Citrange - horrible
Citrumelo - horrible
Yuzu - not much here but seeds, grown for the peel
Thomasville Citrangequat - horrible

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

Thanks for the opinion mrtexas, although that is some bad news.

Is it presumtuous to ask if your opinion would be the same if you were in a colder zone? I read your article about cold hardy citrus, and the picture does seem pretty grim, but then there are people who swear that they like some of them, especially for juice. Even thomasville citrangequat is not any better than horrible?

Anybody else agree or disagree?

Thanks jacklord, for your succinct and thoughtful response. I would be ecstatic with Yuzu if I could use the juice for various things. Of course I will need to come up with a system for winter protection, but that still beats growing the plants in pots indoors (I already grow lemon, lime, blood orange, tangerine this way and am aware of its severe limitations).

Let's face it, very few of the overall number of citrus fruits are edible out of hand to most people. And the advent of these really sweet ones did not cause citron, lemon, lime, yuzu, grapefruit, etc.. to drop off the face of the earth.

I have seen a fella growing Meyer Lemons in Massachusetts. He has posted on this site, so do a search. He uses a pvc pipes, plastic cover, and an aquarium heater in a tub of water.

I live in Raleigh NC and there are a few cold hardy citrus growers in this area. Some people cover their trees during the winter, some provide heat and some don't and there is at least one guy that provides no protection at all and his backyard is filled with nothing but citrus. But he does not get a reliable crop every year - maybe one decent crop every five years and one outstanding crop every ten years. The problem is that you have to grow a lot of trees for a long time to isolate the few that will thrive in your area - it's not as easy as planting what someone else has had success with. All the local growers that I've met have been doing it for over 20 years. If you don't protect the fruit from freezing weather you won't get much fruit so you need to look for early fruiting varieties.

There are few people out there that eat Poncirus trifoliata fruits but most people find them too bitter (not just sour). They have a resin layer just under the skin that overpowers everything else. It is that resinous flavor that shows up in some of the hybrids with regular citrus (it varies from plant to plant and year to year). That same resin will gum up your cutting tools and knives used to cut the fruit in half to process them. It is next to impossible to remove from metal. I find that if you harvest the fallen fruit and store them in the refrigerator for at least a month they will soften and the resin will be less (not gone completely). They make a good marmalade after a few water changes and enough sugar. They are also a great pectin source for other jams and jellies (you can get the pectin from the seeds and avoid the resinous skins).

Thanks jacklord and trianglejohn!

Jacklord: Yes, I've read lots of posts from Frank in zone 5 MA. I know I could probably copy him, and I don't think I'd need any of the piping or aquarium heaters due to the solar gain here in NM and the warmer days. I'm kind of moving in that direction, but I still would love to try something with minimal protection (a few frost blankets on the coldest nights) up against a sunny south wall if it's doable and worth it.

Trianglejohn: You obviously have a lot of experience with citrus in zone 7. Nobody ever explained the Poncirus gum thing that clearly. It is great to hear directly from someone who is using this species in several ways. I'm glad you chimed in.

Any more specifics about the taste/use of those hybrids?

Here is what I'd recommend in your zone. It would make protection a whole lot easier:

{{gwi:649892}}

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

1 trifoliate fruit
1 gallon water
100 pounds of sugar

Boil together until it jells, can, and then store somewhere where you can't find it.

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

You can get the trifoliate resin off of your knife with acetone. I don't know how to get it off of your stomach.

My trees don't show damage until the lows are in the mid twenties, so you can plan how you want to shelter them and only take action when the bitter cold sets in. I have seen gorgeous citrus hybrids growing up against brick walls (south) and the trees were way over head high so they had survived many winters. I believe they were Changsha or one of the Satsuma hybrids. The problem remains that so many citrus flower in the winter and the fruit ripens the following winter - so buds can be damaged by frosts and fruit will be frozen before it gets ripe. If you could find a variety that blooms in March and ripens in November you'd be better set for success.

A lot of the citrus growers I mentioned above just rush out and harvest unripe fruit before a strong winter storm hits rather than try to shelter them in a major way. You end up with a lot of "lemon" juice which isn't a bad thing but not what you were hoping for.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and the humor!

I was already planning to build a greenhouse type shelter that fits into a southwest facing wall corner. I think I could maintain a suitable temperature in there for most true citrus, and they would still be planted in the ground, which is one of my goals.

I grow Poncirus trifoliata 'Flying Dragon' near Dayton, Ohio. As TriangleJohn says they are bitter, resinous, sour and seedy. And yet... I was making marmalade of them this fall and put in too much orange juice for the recipe. So I scooped out the excess. A peel or two of the marmalade to be became lost in the juice. When I drank it some days later I loved the taste. It reminded me of Ugli fruit juice. Although, admitedly, I did not have a side by side comparison. There may be hope yet for a tasty Poncirus product.

As for dealing with the (obnoxious) resin, try Goo Gone.

Cath

Despite having read over and over how bad poncirus trifoliata tastes, I planted 7 trees around my property. The way I look at it is that even if it turns out that they are not very usable in a culinary sense, I WILL find something to do with the fruit- aromatherapy, extracts, paint remover, who knows.

On the other hand, I do have two young Satsuma Mandarin trees that I have protected with their own greenhouse/thermostat/electric lamps. These lived fine through last winter's low of 10F and snows. These are my eating citrus.

I am also growing some Kumquat trees that I plan to plant out in the next year or two. These reportedly will take the low teens (F). Coupled with modest protection, they may thrive.

For me, it is worth the extra trouble to protect some things every winter to have my own citrus!

I have tasted all four of your listed citrus and hybrids.
I agree with Mr. Texas on the first three as being horrible or at least really bad.

As for Thomasville citrangequat, I somewhat disagree. I used to have one when I lived in Houston some years ago. I found it very useful for squeezing juice onto fish that had been frozen, before and during cooking. And in some respects it is as good as lemon for this use if it is green starting about August. Then a little later they can be used for a lime substitute, although they are not nearly good as West Indian (Mexican/Key) limes.

I know one guy that has used them to make Margaretas.

I doubt they can be expected to be allowed to ripen and sweeten to the point of eating out of hand in low zones like they can be in Houston because they take until January or Feb. for that.

You may be able to grow them against the house or another shelter. Or you may try Clem x Yuzu 3-3 (ten degree tangerine).

Larry

My plants are overwintered indoors, so I don't have much outdoor experience I'm afraid.

Taste-wise, I think I got lucky in buying yuzu fruits. They were neither dry, nor unappetizing. There was a fair amount of oil in the pith and around the seeds, but it did not pollute the flavor. The overall taste reminded me of a somewhat mellow lemon (sour, but not the kick-in-the-head sourness of a eureka lemon), with a bit of grapefruit thrown in, and an odor that was bit guava/passionfruit-like. Good for cooking.

Calamondins/calamansi might also be worth considering. I don't know how cold hardy they are. Flavor-wise, kind-of lime-like, with a bit of tangerine mixed in. Very sour, but great for cooking. You can make GREAT drinks with them, use them in place of lemons in dessert (they are small, cherry-sized, so you would need a lot of 'em), or in salsas in place of lemon.

I've eaten sudachi as well - of the papeda-type citrus I've run across, they were far less appealing than yuzu. Just about corrosively sour. Very attractive, but that's about all they had going for them.

Although I really don't have great credentials or special taste buds, consider this for your citrus craving/growing............Thomasville Citrangequat- I have 2 trees that are 10+ years old. I don't use the green fruit, but the mature yellow/orange fruit are pleasant to eat freah. They are a lot milder than grapefuit, not leaving the sour aftertaste. They are mildly sweet with enough acid. I think of them like eating a semi-sweet, orange-flavored lemon. Nothing like clarity. The trees are productive ,grow in clay, are nourished by mulch only, and have stiff 2" thorns that are a terror. I clip them off. The mature fruit will eventually become dehydrated if they hang around too many weeks. If you eat grapefruit, these won't be a challenge to eat. There is no funky component to the flavor.Because they produce a lot of fruit that don't get eaten, I grafted Brown Select satsuma and Hamlin orange buds/scions to several of the branches at a height of about 7 feet in 2009. I heard a local speaker declare that there is a theory that grafting high on a citrus trunk can provide a greater cold tolerance to the grafted branches. Well, these 8 month old new shoots were exposed to a January 2010 short-lived low temp of 14 degrees....and neither tree had any windbreak, plastic, mulch/dirt mound, gloves, or long johns. Results? One of 5 Brown Select branches died, and both Hamlin branches survived. That is plenty cold hardy enough for me to believe the 'theory'.(Side note: I also topworked 2 old sour orange tree branches at about 7 ft with BC2 satsuma and Brown Select satsuma in 2009.....all 10 Brown s. survived and 7 of 10 BC2 survived.)I imagine that with your protection strategy that the T.C. could be a survivor/producer. Maybe it would serve as a r/s also......If you enjoy lemons, then maybe a Sunquat could be considered. My 4 year old Sunquat has lemon-like fruit that average 2" to 2-1/2" diameter, and mulch is the only source of nutrients. It is in a mound of sandy soil and got no protection in that 14 degree thing. It defoliated about 15% of the leaves, and several thin newer twigs died, but that was all. Importantly, it produced a full load of fruit following the freeze. It is mild enough to eat as a lemon, and it doesn't have a funky taste component. The peel is edible, but not as tasty as kumquat peel to me. It is about 6 ft tall and wide. I saw one that was about 12 feet tall and full of fruit, but this one tends to do more branch-flopping than growing upright. There are 3 Meiwa kumquats here that are 10 years old, and they had 10% defoliation only.They produced a lot after. There is a 10+ year old Calamondin also, and it dropped 30%.It produced a lot after. The 10+ year old Armstrong satsuma lost 10%, as well as a few twigs.It had 60% fewer fruit after. The 3- 10+ year old Bloomsweet grapefruit lost 20% to 40% of the leaves, depending on which tree, and still fruited big time.If you have not eaten a Sunquat before, I would mail a couple to you. It tastes a lot like the Meyer 50% parent, but slightly better..........For those with the climate, etc. to grow the superior fruit, these may not be praiseworthy, but...they do have their place.Although not to be confused with ribeye steak,....they are a LOT better than canned Vienna sausage

Coping:

When I lived in Houston, I had an old 15 gal. container Sunquat labeled, Boylequat, after the discoverer of this hybrid. I planted it in a shallow raised bed. That year, 2002 it was 19.5 to 20.5 deg F in my part of town on March 5. I also had a Kino Kuni Kat, and a Keraji that were in bloom. All these set fruit. But the Sunquat was super loaded. But "Quats" are Fortunella, and belong in a separate group like Ichang papeda. No, I dont believe the new taxonomy that lumps citrus, poncirus, and fortunella in one happpy group.

Kats and Kerajis are known short term extreme hard freeze survivors. These round out the list: Changsha, "standard" sour orange, Satumas, and your bloomsweet. I believe golden grapefruit belongs on this list also. Golden seems to be at least as cold hardy as Bloomsweet.

Where in Texas are you? Sounds like Changsha may be good for you. I need to compare some notes on clay with someone.

Larry

These citrus are growing west of Houston, and most are situated in mounds, raised beds, or half-barrels containing sandy organic soil mix. They eventually grow down into the underlying brown clay, which does have some benefits.One local grower planted 3 Brown Select satsumas, each in a different relative's yard. He found that the 2 planted in yards with underlying clay were definitely producing sweeter fruit than the one in only-sandy soil. Anecdotes are not all bogus. The earlier-mentioned Thomasville Citrangequats are planted in straight clay. Regarding Golden Grapefruit being cold hardy....how did you arrive at that conclusion? The 2 that I have were labeled/presented as being those great mild,sweet,orange-flavored, seedy semi-grapefruit named Goldens, and they were about 6 ft tall with trunks about 1-1/4" at the base. Each had a foot of soil mounded at the base and 3 layers of wrapped covers from head to foot when the 14 degree event happened a year ago. One is on Carrizo Citrange r/s, and the other unknown. Sadly, each lost 100% of their leaves and the entire upper 60% to 70% of the branches. As a comparison, the 2 same-size/same-age Moro oranges on Carrizo Citrange r/s with the same 3-layer wrapping (cut and stapled: plastic 42 gal. bags, landscape fabric on top, and another layer of the bags on top of that) lost "only" 50% of the leaves and the top one foot of 2009 growth. Does anyone have a mature Golden grapefruit that went though 14 degrees with no protection and can give a 'report card'?

A big thumbs down on thomasville. I haven't tasted one that didn't stink yet.

I don't like Sunquat either. It is a giant kumquat with a very bland flavor. I got the seed for mine from one of the guys who discovered it, Dr Nagle. I topworked my large tree to changshou kumquat as I didn't like sunquat marmalade. \

How many kumquats can you eat anyway, especially giant ones? My answer is very few. The changshou marmalade rocks.

Last year the 19F we had all the oranges and grapefruit defoliated. The satsumas were untouched.

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

Carrizo or sour orange are not a good rootstocks for 8B. Stick with trifoliate or flying dragon.

Here is a link that might be useful: mrtexas

Triangle John:

I hope you have been covering up those citrus trees lately as it has been 20 degree temps in Eastern NC for a few weeks now.

MrTexas:
With the small greenhouse and a heater setup shown in your picture, couldn't someone simply grow the "standard" citrus varities?

My trees are suffering but it isn't anything fatal. Everyone is inside a hoophouse with numerous heating options - electric for the milder nights, kerosene for the really cold ones. I think the cold makes them bloom better in the spring.

Anyone has experience on BloomSweet grapefruit? How it tastes? McKenzie has it. I would love to grow one of these.
Thanks

The 3 mature Bloomsweet grapefruit trees have not faced any cold below 14 degrees, but they did do well with short exposure to 14 degrees with zero protection. The big load of fruit was picked prior to that freeze in January of 2010, and they were good to eat for almost 2 months despite just sitting in boxes in the garage during that time. The thick peeling developed a rich Gardenia-like aroma after a month or so, and the fruit dehydrated a small amount eventually. The taste is very much a lemon flavor that is mildly sweet while chewing, but becomes a grapefruit sour aftertaste. The sections can be broken off with no juice dripping. The amount of seeds is not excessive. The diameter varies from 3" to 5", and the smaller ones have thinner peeling, making them snack size. Two months ago, we had the start of several freezing nights that maxed out at about 21 degrees on multiple nights, so the fruit were all picked prefreeze. The last of the Gardenia-scented Bloomsweet grapefruit was eaten last week, and it was still quite good despite not being refridgerated for about 2 months. The 2 bigger trees are about 10 ft X 10 ft, so having to cover them would be a challenge if we ever get weather colder than a short-lived 14 degrees.