Please consider that IÂm new at this. So my thoughts are not those of an expert. I considered this an experiment. I planted 6 towers, each around 30" tall. 2 were 6" in diameter. 4 were 8" in diameter. In one of those 6" towers, I planted the same number of plants as the 8" towers. In the other 6" tower, I planated 25% fewer plants. In both of the 6" towers, the plants were clearly stunted. At least for my version, the 6" diameter towers were failures. I had two different mixes in these towers. Same result for both mixes. One of those mixes was the gritty mix. That was way too heavy for my purpose. That left four 8" diameter towers. In 3 of those, the plants flourished top to bottom. So much greenery that the towers werenÂt visible. However, I was disappointed with the yield. Those 3 towers had these mixes: 1) Miracle grow potting mix. Because the potting mix is dense, I created a watering core by inserting a pvc pipe (1.5" inner diameter) with small holes drilled along the length of the pipe and blocked at the bottom. Been hitting with Miracle gro fertilizer every two weeks. 2) 3:2:1.5 Pine bark:Peat:Perlite Added a little lime and controlled release fertilizer. Been hitting with Miracle gro fertilizer every two weeks. 3) 5:1:1 pine bark:Miracle gro potting mix:Perlite. Added a little gypsum and controlled release fertilizer. The gypsum was an error. I think it should have been lime. Been hitting with Miracle fertilizer and Epsom salts every two weeks. The 4th 8" diameter tower also had healthy plants. However, I spaced the rows twice as far apart. So the tower looked kind of sparse. The mix in that tower was 3:2:1. Large Pine Bark:Peat:OilDry (turface substitute). I tried small pine bark, but the mix rolled out the towerÂs holes like marbles. Putting in large pine bark seemed to physically work better. Added a little lime and controlled release fertilizer. Been hitting with Miracle fertilizer every two weeks. I did have a problem with gray mold. I got berries, but I was disappointed with the yield. I will be experimenting with winter storage as well as other spacing, soils, and varieties next year. I live in Northern Ohio, zone 5. I would really appreciate other ideas. Especially how to avoid gray mold and how to increase yield. Imstillatwork, Please share your results and ideas Thanks.

Hey Scott, I just ordered a bunch of 3 gallon containers. I'm going to purchase a 'Saijo' and one other Asian persimmon. Then, in addition to my 'Meader' American, I'm going to purchase a 'Szukis' and one other American cultivar. I want to experiment, after these threes are established single (well-pruned specimens) in producing an Asian Persimmon duo multi-graft (Saijo and one other) and produce an American persimmon trio (Meader, Szukis, and one other). If they don't work out, it will be ok since I'll have them separately growing (pruned). 1.Since you highly recommend the PVNA Asian types, in addition to the 'Saijo', I want to grow one PVNA (perhaps 'Chocolate'); I live in Zone 6b, and I know that 'Saijo' is said to be cold-hardy down to -10F. What would be a recommended variety of PVNA that would be cold-hardy for zone 6? From what I've read, 'Chocolate' is not an option (whereas other sites contradict this, claiming it would work out in zone 6). 2. What varieties of American persimmon (flavor) are you familiar with? Some have suggested 'Szukis' is the best and that 'Meader' is not necessarily the best tasting variety, comparatively. 3. Do you think that I can, forever, continue to summer prune an American persimmon tree - if I wanted to keep it under 10' feet, or would this eventually stress and kill the tree years down the line? 4. As for the 'Saijo' and PVNA Asian varieties, can I place the tree only 8' from my pavers/walk way - or will the roots destroy the paves? I intend to prune the lowest branches so that the lowest limb is above 6' off the ground so that it can spread without obstructing the walk-way. Thanks, Steve

Thank you Scottfsmith and konrad for your posts. Konrad, I had read your thread about modified bark grafting sometimes ago. However, the bottom part of the graft is not clear to me from the picture. Is the scion bottom part inserted by pushing inside the bark of the receiving wood or is the bottom part of the scion T-budded by cutting and slipping the bark over the scion bottom part? Also, why do you take chance by using such a long scion? I thought the vigour of the lower buds will compensate for the height. Anyway, you have done wonders in your acrage in Zone 3. I have no such luck even in Zone 5a Ottawa which is not as far North. I guess our summer are cooler and less sunny than prairies.

I am really glad that most people don't think it's the wind that is doing these trees in, because that was going to be the hardest thing to change. I did stake the trees with those green metal fence posts, but to be honest, I don't think it would have made any difference because they never got any bigger than sticks. I kept them weed free but only about 18" in all directions from the trunk so it sounds like that was really inadequate. I was careful to plant them the recommended amount based on the graft mark (I don't recall if I could tell where they were grown in the nursery, but I remember being careful about the graft because of suckering) I watched the area for drainage for almost a year before I put them in, and the ground was not soggy. We also have a much lower spot of ground (kind of a swale) that water drains to in the spring. The trees were planted well above that area. I don't think it is a drainage problem, but I did not ever perform one of those drainage tests (dig a hole, fill with water, time how long it takes to drain). I also made sure I watered during dry weather, but that area out there really cracks once the sun has baked it. It is difficult to get the ground well watered at the end of July. I had mulched with wood chips (there was no sign of damage from voles, etc.) and we have cats that seem to keep the little critters in check. I think that when I put in the new trees I will use gravel around the base. Our property gets baled so I have access to plenty of hay and I use it around my blueberries, so I'll use that around the outside of the gravel. That should help with water issues also. What a great orchard you have thomis! The trees that I planted NEVER had that many leaves. I was anxious about deer coming along and chomping the puny amount of green that I did have and the tree dying from no foliage! I was afraid to use fertilizer since ACN says that fertilizer is one of the leading causes of fruit tree death. It sounds like I need to verify the soil ph once I till everything up and go from there with that issue and probably use some fertilizer. My house is smack dab in the middle of a former farm field. I imagine the soil is probably depleted to start with. Just so I have an idea, what kind of growth can I expect the first year so I know whether the tree is getting established at an appropriate rate and can survive the winter? Thanks once again. I didn't know whether our site was just not going to support fruit trees, but you all have cleared up that issue. I appreciate the help and advice!