Eastern red cedar is a wonderful tree, but...

Can it survive in standing water?

How does fare in hurricanes?

No one tree can stand up to all conditions, but I vote to throw taxodium distichum into the mix.

It might not prosper, but it will persist pretty well under many trying conditions such as dry conditions and shade. This I know from quite a bit of experience and observation.

Against floods and hurricanes, it has a wonderful record.

Successful planted in many countries all over the world.

Pretty decent longevity potential for a conifer. Maybe not in the bristlecone or alerce category, but 1,500 years is still pretty strong, lol.

It won the battle against dawn redwood in North America. Those trees knocked heads in the way distant past, imo.

Tough tree. It couldn't handle the greedheads, but I don't know many trees that can, sadly.

I'm sure there are quite a few other good candidates and points of view out there as well.

Bboy will say 'trees don't adapt', i.e., change in response to outside stimulus, but is see what you mean.

bald cypress. can grow in wet flooded conditions but it's also drought tolerant. It's also much more cold hardy than it's native range would suggest. People in this and the trees forum in zone 5 have them growing fine. It grows in acid east texas soil and alkaline central texas calcareous soils. It's also larger and faster growing than j. virginiana and in my opinion much more attractive. One of my favorites.

What trees that grow fine in zone 5 could also survive fine in pure tropical environment?

Does Bald Cypress grow in Hawaii? Bahamas? Costa Rica?

RE: Does Bald Cypress grow in Hawaii? Bahamas? Costa Rica?

I don't know for sure but I think it would. I don't think it needs much of a dormancy period if any. Montezuma cypress, which some people consider to be the same species I think, is often evergreen in mild winters. In some parts of bald cypress's native range I'm sure there are mild winters where there is little frost at all. I bet it would grow like crazy.

I saw Montezuma cypress growing in tropical Mexico this spring -- Autlan, Mexico.

I grow it here in Atlanta where it finally drops its leaves late winter in response to the coldest weather.

I wonder how far into colder climes Montezuma cypress will grow.

I'll say Thuja occidentalis as a candidate. Grows from Atlanta Georgia, probably in Texas, and up as far north as Canada or Alaska as well as east to west across the entire US. It's pretty adaptable. It's also fyi known for being a rootstock for impossible situations to grow Chamaecyparis obtusa.

Bald Cypress is the "gimmie." It comes to mind first for sure. Thuja occidentalis wasn't very far behind for me though.

Dax

Taxodium distichum, Juniperus virginiana, and Thuja occidentalis are all excellent candidates. Regarding the later two, there is an area of southern Door County and Kewaunee County, Wisconsin where they grow side by side..a most unusual forest. The soil there is very thin and pockmarked by limestone rock that is full of holes. I believe that this area is very wet, with the possible exception of right now.....we've got a bit of a drought going on at present! This area is near where I live, and I have traveled through there many a time. I usually associate J. virginiana with dry sites, and T. occidentalis with wet, so yes, it is most odd to see them as associates.

+oM

The juniper mentioned in the initial post may be pretty hard to beat. Douglas Fir and Ponderosa Pine grow over large areas of the West, but so does Subalpine Fir. On a global level Pinus sylvestris has a pretty big range but as with the above western North American trees that may be more because the same conditions occur over a large area rather than because the tree is widely adapted.

Largest range of any conifer is Juniperus communis, but much the same applies as Bboy says for Scots Pine.

In terms of the conifer I've seen growing in the largest range of climates, maybe Platycladus orientalis?

Resin

I agree with Platycladus however I didn't know if it could handle prolonged water exposures. What's the deal on that?

Thanks,

Dax

"Douglas Fir and Ponderosa Pine grow over large areas of the West, but so does Subalpine Fir."

I agree with the point bboy alluded to that size of range doesn't equate with "adaptability" - becuase large ranges can have very similar conditions. But I don't agree with the plants he listed as candidates. Doug fir cannot tolerate what I would call 'hot' conditions like the others mentioned, which is why in Texas, for example, it's confined to small, shrinking high altitude forests. I'd say the same for subalpine fir and ponderosa pine, the former being even less heat tolerant and the later only slightly more so. Nor would any of them tolerate 'wet' conditions which is why they only grow in the west and / or at high altitudes. How many people on this forum in the east or midwest kill firs of any species in cultivation? So I don't think any of those are good picks.

'eastern red cedar' may tolerate some drought and alkaline conditions, but it is generally outcompeted in those areas by related species like j. ashei, j. pinchotti.

I hadn't thought about platycladus but that's a good pick. Even here where it's very hot they are doing fine in the middle of a horrible drought. I see large old specimens in landscapes that receive no care at all, like elementary school playgrounds, and neglected residential landscapes where the lawn is long gone and replaced with bare dry soil and weeds.

Since we're talking about juniper, chinese juniper comes to mind, It's cold hardy and holds up in hot climates just fine. They're planted along freeways here.

China, maybe just because it's so huge, has produced some pretty tough 'adaptable' plants.

Let's not confuse terms. Adaptability refers to its ability to grow and thrive (and I might add reproduce)in diverse climates/soils/etc. Competitiveness is whether or not it out performs other plants in that area. ERC is adaptable over all of the eastern US, however in terms of competiveness it lacks. It certainly doesn't keep up with the southern pines in the deep woods of the south.
What in the world is a platycladus? Sounds like a furry creature from "down under". Will do a web search and educate myself.

"What in the world is a platycladus?"

I'd guess once you've seen pics of it, you'll realise you've seen lots of them around near where you live. Platycladus orientalis (Chinese Arborvitae) is native to zones 4-6 with dry continental climate, in northwestern China. But it is also quite happy in zones 10-11, low or high rainfall, with a summer or winter maximum. All it asks for is good soil drainage in higher rainfall areas. I've seen it in western Britain (zone 9 cool temperate oceanic), southern Sweden (zone 6, cool summers), Bulgaria (zone 6 hot summers), Mediterranean Turkey (zone 10, very hot dry summers), Ciudad Victoria in Mexico (lowland subtropical, hot wet summers), and seen pics of it growing in Hawaii and Singapore (equatorial lowland tropical rainforest), Chicago (cool moist continental) and others.

Anyone know of places where it has been tried and consistentely failed? I'd guess it won't succeed in places like Calgary, but can't think of many others.

Resin

Here is a link that might be useful: Platycladus pics

"ERC is adaptable over all of the eastern US"

I still say taxodium by a wide margin. Maybe j. virginiana is more cold hardy and therfore more 'adaptable' up north, but taxodium stretches down into the tropics. Plus you don't see ERC growing in standing water. As you go south into florida ERC is replaced by closely related southern red cedar, juniperus silicola so maybe it doesn't do well in very wet conditions and it's probably not fair to say ERC is adaptable all over the east coast, just because I doubt it would persist in extreme southern florida.

I hadn't originally considered platycladus but maybe taxodium beats it out because of that same point. The thing grows in swamps AND dry spots. A relative has a few planted in Midland, Texas which is a frickin desert and where you won't get away with ERC. There are some very large specimens in New Mexico, and huge trees in european collections. And it's commonly cultivated in horticultural trade in the American northwest. So I might argue Taxodium is adaptable in most of the contiguous 48. Where would it not survive is probably the easier question.

"What in the world is a platycladus? Sounds like a furry creature from "down under"." The platycladus is a common item, can probably find it at your local lowes or home depot. They are still often labeled as Thuja orientalis.

How about Thuja occidentalis Resin ? Where are places it certainly won't grow and what places might it grow, i.e. your examples with Platycladus?

Thanks much,

Dax

I don't think thuja occidentalis is as drought tolerant as platycladus, just becuase I don't see them. If it can be grown in texas I would think only relatively high rainfall east texas, like the piney woods area. Does it grow in association with loblolly pine, or longleaf pine elsewhere? Because we have those....

Ditto to plants77 - Platycladus is far more drought tolerant. I'd also doubt that Thuja occidentalis can cope with tropical conditions the way Platycladus can. Not sure about Taxodium distichum in that respect either.

Resin

I doubt that taxodium plants are that adapatble naturally like erc since taxodium seeds need constant moisture to germinate so it is confined to waterways obviously. There are distinctly 3 different taxodium in Texas. One is mucronatum cypress. One is central texas baldcypress that has adapted to thrive in calcerous soil. Lastly is the eastern Texas bald cypress that do not generally thrive in alkaline soil. One hybrid between bald and montezuma called Nanjing beauty reportly can tolerate pH ofas high 8.5pH. Montezuma cypress is known to grow in southern new Mexico. I have several seedlings growing at friend,etc and they seem to held on green foilage the longest into winter.

Anyway when it comes to survival of the fittest, erc wins. They are all over Texas. I do prefer taxodium plants though.

RE Anyway when it comes to survival of the fittest, erc wins. They are all over Texas

no, they are not, just a small part actually, it is not native to central, west, or the panhandle, and to my knowledge not to extreme south texas so pretty much an overwhelming super majority of texas does not have them. and the three distinct taxodium thing is controversial. And distinguishing between east and central distichum is BS in my opinion. That's definitely the same species, The only difference is provenance.

And yes, everyone on this forum has heard you rail about the taxodium hybrid, one of several by the way, which lends credence to the opinion that they are NOT distinct.....The fact that disjunct populations interbreed so easily makes you think they are pretty much the same. But who cares.

plants77
Guess it depends on what you call "central" Tx. ERC has crosssed the I-35 line and continues to progress west. This is occurring while Ashe Juniper is moving east and approaching the I-35 line from the west. Agree that ERC is not native to all parts of Texas but generally speaking it can survive just about anywhere it is planted in Texas.
It often starts to go native (reproduce)where planted.

I had to laugh when someone said Douglas fir cannot handle hot and dry conditions. El Malpais, NM is a counter example. Also the Sandia and Manzano Mtns. in NM have some growing near and among opuntia (both imbricata and prickly pear) and yucca bacatta. Same goes for ponderosa pine and white fir as well. All 3 of these species enter into the pinon-juniper Upper Sonoran belt in the SW and could be considered drought hardy with the right parents. I have seen 90 days with no spring rain in these mountains some years. Established SW trees can take it.