Questions about online sources for conifers

16 years ago

So after the wonderful advice I rec'd here I've decided to start adding some conifers to my front bed. I found Girards website but was looking for other sources of online sellers. I'd really like one where I could search by size (dwarfs and minis are where I need to start).

Also, I found a spruce on Girards that I love called "St Mary's Broom" under zone it just says zone 3 instead of a range like 1 to 3 or 3 to 10. If it just says 3 does it mean it's hardy zone 3 and colder or zone 3 and warmer?

Thanks,

Annette

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Comments (7)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
16 years ago
oh annie ... we all wish for that.. lol ...

google the AMer conifer society ... they have a database ... and tutorials.. etc ...

google all of the following, looking ofr pix.. and all info you can :

coenosium .. if i spelt it write ... lol
bethlehem nursery
stanley and sons
arrowhead alpines
foxwillow
gee tree farm
the British conf soc

look for pix... look for growth rate info ..

the chase is a big part of the fun ...

but most of all .. find a local arboretum ... and take a pad of paper and the digital ... and go see them in person ... gotta be something down in GA ...

zone listing would be coldest .... but your problem wont be cold.. it will be summer heat.. of which .. i can not help you .... and there is no zone info for hotness ... others here answer those ????'s ....

st mary ... ok.... from the ACS database.. you would discover its Picea pungens St Mary .... first go look up P. pungens.. and find it grows 12 to 18 inches per year ... gunna be a giant ... and then find its zone.. and then find its heat tolerance [probably here] ..

then database P. p. st mary .. and find its a dwarf or mini .. growing...for me.. since i was gazing at mine yesterday ... 3 inches per year ... obviously much more attuned to small gardens ...

then google Picea pungens st mary .. and find more info ...

its what keeps most of us going in the winter .. lol ... research ...

all that said.. find a supplier ... and just order 4 or so ... and have them mailed to you .. max 100 to 150 bucks.. and your collection is on the way ...

but do try to find a local .. labeled .. conifer garden ... what grows within 100 miles of you is an easier way to start .. than to search the world wide web.. and just get sooooo confused with toooo muchhhh info ....

good luck

ken

PS: your zone is so different than mine.. i hesitate to make specific recommendations ...

PPS: heres is a pic of my st mary .... look at the leader.. on this in situ plant for 4 years [meaning it is past transplant shock and fully 'established'] .. and you will see it grew about 3 inches.. though i understand that might be hard to tell without a scale ... you will have to take my word ....so the only question is.. ill Picea pungens take your summer heat??? i will get a better pic later ...

{{gwi:691109}}
picea
16 years ago
Hi Annette,

Before you start ordering conifers look around you area and see what type of conifers do well there. In you heat there are many that might do poorly. Once you find out what is doing well you can check and see what cultivars are available and decide what you would like to add to your landscape/garden.

One thing that should be noted is that if you like firs(Abies), make sure they are grafted on to Abies firma. It is the best understock for your area. Bethlehem Nursery has some selections of fir that have been grafted on to firma.

David
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at ten feet.. my skyrockets were AT LEAST FOUR FEET WIDE ... and it should be.. IMHO.. at least 3 to 4 feet from those stairs .. take a minute to look at the pix at the link.. and understand 18 inches is not enough .... [and they are rather sharp needled .. and i would never want them too close to bare arms.. and i would never shear a conifer .. hence the distance] ... regardless.. live and learn .... and i dont think of them as long lived plants ... it took mine about 10 years.. to start declining ... and by that time.. i was glad to get rid of them ... and may we presume.. they will all be properly mulched.. to ease proper watering... i am happy to see all the new folks here at GW.. we work hard at enabling .... lol thx for the pix ken Here is a link that might be useful: link
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Mark, It sounds like you are looking for: **Medium sized, semi-rare and rare conifers(2'-5') **Priced at or near wholesale **Limited to a medium sized order($500-1000 range I presume Goodluck on this. Many of these plants are fairly rare to begin with and seldom are grown to these larger sizes for 'retail' customers. Next, most wholesalers who deal in larger sizes sell their plants in massive lots(with many of the same cultivars going to one location) and with cost-effecient freight to make it affordable to retailers. There just isn't much of a market for this - and much of a profit. Your best bet is sticking with smaller specimens and occasionally finding a medium sized bargain plant to supplement and for instant gratification. I've built my own gardnens(over 1,000 conifers and maples) on smaller specimens probably averaging $15-25 a specimen. Some are 1-year grafts, others 4-6 year, but all will be nice enough specimens in a decade or so. Patience is a gardener's best friend. Now if you're willing to spend A LOT of money, I've seen at least a couple people on these forums place orders for 80-100 nice sized(4'-10') specimens and had them delivered. They didn't post prices but it's safe to assume they still spent in the $10,000-20,000 range. Some large-stock wholesale nurseries still may not work with a single gardener as even at those amounts, it's hard for them to turn a significant profit. -Will One more thing to note. Last winter I did an extensive 'review' report on about 15 different online nurseries. Some do sell larger stock(4-10 years old) and some have pretty reasonable prices and shipping. If you're really interested and want to get some good, unbiased insight into some of the more common online nurseries, check them out.
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When I get the Brandy Boy seeds I'll let you know the country of origin. Wal-Mart is well-known for pushing hard to get companies to pack products specifically for them that they can sell at the price they negotiate. During the last several years, the Burpee seed packs on the seed racks in Wal-Mart have had ever-decreasing seed counts. From comments posted on garden forums, it was clear that gardeners were noticing the lower seed counts and were not happy. Gone Fishin' and I both noticed the difference in Burpee tomato seed counts about 3 or 4 years ago. You could buy a packet of Burpee Porterhouse seed on-line for about $4.00 or $4.25 back then and get about 45 to 50 seeds--I don't remember the exact amount. You also could get Burpee Porterhouse on the seed rack at Wal-Mart for $1.37 a pack, but each pack only had 7 to 9 seeds. So, you actually would have spent more at Wal-Mart to get 40-50 seeds of Burpee Porterhouse. Of course, not many people want to plant 40-50 seeds of one variety in a home garden, so you could argue that the Wal-Mart Burpee seed packs were "sized-down" for the convenience of home gardeners. I noticed the same small seed counts with Burpee Highlight Zinnia on the racks at Wal-Mart either last year or the year before. I got 50 seeds in the Burpee mail-order packet for a higher price that was probably $4.00 or $4.50. Then, out of curiousity, I bought the same Burpee Highlight Zinnia (new that year) at Wal-Mart to test my theory about lower seed counts. I bought 4 packs for either $1.07 or 1.37 and each of them had 8 to 11 seeds. So, something is going on and I just wonder if Burpee got tired of selling smaller and smaller seed count packages because, if the consumer got mad about the smaller seed counts, you can bet they blamed Burpee and not Wal-Mart. It could have become a PR issue that Burpee just didn't need. There's also the possibility that F-M did commit to using U.S.-grown seed. I don't know. There's even the possibility that Burpee, which is after all a premier name in the seed industry, negotiated better deals for itself with Lowe's and Home Depot (and we don't have a K-Mart near us, but I know they've had Burpee seeds in recent years too) and that they dumped Wal-Mart. Sound far-fetched? Maybe, but it wouldn't surprise me. I ordered five packets of seeds from Stokes Seeds recently, and they just arrived the other day. Here's what I got and their nation of origin. Note that each variety had a different nation of origin: Tomato--Mountain Fresh Plus VFFN (India) Tomato--Mountain Glory VFFF/TSWV (Thailand) Watermelon--Yellow Doll (Peru) Rudbeckia--Bright Star (Germany) Liatris Spicata--Kobold (Holland) They all were stamped with the "country of origin" but then also were stamped "packed in Canada" (Stokes is a Canadian company, I think, although they have a U.S. sales branch). What does this mean? It tells me the seed companies are probably buying seeds from whichever grower in whichever country gives them the best wholesale price. Who can blame them? Would I prefer to buy only U.S.-grown seed. Of course, I would always prefer to keep jobs in the U.S. But, judging from the meager selection on the F-M racks at Wal-Mart, the number of varieties grown in the U.S for major seed companis is rather small.
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bunkers
16 years ago
I had a great experience with forestfarm. I highly reccomend them for an online nursery. Their shipping was quick and packing impeccable. I saw on davesgarden that many others had a similar experience. I reccomend calling them if/when you place and order ... they will help you and don't rush you at all. You can even place orders well into the future.
dredawg5000
16 years ago
I live in the Atlanta area and have 2 St Marys Brooms that i ordered from Girard's and they are growing very well.

The first I ordered last spring was a very good size and has really grown very fast!! Doubled in size!!

The second I ordered this spring is smaller than the one i received last year (although both were ordered as 2yr grafts), non the less its doing fine as well.

Be careful about price/size and shipping costs....it can add up pretty quickly.
arceesmith
16 years ago
Wow Ken, you're getting some nice growth there. Here is a picture of a much older specimen.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'St. Mary's Broom'
dredawg5000
16 years ago
Annette

If your going to mail order to Georgia you best do it now as it will soon be to hot.

Most mail order houses will not ship during the summer.
tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
16 years ago
Here's a site that separates by conifer size.

tj

Here is a link that might be useful: Cloud Mountain

Questions about online sources for conifers

Comments (7)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

picea

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bunkers

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