah, don't stress out about this..just keep it simple. Plant where you want to, don't adjust the soil unless you are going to do so over a wide area, do expect competition from existing larger trees (I have no idea bout the rooting characteristics of palms), and do something proven to help in all cases, like mulch the new plantings. Water mgt. is the key.

A side note: Until this past winter, I had the largest silver maple in the city in which I live located in my backyard. Even stalwart plants like hostas could not thrive anywhere under this giant's enormous crown. The hostas, for example, would be planted in nice rich, compost-amended soil, would do well for a year or two, and then would just get smaller every year thereafter. But this is a maple, among the most aggressively rooting of tree genera. The fact that the hostas had nice soil around them and got watered occasionally only hastened the maple's roots colonizing the hostas' planting area.

+oM

Palms have very limited root systems, this is how it is possible for contractors to move quite large ones.

I have no palms, only canary island pines, liquid ambers, monterey pines and malalucas (plus some assorted smaller trees).

Thanks again to all for your advice. I love the www and also try to give back (but mostly relating to Koi).

Spike

My bad, Spike. Somehow got it in my head that you had mentioned palms. Speaking of which, and in view of the smallish rootsystems Bboy mentions, I wonder how it is that palms so often line the coasts of islands in the tropics. Must get some mighty winds in those locales.

Oh, wrong topic, and wrong forum!

+oM

Spike, you ask whether native soil is the only way to go.

I've had very good results with amending backfill for the planting hole. Much of my soil is an unruly compacted clay. The other day I was putting in a new Picea pungens near a Cupressus arizonica that's been in the ground over a year. While digging a hole for the spruce, I confirmed that the cypress had freely rooted out of its initial planting hole and into the surrounding clay; it's put on a lot of new growth this year and seems happy as a clam.

In Mission Viejo you will have a tough time with your Spruces over the years.
They may be look ok for the first couple years but usually they will start to look beat up or die.
I have seen several mature Picea pungens around.
There is one I have watched growing for many years in Chula Vista CA which has a climate like yours, but again the ones I see are just growing and not looking great or even good.
Best luck with spruces is to place them so they are not exposed to to much mid and late afternoon sun, recomend that for the Auria also.
The Bosnian and Thunderhead will do great, Thunderhead will not be a dwarf for you, once established it can grow a couple feet per year unless candles are pinched back.
Do not ammend your soil prior to planting just make sure it is plenty broken up and the hole is large and pound the soil firm in the bottom of the hole so tree does not sink below ground level later.
If you have clay make sure to dampen and break it up fine before filleng hole,do not leave air pockets.
water well and deep but allow it to dry a few inches deep between waterings unless soil is well drained. no puddling around the base. bark and mulch help to keep roots cool and retain moisture.

I would recommend Cupressus forbesii and Cupressus stephensonii, both very beautiful drought tolerant native conifers to Southern California
, they are both being offered by Univerist of Idaho seedling nursery via mailorder at two dollars per seedling or by Las Pilitas nursery in Paso Robles for a bit more.