of those i have seen on the list.. hoopsi is my favorite.. though i have no clue about how its color will hold up for you...

i highly suggest you go at least half the size of 'what you have sen'

ken
from a one gallon pot
{{gwi:205545}}

X2 for Hoopsi. Mine just started to put on new growth thats a very nice light Blue color. However, the old growth is somewhat green.

On the other hand, my new BabyBlue Eyes still has a very strong blue color from last years growth. This plant is new to me so I'm not sure what color blue the new growth will be, can't wait to find out. This is probably to slow growing for you.

A few comments / warnings......

First and foremost, do not buy or plant any of these until October for our location. We are already far too hot to bring one of these guys in now. Virtually all of the local stock that are fresh from the nurseries just came from the Pacific Northwest where they were in heavy cloudiness and rain most of the spring. To bring them into your yard in our full 90+ degree sun will most surely fail. Letting the roots have a chance to settle in over the winter will dramatically increase your success rate. And waiting will also let you see how the tree performed durng the summer in our heat while at the nursery.

Second, for many of the same reasons mentioned above I would also recommend getting a tree in the 3-5' range rather than the larger. Even as much of an instant gratification guy as I am, I have learned over the years your success rate transplanting the 5-6'+ range bigger trees in our climate is half what the smaller size will get you.

But having said all that here is how I would rank your list for our location -

Bizon Blue
Hoopsii
Fat Albert
Baby Blue - normally a smaller slower growing tree than most of your list
Backeri - seems to have issues pumping enough water for our heat

That's all just for what it's worth.....

mark

Some have said that the color of bakeri is close to hoopsi, and some say its a dwarf and others don't. Is there a real difference on these two's size and growth rate?

Bizon blue is advertised as a fuller hoopsi, are there any other differences? Do those who have this tree like it, or with they had a hoopsi?

rick, et al ....

the blue pungens [and most blue plants] have a wax coating on the needles ... which reflects the blue of the sky .... they are green under the wax [rub a needle and find out] ... they are bluer on sunny days.. and duller on grey days ... its a trick of the eye ...

many environmental factors dictate how long the blue lasts ... thunderstorm in high heat that has melted the wax ... snow.. ice ... etc.. all effect how long the blue remains vibrant..

all conifers lose interior needles over time .... and as the years roll by .. they green ... or more properly.. the wax/blue wears off ...

if you look closely at my pic above.. you can see the new vibrant color ... the prior years less blue color ... and if you look real close ... the 3 year priors nearly green ... and some weeds.. whats that all about .. lol

some claim that some cultivars 'hold' their color longer .. as far as i am concerned... its all marketing .... sooner or later.. complicated by your location.. its going to wear off ....

the ONLY way to figure out how it will work in your area.. is to either plant it and find out... or find a local arboretum.. and see them in person ...

i have thomsen .. otto von bismarch .. hoopsi ... and a bunch of blue concolors ... and frankly.. except for some minor form differences.. 99.9% of us.. would be hard pressed to tell them apart as to color [comparing pungens to pungens and concolor to concolor] ... [joy doesnt count.. lol]

finally ... you cant compare your new mail order plant to your local plants.. since for all you know.. they were protected in a greenhouse ... only in the years to come.. will you be able to come to any real conclusions....

ken

MARK SAID
""First and foremost, do not buy or plant any of these until October for our location. We are already far too hot to bring one of these guys in now. Virtually all of the local stock that are fresh from the nurseries just came from the Pacific Northwest where they were in heavy cloudiness and rain most of the spring. To bring them into your yard in our full 90+ degree sun will most surely fail. Letting the roots have a chance to settle in over the winter will dramatically increase your success rate. And waiting will also let you see how the tree performed durng the summer in our heat while at the nursery""

I can vouge for this. Strongly. Though we start growing 'early' here in the Pacific Northwest many years, a very strong La Nina weather pattern has shrouded our Spring with many days of cool, cloudy weather, with highs rarely reaching into the 60s. We literally have had two days since last September over 70 degrees and due to this, many plants, including Picea pungens are just barely starting to wake up now. Some of my cultivars in shadier spots are firmly asleep right now, pounding on their 'snooze buttons'.

Particularly the sunlight may be shocking to plants moving into the Midwest/hot locations as we've had rare sunny days as well(maybe one or two decent semi-sunny days a week).

Fall would really be a better option unless you're desperate.

And I'd vote for whatever cultivar of those five is the most readily available/healthy/inexpensive. To me, there's very small differences here, not enough to warrant losing sleep over.

-Will

After a quick scan of the local nurseries, it seems that most of the stock has been depleted this spring. Can't find any hoopsi that are bigger than a 5 gallon pot.

Mark, maybe you can answer this if you have ordered from a nursery here before. They said they would order me whatever I needed in the fall, but will they get fresh stock, or will it come from an intermediate nursery between the field and here?

Traditionally, when a retailer like TLC or Marcums orders you a tree it is coming as fresh stock from the grower.

Sorghum Mills would be one exception to that because they bring them in and re-plant them in his field. So a lot of his inventory has been there for some time.

Marcums also grows a lot of their own stock. I was there recently but I can't remember what blues he has in stock. I know he has several large deodoras and pines. But I don't think he grows much in Picea.

TLC has a lot of beautiful stock but for the most part it is all fresh stock and they are the highest in price. They will also order you any tree you want which is nice when you have a specific target in mind. They have a great no questions asked 1 year guarantee so you have absolutely no risk. But it comes at a price.

mark

Having lost this tree I'm willing to pay a bit more for a better guarantee. Marcums did have some hoopsi in 5' but they did not have the warranty. Unless I find something else in the meantime, im sure I'll have TLC order me something.

What have you found are the differences between bizon blue and hoopsi as far as growth rate and form? These seem to be the finalists.

Growth rate between the two is about the same.

Form is close...Bizon blue might be a little tighter / fuller appearing. Bizon Blue's needles to me usually look slightly shorter than Hoopsii's.

Color - Bizon Blue is a more consistant powder / steel blue while Hoopsii can be greenish blue to blue with a much more dramatic bright blue spring flush.

And in just my experience now.....Bizon Blue seems to consistantly take our heat a little better. But lots of folks would have told you Fat Albert would be the best for heat. So take my comments with a grain of salt.

mark.

One more thing......if you do go to TLC and want to order a tree ask for Marteen and tell him I sent you. He's responsible for all TLC's tree orders and inventory and we know each other well. He's pretty much through ordering for the nursery's stock other than small fill-in stuff. But he'll add something for you if you're willing to wait for his next shipment from that supplier.

But also watch their sales. Like most major nurseries they run promotions in July and August like their annual moonlight madness sale, to clear out what's left of their summer inventory. There are good bargains to be found on conifers at that time and you get to also see how they took the summer heat in their nursery beds.

If you find something don't plant it. Take it home and set in a nice protected area and care for it until October / November. Once the heat stays consistently at or below 75-80 is when I plant. Many wait until hard chills set in so the trees are more dormant but I go in the ground a little earlier. Because of our extreme Oklahoma heat I want the roots to have as much water pumping time as they can before the next spring heat season.

mark

Great information Mark. You say he is done ordering for the summer, do you know when I need to have my order in to get something for early this fall? I assume they will get some conifers in at that time.

They'll continue to have small orders come in throughout the summer, but few conifers. Their inventory is pretty heavy right now.

I'd just go in sometime its convenient and introduce yourself to him, tell him what tree you've got in mind and ask him when he thinks he might be able to bring one in. If you tell him you'd rather wait until the fall to get it, I can't imagine he'll have a problem with that.

As I said he's got a big inventory right now. You might look around and see what you find. Your ideal tree may be there already......

mark

How did you confirm that your Fat Alber was dead by the way?

Mark,

I'll go find him sometime soon. I was there yesterday and couldn't find any hoopsi bigger than 3 gallon. No bizon blue either, the only thing semi large was a couple of fat Alberts and baby blues. I know I have seen both of the others there in the past, so hopefully they will show up or I'll order.

As for my current fat Albert, I'm not ready to dig it out yet, but I'm getting closer with each day it gets browner from the bottom and no growth at all. I'll post a pic tomorrow

Here is the pic. My fear is that if it does live, the bottom branches will die forcing me to decide if I can live with it without branches to the ground.

I was there yesterday and couldn't find any hoopsi bigger than 3 gallon.

===>>> i am still baffled by your insistence on a bigger transplant...

mine grew from 1 foot to 8 ft ... in the pic above.. inside of 5 years.. because it got its roots down and became 'established' .. and got growing to standards.. ASAP ...

the larger the transplant .. the longer to re-establishment .. and the longer to growing to standard ...

but of course.. do whatever makes you happy ...

but planting a 5 to 6 foot tree in the heat of OK summer.. which ought to be very soon.. MIGHT end up just like the one you are replacing ...

if you decide to go big... the next PROPER planting time is fall.. about the time the leaves fall off the other trees ...

good luck

ken

The reason I want a little larger specimen is that this tree holds a prominent place in my landscape, and secondly from what I am told, we don't get that kind if growth here. More like half, so your 5 years is 10 to me. I will go a bit smaller, maybe 4-5 rather than his 7' to try to be more successful.

I'm 100% with Ken here but I'd be tempted to try a 5-gallon max in your landscape. First, it will have less foliage to feed and less to water. Next, it will establish quicker then a 20-gallon monster - finally, it will cost less to start, still look decent, achieve a decent height in a relative short amount of time and best of all, if it doesn't live, you're out less money.

3 or 5-gallon plants are my favorite!

-Will

I think it was Mark that had praised the Bakeri as doing well in OK and with compareable color to Hoopsi. Has something changed with the opinion of Bakeri with regard to heat tolerance? What have others experienced with this cultivar?

I have Bakeri (x5), Hoopsi and Baby Blue (x2) ... and have seen some very nice Bizon Blue in person. All have excellent blue in the spring. Hoopsi is stunning, steel-grey/blue (not just tips, and retains them year round!).

My Bakeri seem to be growing a bit faster (vs. Hoopsi) and also started smaller. They are stunning in spring, but only the tips (new growth) are that pure blue. The Bakeri have more 'character' (iregular shape, funky, somewhat narrow).

I would go with Hoopsi, then Bakeri, then Bizon Blue. I don't consider fat albert in the same class as these others. Baby blue is also nice, but is the slowest growing of them all and technically a drawf growth rate.

Personally, I'd like a Abies concolor 'Candicans' and those are nice trees.

Not sure which would grow best in your soil and climate.

Yeah, that guy is looking pretty cashed. I noticed mine hasn't pushed any buds and is getting a brown cast but isn't losing any needles as of yet. A Picea omorika is doing the same thing.

Its true smaller plants will typically establish sooner but get growth rates from folks in your local area.

Growth rates are dependent on cultural requirements and most importantly the soil type and texture.