Hi, welcome to the FN!!

I would like to give you 2 options...

If you spray roundup on a calm day when there is no rain in the forecast you will be fine. Calm for there to be no damage to your good plants and no rain so that the roundup has a chance to be absorbed by the plant.

Why not roundup and then put a piece of thick plastic or landscape fabric down with a top layer of crushed pea gravel? If you do not use roundup to kill the perennial weeds/grasses they will just come through and around and up the landscape fabric.

Crushed gravel would be pleasing to the eye and very low maintenance for you.

Over time you will have dirt blow in and weed seeds blow into your crushed gravel and weeds will once again start. Just grab your roundup and give it a dose again at that time.

Do a little checking on the use of roundup. It doesn't scare me at all. If you use it correctly, just like any other chemical, you will have no problem with it. I live on an acreage and use a lot of it to keep weeds under control and when starting new beds or keeping grass out of existing beds.

Option 2..

What you could also do is put down roundup, wait until all weeds are dead, then dig a few holes about a foot apart, amend the soil there, plant daylilies in each hole using the same kind of daylily in the row, then place on your fabric and crushed pea gravel. You will have to water until the daylilies are established that first year. Get all the same kind of daylily. Put an ad in the local paper for daylilies if you wish or on freecycle. Even the old fashioned tall daylilies would work for this. I have seen a back lane fenced area done like this and it looks great in the summer. In the winter the daylilies die down and they are no problem. In the fall just mow down the foliage on the daylilies and viola, done.

What do you think??

Brenda

Wow Brenda - my exact same thoughts about everything you mentioned, except I was thinking of Karl Foerster grass instead of the daylilies and crushed rock instead of pea gravel but really, same difference.

I agree with Brenda's and Pudge's ideas. Either one would look great.

Welcome to the forum!

Laurie

Wow. Thank you! That is perfect advice. Practical, pretty, and appropriate for my zone. I may never buy another gardening magazine. This forum is better. I think I'll do the roundup, pea gravel, with daylilies and Karl Foerster grass in a few places to keep it from looking too dead. I'll post pictures when it's done.

Now... what other summer projects can I dream up.....

You are welcome.

We all will definitely want to see the before and after pictures of your back lane. Even step by step pictures of what you are doing with the back lane would be great.

Be sure to post your pictures in the gallery section of the FN. Being that you are new to the FN, did you notice the conversation and the gallery sections of our forum? I love the gallery section...all the pictures are so inspirational! If you need help posting, just ask.

Brenda

I possibly have another suggestion. How about putting in some shrubs. Spireas are nice as well as the Little Leaf Lilac (which smells oh so nice) Spireas come in many different sizes as well as leaf colour.

Personally, I hate my crushed rock. I much prefer bark to be laid down. It seems to be much easier to keep the weeds at bay.

Shelley

I've been itching to get my 2 cents in here but my internet connection is messed up and I couldn't post last night... I was going to recommend daylilies too. I agree with Shelley 100% about gravel and rock. Your landscape fabric or newspaper or whatever you use will be ineffective in a few years, and face it, if you have any weeds that spread by underground rhisomes, they will eventually come through and you will have a mess of weeds, ruined fabric, and gravel that you will have to pick off by hand. Round-up does not kill Canada Thistle or Quack Grass. It just kills off the top bits and those fleshy roots lurk underground waiting for a chance. Believe me, I speak from experience.

Bark, on the other hand, only lasts about 5 years, and you can easily move it aside and weed through it (if necessary). By the time the bark is coming to the end of its life, your daylilies and KF grass should have filled in enough to keep most weeds down, and you can just touch up with new bark if you want or let it go.

Look for the old fashioned, cheap (or even free) daylilies. They fill in so much faster than the newer ones and are easy to get. Kwanso, H. fulva, and that nice burgundy one with a white stripe (don't know its name) are good bets (I love the burgundy one). If you want something a little shorter, I have one called Bonanza that multiplies quickly and is old and easy to get.

Looking forward to hearing what you do!
Gillian

Unless your back lane is quite wide, I'd be cautious about using shrubs because of snow removal. A shrub could be crushed or sheared off completely if the snowplough got too close, whereas this wouldn't be a concern for perennials. Just another thing to consider for you.

Laurie

Gillian, there is a really great article on Quack Grass and its control at

http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h507quackgrass.html

I have also had to reapply roundup occasionally. But if you apply it when the plant is actively growing and when there is no rain in the forecast it is the best chemical to use.

We had Canada thistle really bad in the garden when we started the garden years ago. For Canada Thistle the mixture is a stronger solution. We applied the roundup when the plant was somewhere between 6 inches and a foot and we got rid of the thistle in there.

I buy Roundup WeatherMax by the large 10 litre jug to use here on the acreage and have a backpack sprayer to apply it with. There is an article on it at...

http://www.monsanto.ca/monsanto/layout/weedcontrol/spring.asp

Brenda

Brenda, thanks for the quack grass article. I personally don't have it anymore, but my old lawn was entirely quack grass and I am a wily veteran of its control. I liked this paragraph from the article...

"you can be assured that the rhizomes will creep along until there is an area in which it can send up a shoot. Rhizomes will have to be hand dug as much as possible without breaking them off in the soil, then dried and disposed of." i.e. mulching doesn't kill it, just makes it have to try harder. And WRT chemical control, "One problem with using glyphosate on quackgrass is that up to 95% of the lateral buds on the rhizomes are dormant even though the plant is actively growing. Since herbicides are translocated from the leaves to actively growing plant tissue, after about 7 days the glyphosate degrades and the dormant lateral buds will start to grow new shoots. It may take more than one application to completely eradicate quackgrass." Nuff said.

I don't know if DIYmadness has quack grass or Canada Thistle but I just wanted to warn about them. Canada Thistle has an iceberg-like root system (mostly under the surface) that usually features several fleshy roots and buds waiting to break the surface for every actual thistle you can see and apply Round-up to.

I don't think Round-up is evil or useless, but I haven't found it to be a cure-all. I have sprayed it on quack grass, thistle and caragana, and they didn't miss a beat. I have found it much more useful on annual weeds that rely on seeds to spread.

I have a spot that is similar, behind the fence a two-foot deep strip by the back lane. Mine is half grass, half creeping charlie weed, and dandelions throughout. As mine has some grass I usually mow regularly and spray with killex in hopes that the grass will eventually thicken up. It might not, too shady. Hence why the creeping charlie is taking over.

If I were to redo that area, personally I wouldn't want to go to a great expense because I really don't see this area from my yard. Plus, part of me would be worried about damage from car tires, heavy icy snow piled up, or people walking on my plants, but maybe that's just my back lane.

As for bark it's a great idea, as long as the bark is sort of held in the bed with some edging or something. The bark in my front flower bed is fairly light and has a way of ending up on the sidewalk in front of the bed. Gravel would at least have some weight to it.

You don't really mention how deep this area is. One thing I did see someone in my back lane do was place clay floor tiles across the area to smother out weeds. It was maybe a 12 foot by two foot area. It's probably not the most original or garden type solution. Another house down the lane has a one foot strip of soil between the garage and the back lane. They have daylilies and I agree, it looks quite striking in summer once established.

Glen

DIY, I have the same kind of area. I just held a large piece of cardboard against my fence and sprayed away close to the weeds with Roundup. I find as long as you direct the spray exactly where you want it to go you'll have no problems. In my garden I use a milk jug with a hole cut in the top. Holding the handle I can cover the weed right to the ground. Then I spray into the hole. If removing the jug would allow the weed to touch any plants near it, I just leave the jug there overnight.

Another plant you might want to consider with a great mix of color is yarrow. They are very tough. Mona

Mona, thanks for the milk jug idea with roundup. Every once in a while I will find a perennial weed tight into the perennial flower. This idea would be great to use.

Another idea that my girlfriend uses is to put on a pair of rubber gloves, then a pair of cotton gloves overtop. Then she dips into a container of roundup with her thumb and index finger. By sliding the wet glove fingers up and down individual leaves of grass or weeds growing amongst her perennials she is able to control where the roundup is applied. She said that this works great for the thin pieces of grass that sometimes grow into your perennial bed. She just mentioned that to me this winter and so I have yet to try it in my flowerbeds.

Back to the backlane problem...
What you could do also is to dig a trench along the fence and put a deep barrier of some sort in there. That way if a perennial was planted there...say, goutweed, yarrow or an old fashioned daylily then you wouldn't get them spreading into your yard from under the fence.

Paving the area in the backlane would be costly but might solve the problem for sure, but there would be no flowers to look at then. :)

Brenda

I'm going to let you know about my experiences with thistle and round up. I used to spray them all year. Then I'd have babies popping up all over. Then I read somewhere to spray them in August. I leave them alone until then, and then hit them hard in the fall. The kill is way better.
As far as quack grass, it is hard to get rid of. The quack grass always grows faster and taller then seeded grass. I use a sponge soaked in round up and just rub the leaves of the quack grass.

Thanks again everyone.

Shelley and Gillian, thanks for the advice on rock vs. bark. I agree that bark is much nicer looking and easier to deal with. I put a lot of energy into removing tons of crushed white rock from my property when I bought it. It just looked so institutional to me. My worry about bark is that it might be too light and just end up drifting or being kicked into the lane. Glen, good idea about some kind of edging. Maybe a pressure treated 4x4 or something. I wonder if that would also help deter cars from hitting my fence (3 hits in the last 3 years). Probably not, since the strip is only about a foot wide. I also agree that I should probably put some kind of edging on the inside (by the fence). How deep does edging have to go to prevent the spread of invasive plants (goutweed, for example)?

I'm not sure what kinds of weeds I have out there. I've never learned the names of weeds. I guess I'll try the round-up. I'm generally quite wary of using herbicides and pesticides because I have pets that spend all summer lying, rolling, and playing in the yard. Don't want to hurt my babies. But since this is outside the fence, I'd feel more comfortable.

I can't wait to get going on this. I'm going to fix the fence too and repaint it. The neighbours will be so happy. Hey, here's an off-topic question. The fence is stained a kind of rusty red. I'd like something more subdued. Do you think a grey stain would cover red?

It's sunny and warm today. I can feel spring coming. Thanks again to everyone for your generosity with your time and advice.

Now I can picture the area you are talking about. What kind of sun does the area's get? My DM has a similar area. She used flagstones and different sized rocks and bark and put a variety of plants here and there. Her area is on the north side of a fence. She planted mosses, bergenia and hostas.(And more, but I can't remember what.) I do love this area of hers though.
As far as stain, I have never used it. So I can't help you there.
Shelley

A solid stain would definitely cover the red completely. My deck went from brown to green last year, and no brown shows at all. Transparent stain wouldn't work. I know Home Hardware can mix any color of stain you want, so I'm sure everyone else can too.
Connie

Thanks again. I think I'll stain the fence dark grey -- any plants would stando ut against that nicely, I think. The area outside the fence faces west, so it gets the hot afternoon sun. I think the ground there just bakes all summer. I hope daylilies will survive.

Another nice thing about dark grey - it will absorb sun during the day rather than reflect it on the plants. That could help reduce problems with sunburn. I painted the bottom of the south side of our old shop black for that reason. Before I painted it, grass had a hard time, with that silver reflecting all the heat. Afterwards, it did quite a bit better, and the rhubarb I planted did wonderfully.
Connie

Valleyrim I also use a small paintbrush and cardboard. Hold the grass blade on the cardboard and paint the roundup on from top to bottom. Paintbrush is also good for just dabbing at weeds you can see starting to come up. Saves me bending completely over to pull - I just reach down with the brush and dab it. Mona

This is a great thread - so many awesome ideas! Just one question though...

I have a smiliar situation at the back of my house, however before I go to all the work of beautifying it I would like to find a way to keep the neighbour's dog from using it as his personal bathroom! I will obviously be talking with the neighbour about this, but it would be nice to have some preventative measures to keep the dog or any other neighbourhood animals out.

Any humane ideas?

Thanks!