Dave, I don't know if you read this post or not. More info at the conclusion of post. Thu, Jul 24, 08 at 11:20 "Just a note about what is commonly called black tip among plumeria growers. Black tip in NOT caused by fungal issues according to the latest research. Several of us on the West Coast have sent samples of "black tip" to labs. The conclusion of the labs testing on freshly harvested new appearances of stems with "black tip" was "no fungus found". With older stems there were findings of fungal (fuserium being one) activity leading to the conclusion that fungal activity was secondary. Another study by Sean Miller and recognized by Dr. Criley was; mites on the tip of stems cause stress to the plant and the plumeria develops "black tip". See this link: http://plumeriatc.org/ It's a changing world out there (lol) it is sad the Plumeria Societies don't recognize these latest scientific findings. Sean Miller discusses treatment for mites at his web site. We mostly know how to treat fungal issues with fungicides. This method doesn't always rectify the problem, finding the source of the stress is also part of the remedy. "Black tip" is much more complex then a simple fungal issue this is why it can become very difficult to control." Here is a link that might be useful: Sean Miller" Many of your conclusions on this subject seem logical and agree with the latest buzz and studying. As you well know all the plumeria societies and many that have websites stick to "fungus" as the cause. Trying not to be repetitious fungal issues are a secondary issue in all cases studied by me and others. We have found the healthier the plant the less issues with "black tip". What we know as "black tip" does not occur often or not at all in many tropic areas. The plumeria defined by science is a "tropical succulent tree". Most that frequent this forum grow their plumeria out of its natural habitat. In addition it may grow in sub tropical regions such as Southern California and Florida however the many issues including "black tip" prove that science is correct in labeling it a TROPICAL TREE. Jack

>For me however, given the choice in cabinetry, I'd go solid, so now I will tell you why. I like the feel of the heavier doors. A solid panel is also easier to repair if it gets damaged. I've seen some veneer panels completely blow out when hit hard enough. Plywood and veneer aren't the same thing, and both come in many thicknesses. I have no idea what you mean by "blow out", but properly glued veneer (or properly made plywood) will never delaminate. OTOH, only a fool would make guarantees about solid wood and warping and splitting on larger panels. Many companies, for that reason, will either not make the large doors without extra stiles or will not guarantee them. If you have a raised panel fridge door with just two panels, for instance, all the luck to you, but there's a reason that raised panel passageway doors are made with SMALL panels. >I've had several clients complain about the rattly sound when closing a door with a thin center panel (especially if the doors are large...tall 42" uppers and pantry doors are the worst). You don't think about that until you're using it everyday. You mean that the whole DOOR vibrates? Or that the panel vibrates in the door? With the second, it's more likely that solid panels will develop that problem over time, since they move more with the seasons. You can reverse-cove-shape a plywood panel, too, though the results wouldn't be as pretty on the backside, but I'd take that before having a *big* solid wood center panel. The LAST place you want big panels is with solid wood. (Unless, of course, you can magically keep the moisture and temperature exactly steady year-round--like you'd have to to keep paint from splitting where stiles join, as Woodmode mentioned.) It will warp very rapidly. You're courting disaster if you insist on it. If you have to have solid wood on big doors--if, for instance, you have the actual panel with a cove facing out--then you should keep the size of each panel to a reasonable dimension considering the dimensional stability of your chosen wood. That means raising the number of panels per door. >And finally, veneers can STAIN differently and AGE differently than solid wood. I've seen kitchens where the center veneer panel is slightly lighter in color that the solid wood frames. Now you're making no sense. A horizontal stile will look a different color from a vertical stile because of the direction of the wood grain. This is true with the vast majority of stain colors. Natural variation in the wood mean that panels and stiles will also look slightly different colors to a very careful eye. The BEST way to get panels to look the same, if you're not doing an almost opaque stain, is with veneers. (True veneers, not plywood.) The BEST way is to book match or slip match veneers. Without that, the best you can do is to do a "pleasing match" of solid woods--that is, select them to make sure they are all the same color. If some moron didn't do so, blaming the veneering process (or the fact that they used plywood) shows an astonishing lack of comprehension of what veneer/plywood is. If you like solid wood panels because you think they're more authentic, sure, whatever, I'll give it to you. If you like the idea of being able to put an enormous gouge in a piece of furniture and the color underneath being able to be stained to the same color, I'll agree but I'll think you're crazy since any sensible person would fill it, sand it, stain it, and make it disappear. But if you're pretending that, in performance, solid wood is superior for a flat panel application or if you're pretending that the most exquisite furniture made today isn't enormously dominated by rare and beautiful veneers...you're selling your clients a load of nonsense. The very best casework is made with a mixture of plywood, veneers, inlays, and solid wood--typically, in that order. The pieces that are worth more than my car ever was rarely have more than trace amounts of solid wood. Pretending that solid wood=high quality is dangerously deceptive. The stile-and-panel style door was originally developed because slabs of solid wood warp so dramatically. (Yes, solid-wood panels work--as long as you keep the doors within reasonable sizes ***for the material.*** Many people don't want that, though....) Historically...yes, Shakers wanted simpler designs. They couldn't change the existence of stiles-plus-panels because plywood technology didn't exist yet. The cove actually has a function in solid-panel doors, so they kept it and reversed it to make it seem less decorative. If Shaker villages were thriving today, they'd probably all have slab-style doors! :-) (Which aren't just slabs of playwood, BTW, but are built up--with plywood and solid wood, both--and usually have...yes, veneers, if they are any size at all. Those amazing zebrawood modernist design? All veneers!)

"Christmas, for me, is a season, not just a day."~ Luckygal I hear you! Someone said "Merry Christmas!" to me on the 27th, then became very apologetic & jittery, "Oh, I shouldn't say that, I mean, Happy New Year!" I said, "Actually, you were right the first time. It's Christmas until Epiphany which is January 6. Twelve days of Christmas, you know." She looked at me perplexed, as if I'd just tried to fill her head with utter nonsense. "No," I could see her thinking. "Christmas is over!" As for "over-the-top" Christmas decor (or any other OTT decor) I don't even enjoy seeing it around or in magazines. My approach is relatively spare, but then this is the first year I've even had a Christmas tree in a decade!

Okay, thank you... I'm starting to understand. Also found an old thread that was helpful. I'll forget the between the appliance idea, then. Greendesigns: Thank you so much and please bear with me just to make sure I understand what you're saying: 1. If this installs between a cabinet and a fridge that has a side panel, I can attach it to that fridge panel as well as to the cab on the other side? Another counter height panel WOULDN'T be necessary next to the fridge panel? 2. If the fridge was free-standing, then a counter-height, 3/4" panel would need to be added next to the fridge so there'd be something to screw the insert to? And... 3. If I want it to look like a fill piece, just add the fill piece to the front of the pullout insert. If I want it to be even with the front of the doors then an additional something needs to be added on top of the fill piece? One more question for you: If a person had a tall pullout between a fridge (with side panel) and a wall, could the insert be screwed into the wall on that side, or does another panel need to be added to the wall and then the pullout screwed to that? Taggie: thank you for those links. I do remember that broom pullout. That might be in the running for what to do with that space. It would be handy for sure. Here is a link that might be useful: old thread 3