hi

the issue for me.. is your description of how dark it is ....

i doubt anything is going to thrive .. in what you can heavy shading .... there just isnt going to be enough photosynthesis to grow the roots.. to THRIVE.. and i keep using that word on purpose ...

there is a big difference between coping.. and thriving ..

frankly .. depending on the level of light .. just about anything will live ... its all a matter of how well ...

i have 2 picea pungens in full shade ... i would say the annual growth rate is 1/3 of normal .... and they are sparser .... but they are doing ok ... and retain their blue longer than if they were in hot sun ....

so ... i think you are just going to have to experiment .... as to what will tolerate.. your version of your shade ...

and.. are we presuming you are avoiding hemlock????

ken

I like hemlocks, but I am avoiding Tsuga canadensis because of the Adelgid. I could potentially try a cultivar of another hemlock if there was one that fit. Although there is a 4 foot 'seedling' growing just outside my backyard on the other side of the fence and that looks ok so far.

At my last house I had a Tsuga sieboldii that I grew from a seedling but it stagnated and only grew an inch a year until it finally died at about 16 inches tall.

It's not really dark there now as it has some sun exposure on the west side of the location, but the Norway Maple does provide heavy shade and the roots are pretty dense.

Chamaecyparis obtusa, abies balsamea and Picea omorika seem to handle quite a bit of shade for me. But, as Ken mentions, it depends on the shade. Even with the trees mentioned, the shade will vary depending on if your planting on the north or south side of them.

tj

Abies balsamea is rated by the Forest Service as being the most shade tolerant conifer of the Great Lakes region. When I first read this, I was a bit surprised, thinking hemlock would occupy that position, but there you go.

The OP does state he's looking for low-growing stuff, so didn't chime in with that one myself.

+oM

Yes I would prefer stuff that is more shrub-like as opposed to tree-like in form.

I think that would most likely rule out Spruces and Firs unless I found a dwarf or low growing cultivar.

I hadn't thought of Chamaecyparis obtusa. I know there are some cultivars of that that would probably work. I'll have to look and see what I can find.

I hope this won't sound too trite, but it would be best to look at nature and note few conifers spend much time in the shade. The Abies balsamea suggestion still requires part sun to do well, and it is reportedly pretty shade tolerant. Save the conifers for a sunny spot and put woodland understory plants under the trees.

one effect of deep shade.. is for yellowish plants.. to stay green.. to increase the photosynthesis ...

ergo ... the yellow edged obtusas .. will be much greener ...

is there any way to thin the canopy.. or raise it.. to increase the sunlight.. to take it from dark.. to dappled????

removal of one large tree can make all the difference in the world ...

any chance at a pic????

ken

I have thinned the canopy out quite a bit. Last fall I cut off all branches from the Norway maple and two White Ash trees that were lower than 25 feet. And I thinned out some of the others that were higher than that in the hopes that it would help. Under the maple is definitely the heaviest shade and I hope to thin that out more once I borrow a climbing harness sometime soon. I want to thin out many of the interior branches and leave the main trunks up to 40 or so feet. I would like to cut the maple out completely but it really is the main shade tree in the backyard. That wouldn't go over well with the wife. :) But I hate the thing. Always pulling up seedlings from it.

I feel ya about Norway maple seeds sprouting, RI. Many of the properties that I do maintenance at have one or more of these trees around, and true to their shade-tolerant maple heritage,
the seedlings thereof come up in every hosta, daylily, or any other clump of landscape plant present. Truly frustrating to deal with. But I'm not hating on this tree generally. While it is certainly a problem in wooded areas due to its ability to outcompete many native trees, in the midst of the city, where this is not a problem, I still think it a good all around workhorse tree. Folks just have to know what they're gettin into when they plant one!

Maybe mentioned already, but if you could source Taxus canadensis-not sure if it is even available-you'd have the pre-emminent low-growing shade tolerant understory conifer, plus be helping a threatened species survive.

+oM

The canopy on the Norway Maple spreads out about 60-70 feet from the trunk, easily dwarfing that of the two ashes, which probably only have a combined canopy of about 40-50 feet.

I'm also planning on placing a Thuja x plicata 'Green Giant' off to the edge of my property on the north side where it is sunniest.

The entire area gets partial sun from the west, but from the south and east it is almost entirely shaded.

I found a nursery nearby me that has some small Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Crippsii' at a good price, so I may try one of them. I get wholesale prices there :) :)

I saw some semi-mature Taxus baccata 'repandens' at the University of Rhode Island nearby ... I need to revise my sense of scale. Three of those may end up taking up about twice as much room as I initially had planned for.

Taxus canadensis ... hmmm. I'll see what I can find.

Here are some pictures (1600x1200) in case anyone wants to view the area in question. I posted thumbnails because they are large. Granted, these were taken at about 8pm tonight so they're a little dark.

From an east facing perspective, the ash trees are on the left and the maple in the center/right, depending on the picture. The smaller trees are 5 six to eight foot clump river birches and one 5 foot Taxodium distichum. So I am looking for plants to use around and under all of these trees.

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Shade Plants:

Shrubs:
Acer palmatum (Japanese Maple)
Buxus ("Boxwood")
Daphne (Try the plant  ÂCarol Mackie daphne)
Enkianthus
Euonymous (any)
Hydrangea (any)
Ilex ("Holly")
Rhododendron/Azalea (Deciduous or Evergreen)
Rhodotypos scandens
Symphoricarpos ("Snowberry" Â birds love this shrub for itÂs attractive & edible white berries)
Tsuga canadensis ("Hemlock") Tons of cultivars  all are suited for shade. Tsuga ssp. (whooly adelgid host)
Picea orientalis ÂSilver SeedlingÂ
Taxus ssp.
Picea orientalis ÂSkylands will not be as golden but will grow well.
Thuja occ.  most should do ok  especially the variegated clones and slower-growing clones.

Dax

That gives me a few other options. Unfortunately I can't do deciduous plants. Or Rhody's or azaleas. My dogs become woodchippers and my plants become two inch nubs, so that's why I am going with conifers.

Thanks for the advice.

In that case, my first choice would be some gold forms of Taxus. Here's some in my garden. Wish I knew the variety.
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That looks like Taxus bacatta 'repandens aurea'

I am placing the order for the first round of plants:

3 Taxus bacatta 'repandens'
1 Chameacyparis obtusa 'crippsii'
1 Thuja x plicata 'Green Giant'
3 Lecothoe axillaris
4 Hydrangea macrophylla (4 different cultivars)

And I have a bunch of yellow Daylilies and native purple irises to plant as well.

Later I will probably add some Microbiota decussata, but I want to see how the spacing works out with these plants first.