Amazing how much that plant stepped up its game from 2007 to 2009. Pines show a very juicy green cambium. Just scratch and you'll know now instead of hoping. Pines are ones that are really easy to determine which direction they are going. Versus other genus, like Fagus, which have a more thin faint green this time of year which may look like they croaked.

hey joy .. i was lazy.. didnt feel like checking the database .... from my hosta background... i have come to the conclusion that all white tissue ... or tissue that starts yellow and fades in the heat of summer to white ... is simply a negative to the plant ... this tissue in no way 'feeds' the plant ... due to lack of chlorophyll ... if we work on the theory that for the years of 'getting established' .. every leaf is a food making machine... well ... if you remove the green from the leaf/needle... it just takes that many more years for the plant to get 'established... instead of being 'fully established' after the second season ... i am convinced it can take 3 to 5 years on conifers that have white or yellow tissue that goes white .... its all an issue of the green mass of needles versus the white mass .... if the plant is a majority green.. it tends toward normal establishment... if it is highly yellow... then longer ... in my z5 .... the yellow/white tissue burns to a crisp in the heat of summer .... and whatever is left.. can burn to a crisp in winter.. winter sun and winter wind.. can desiccate the bee gee bees [technical term there .. lol] out of them .... both cesarini var and burkes red.. both lost all needles the second and third spring .... though golden ghost never did .... i would guess at this time... that perhaps the first year.. they were totally covered by snow cover.. and avoided the problem ... IT SEEMS ... that once they get a significant root mass .. to offset the extremes of summer and winter... they hold up much better ... whether dax's suggestion of disease is the 'cause' i might argue its the after-effect .... a weakened plant ... he might not see the disease in a year or two ... all conifers in pots die over the winter for me.. so i cant discuss that ....... but the exposure of the root mass above ground .. seems to suggest such to me ... when the plants lost all their needles in spring.. i thought i had lost the plants.. but this is where i learned.. its all in the buds .... if they remain hard and tan.. they remain viable.. and the plant can re-leaf ... well super coffee buzz started here.. i think i addressed my theory.. lol ... will have to re-read it all later and add anything else... is it close to your theory??? ken

who cares... if you like it... plant it .... and get rid of it.. in 10 or 20 years.. when it is too big ... i think the biggest i have ever seen is about 10 feet ..... no clue how old that is ... go to the ACS database... and find out the estimated annual growth rate.. add that number to whatever size you might buy.. and you can guesstimate the future ... MOST size estimates are for 10 years... add annual growth rate thereafter, ad nauseum... some of these things are so cool ... its just unthinkable to forgo pleasure... simply for the sake.. that in a decade or two.. it will be too big ... ken

Barbara Pinus mugo Zundert 'Chief Josheph' Pinus Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Cripsii' Pinus sylvestris 'Aurea' certainly and 'Gold Coin' Thuja occ. 'Malonyana Aurea' (Year-round gold) Thuja plicata 'Collyer's Gold' (does well in the midwest) Taxus cuspidata' Aurescens' Picea pungens 'Montana Ave.' is a new big winner. Pinus strobus 'Golden Candles' Pinus koraiensis 'Oculus Draconis' Thuja occidenalis 'Holmstrup Yellow' Ginkgo biloba 'Jade Butterflies' Picea omorika 'Aurea' Picea abies 'Gold Drift' Metasequoia 'Ogon' Pinus jeffreyi 'Gold' Abies koreana 'Aurea' Pinus parviflora 'Tensu Kazu' Pinus densiflora 'Pendula' (It's a rolling mounding groundcover actually) Pinus nigra 'Hornibrookiana' Pinus x 'Jane Kluis' (densiflora x nigra) Picea orientalis 'Skylands' Picea abies 'Jacobsen'/'Jacobsen Aurea' There's a Thuja occ. that might be available through David Dannaher (Ohio) 'Watnong Gold' - maybe one of the best Pinus contorta 'Taylor's Sunburst' Plenty of others I'm sure... Dax