Abies Koreans 'Silver Show' losing needles

13 years ago

Good Morning all

I have a recently planted Abies Koreans 'Silver Show' that is loosing needles...it is located in an area of the yard that is a bit damp, ...do abies in general need well drained locations?

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Comments (10)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
how recently???

transplanting conifer in july is worse than a bit of water

more facts please .. and define whether there is standing water.. versus a DAMP soil .... and discuss drainage ... is there air in the soil ... or is it a bog???

ken
robbandthedogs
Original Author
13 years ago
Newly purchased, located approx 1 month ago, soil damp, not boggy, clay/sand type about 1 foot down...loamy topsoil...maybe woodchips too close to root zone....I have pulled all woodchips back about a foot now...
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p abies dropping needles, why?
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Asking a Ken question: where are you located? Here in the central valley of California we have long, hot, arid summers. Except for Picea pungens, every spruce I have that is not shaded has burn, needle drop, and dead branches on their south and west sides. The most damage seems to happen during especially hot days when the sun is at a low angle, with fall being the worst here. That may explain why you noticed more damage this winter. Like yours, their north sides are beautiful but the south...yuck! A nurseryperson suggested they may need more water so they'll be getting supplemental irrigation this summer. However, it's slowly starting to sink that many Picea are simply not adaptable to full sun in our climate here. I wonder if an antidessicant helps prevent sun scorch? Barbara
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As I said in my note above, I do have an Icebreaker that is doing pretty well in almost full shade. But I have grown several koreana's from one gallons to 5' tall B&B's and can tell you if it gets direct sun, especially mid-day or afternoon sun, it will burn here. I also have a Gelbbunt that is doing pretty well so far with only a couple of hours of morning sun. In fact I haven't had virtually any luck with any Abies in this area other than in pretty full shade. The ony exceptions have been Abies proceras. I am constantly pushing the envelope trying to micro-climate and raise things beyond their comfort zones. But it's high risk here and I know judging by most of your posts here you are a person that want's fairly low risk. So I'm just trying to give you fair warning. As for why retailers sell them here, other than the specialized local nurseries, like for us TLC, most big box stores just get a precentage of what a general buyer splits up from a major buy. Not much attention is paid to zoning on a lot of the larger nursery stock. I think now that Home Depot and Lowes are starting to offer the one year guarantee, that will change soon and they'll educate their sales staff better as well. mark
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donn ... fresh growth.. will snap like a carrot ... so we dont do it quickly .... but we will it upright.. WITHOUT BREAKING IT ... later in the year.. or even next year ... trust me.. i have broken enough of them to know there is no hurry ... also ... the tree will pick one or two.. and they will ... on their own.. sooner or later.. start upwards ... and then is the best time to choose one and pull it even straighter upwards ... and if that is next spring.. then i would bud prune the other .. and might even leave it there ... but giving the other dominance thru length ... will ... august will tell us.. which buds are able to really take the heat ... maybe they will thrive.. maybe they will fail ... with plants that can live 100 years.. you just dont get the fast answers you guys want ... this is a new phase in its life.. and in the next year or 3.. we will watch it.. and make appropriate decisions .. or forget all about it.. and take off duplicate 4 foot leaders in 5 years.. lol .. ken
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Hi Chester grant, it is unlikely that your little tree is grown from a cutting. I'm not sure whether your "layered branch" is referring to air layering, which I've never heard of with Firs or a grafted side branch which is the most likely. It is also possible that your tree is a seedling. Abies koreana 'Silberlocke' seedlings come "true to seed" in the sense that many seedlings have the characterictic recurved needles showing their silvery undersides. I know that there are 'Silberlocke' seedlings in the trade as 'Silberlocke', I think I may even have one myself. As far as the staking goes, it is not at all unusual that your tree is staked, if it is grafted from a side branch. Side branches have a tendancy to want to go sideways, so they require staking to keep them upright. I would suggest that you remove the stake and see what happens. If the tree completely falls to its side and the roots don't seem to support the tree, then bboy is right, it's a problem with the roots. If the the tree seem pretty erect and well-supported by the roots, and only leans slightly toward the side at the very top of the tree, restake it and reevaluate it in another year. If you remove the stake and it it stays the same, you're golden, you can leave the stake off. Hope this helps, Dan
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gardener365
13 years ago
Abies need very good drainage. Mine are doing well in loamy clay planted on slopes, i.e.

Dax
robbandthedogs
Original Author
13 years ago
AAAHHAAA!!!....I had guessed that might be it...well I'm off to go move it to a better location, thanks for the advice!
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
the ONLY thing worse than planting it in july ..

would be moving it in august.. IMHO ...

i think you stressed the bee-gee-bees out of it.. it is responding..

and you are going to re-stress it to death ...

i would leave it there ... it hasnt even had time to get PO'd over the soil .. what with all the interruption to its root system .. severe heat.. high humidity ... etc ...

but then i cant really 'see' the situation ...

hope you have a warranty ...

ken
toucanjoe
13 years ago
Abies do not like wet feet.You could lose the plant in week if it gets root rot. Joe
gardener365
13 years ago
Exactly Joe. August is now the time when trees and shrubs and it is to be assumed all vascular plants re-direct all their energy to the root-systems. Now would be a perfect time to move it. Set up a simple shade cloth tent and keep it moist all the rest of this year... a few minutes a day each morning with your nozzle set on shower mode. Also, mulch it again, properly.

You gotta move it. If even to full shade or partial sun, temporarily.

Dax
robbandthedogs
Original Author
13 years ago
Success!! Many thanks to all who have offered advice; I pulled back the cypress mulch to a foot from the tree, quit watering and it has stopped dropping needles and in the past 10 days shows remarkable improvement! Looks better now than when I bought it 2 weeks ago!
wisconsitom
13 years ago
One minor point, and not directed to the OP, but balsam fir, Abies balsamea, perhaps singularly among firs, has very good tolerance to set soils.

+oM
treeforme
9 years ago
Hey @robandthedogs I found this old thread and figured your Korean Fir is a nice mature specimen by now. I am in search of some old scion wood for last minute conifer grafting. Could I by chance buy some trimmings from you? I could even send you a prepaid shipping label if it made it easier for you? Thanks!

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Abies Koreans 'Silver Show' losing needles

Comments (10)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

robbandthedogs
Original Author

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Abies Koreans 'Silver Show' losing needles

Comments (10)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

robbandthedogsOriginal Author

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