I've had a 'giant aeonium' since 2012 and boy did I treat it rough.

It's still quite small & from the definition of 'hard grown' certainly was. It also never dropped leaves and only got taller. He's a pretty happy fella.

He now has company in the form of the multi-headed plant linked below (looks similar to yours, except it's green) and 2 others that have turned burgandy when given proper light.

At least that's what I think as when moved to a different exposure in the house, both of those reddish plants responded the same way & have now become a rich maroon.

The one below also has wavy leaves that kind of point in different directions. I wasn't sure whether to attribute that to the re-pot, the mealies I'm fighting, it's acclimating from California to NY, or all of the above -____-

I'm quite enjoying mine the way it is, except for the mealies and I had it turned so that the back of it was facing the incoming light (western exposure in front of triple sliders) in hopes that it will produce additional heads back there.

Sorry I don't have anything useful to add, I'm looking forward to hearing responses to your questions as I'm learning about these too =)

Here is a link that might be useful: a. arboreum

I think your leaves are curling for the same reason mine are - light from a different angle. I've found Aeoniums move a LOT in response to light. They curl up in little fists when the light is too strong; almost turn themselves inside-out to absorb weak light, and bend in all directions to catch sun from different angles. It's one of the things I like about them. They never sit still.

Mine was very deep burgundy when I got it - almost black. The new growth is rich kiwi green, which looked really nice juxtaposed against the burgundy, but now it's lost so many burgundy leaves the nice contrast is gone. It'll soon be as green as yours.

What is the smaller Aeonium you have with all the thin stems? I love the other-worldly look of it - like a tree out of an Isaac Asimov novel.

This post was edited by kwie2011 on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 19:28

Kwie - Photo load has a big influence on how many leaves your plant will retain behind the growing tips of branches (apices). Grown outdoors, mine support about twice the volume of foliage as when grown indoors under light.

I really like the way your plant looks now - a very interesting look. Because of it's growth habit though, it's going to outgrow how it looks now and start looking gangly. Have you considered that beheading all the branches before long (maybe early next summer) will produce a cluster of branches, each terminating in rosettes at the end of each existing branch?

{{gwi:5137}}

Al

Thanks, Al. I might've never learned that on my own. Such an odd plant. The way this one grows reminds me of a Dr. Suess tree right now, but I have wondered how it'll look as it gets bigger. Beheading it makes me nervous. Does it need to lose all its rosettes in order to branch, or just the rosette on whichever arm(s) I'd like to have more rosettes? How do I determine how short to cut each branch? Do the new branches each emerge at the terminal end of the existing branch, or do they pop up along the whole length of the cut branch?

Appreciate the info, thanks.

It loses rosettes naturally only when the rosette flowers.

If you're going to chop, do it soon, as now is its primary growth season. Aeoniums come in all flavours, in terms of growth habits - there are some that grow all year long, and some that don't, and some in-between. The one you have is known for year-around growth, although that does taper during summer heat.

The new growing points are often several on a cut branch, so leave as much as you can extending from the trunk, while still getting enough stem on your cuttings to root.

If you look at the picture I posted, you can see where I chopped off a single fat stem/trunk, very low to the ground. I sealed the wound with waterproof wood glue so the tissue around the wound wouldn't dry out and die back. From around the wound and below it, a LOT of new branches grew. I rubbed off all the buds below the branches you see in the picture, and kept the 6 or 7 buds that gave me the most even spacing around the point where I chopped it back. Those buds are the branches you see with the big rosettes at the end.

I cut these back very hard all the time. The chances of the plant dying are about 0. The only way I can see the plant not pushing a lot of new growth after cutting it back hard is if you did it at a point where its vitality was such that you'd have to say the plant was already circling the drain.

All the branches don't need to be cut back, but those you don't cut back will have one rosette, while the branches you trimmed will have a LOT of branches, each with its own rosette.

There will be other branches that occur along the branch behind the cuts. You can keep the ones in places you think compliment the composition, or just rub the buds off as they appear with your fingers.

As far as how long/short to cut the branches - it doesn't matter. As you cut them back, imagine you're going to have a cluster of rosettes at the end of the (now) existing branches. Make your cuts so that once the new branches start growing, the clusters of rosettes are nicely spaced. For the most natural look, you'll be cutting each of the branches back to different lengths, I'm sure.

All of the cut ends can easily be started as new plants. Once, after pruning one of these, I left the cuttings lie on the basement grow bench from Feb to late Apr. While lying on the bench, they grew adventitious (air) roots, and when I potted them up, they took right off. It's a VERY hardy plant. It's main enemy is a soggy soil.

Al

This post was edited by tapla on Tue, Nov 18, 14 at 20:34

Thanks again, guys. I can never see your photos, Al. I use my phone for internet, and it doesn't work with Photobucket for some reason. I think I have a pretty good understanding from your description though. How long does it take for the branches to look good again?

I remember reading about those cuttings in your basement in another post. I have about half a dozen branches I've been trying to root since August (nursery let me take them), but as of now, none has any visible roots. I have one cutting in with the mother plant, one in with a fern, and 4-5 in a cup of pumice, but none are warm or in bright light (in western Oregon, they're probably only a little warmer, lighter, and dryer than a basement). Any pointers?

The thin stemmed aeonium is a.haworthii, sometimes called pinwheel aeonium. I think I'm doubling up on plants that I really like the growing habit of.

I have an a.gomerense that looks exactly like the haworthii :0) I wonder if they are in fact the same plant or maybe someone got their tags mixed up.

One of the reddish ones I mentioned above has set his leaves so that they are laying flat against the stem. They sure are funny plants! Leaves feel firm and fleshy so I don't expect anything's wrong.

I've read that a well placed beheading benefits these plants, it was one of the things that attracted me. I'm hoping to have a plant large enough to chop by next summer :D

After I aquired the plant linked above, I got to googling to see how it was that all the stems and rossettes seemed to be arrranged like flowers in a vase. Sure enough, as Al mentioned, it's accomplished through strategic beheading ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: beheading an aeonium

How long does it take for the branches to look good again? If you do it in the early summer, the plant will start pushing new growth almost immediately. By the same time next summer, if the plant stays healthy, all the buds you didn't rub off will have formed branches and each will have a defined rosette.

I would really encourage people who really enjoy growing to experiment with how plants respond to different ways of pruning. What you will find, rather quickly, that plants respond in predictable ways. Cut off the growing tip and the branch is going to back-bud. There are a few exceptions, but you can pretty much depend on that being the case. Young plants especially, are 100% or nearly 100% dynamic mass, which means they have what in humans or animals would be a strong will to live. As long as they're healthy, they'll tolerate a lot and come back for more. Once you learn how to manipulate the plant and bend it to your will, you add another layer to the growing experience from which you can gain even more satisfaction. Not to go all touchy feely on you, but it also leaves you with a sense of being more connected to your plants.

What cuttings are you trying to root? Are they internodal or tip cuttings?

I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you could take a long section of Aeonium stem and carefully bend it in an s-curve - using a wire to hold it in that shape if need be. If you just lay it on the soil, it will root into the soil and produce a lot of stems growing upward from the cutting. This is often done in bonsai with tree branches and it produces what is called a 'raft' style planting.

Al

Hmmm... Thanks, Al. I guess you'd call the cuttings tip-cuttings. They're each about 4 inches of stem with a rosette on the end. I do have a 3-inch piece of stem just lying in with the mother plant to see what would happen. I guess you'd call it an internodal cutting. When you bend such s piece into an S-curve, are you leaving the entire surface in contact with the medium? What is the purpose of the curve, just for a more attractive shape as it grows?

Hookilau - I might keen an eye out for an A. haworthii or gomerensi. Whichever it is, it's s very cool plant. I like your taste in Aeoniums.

Do you know what a bulb pan is? It's a pot that's much larger in diameter than it is tall. Terra cotta bulb pans make excellent containers for succulents, as well as very useful training containers for bonsai. What I was picturing in my mind's eye was an 8-10" chunk of aeonium stem with the apex chopped off that was pretty limp from lying on the grow bench for a week or two, and that you had gently bent in the shape of an 'S' and laid on top of the soil in an 8" pan so the full length of the cutting was in contact with the soil. Our A. arboreums would be perfect for this app.

If you imagine maybe 10-12 stems growing off the 8" piece you would be working with (difficult to get much of an s curve in a 3" cutting, but any curve would be better than no curve), you can see (again, in your mind's eye) that the composition would be much more interesting if the stems emanated from a lazy 'S' as opposed to a straight line.

I have a small pot full of the A. arboreum 'Zwartkopf' that I use just for cuttings for give-away plants. I looked at it as I was watering a little bit ago and I see how what is a mess right now can become interesting with a prune job. Maybe it will ease your hesitancy about clipping if I take a few pics and explain why I'm cutting in certain areas.

Al

...oops, double post.

This post was edited by kwie2011 on Thu, Nov 20, 14 at 21:48

=D

I'm convinced they are the same plant.
I have them side by side & cannot see a difference.

Nevertheless, I'm enjoying them both!

It took the 'a.gomerense' about 2 weeks to strike roots from a cutting here in my climate.

I'm thrilled & when I peeked under the rosette, there was a long white fairly thick aerial root extending from underneath down to the potting X.

From what I've read, they're pretty common.

What's growing at the foot of your aeonium?....are those additional rosettes or something else?

Al, I wouldn't mind seeing how you prune, but I'm still not sure I'd want to cut mine back just yet. I've only had it since August. I don't think it's even had time to recover from its abuse in the nursery (overwatered, falling over in the pot, barely any living roots). I don't think it's even established in its new pot and grit yet (still bungeed). Might a small root system also contribute to that leaf drop? (Just thought of that.) I haven't managed to get any cuttings to root yet, so I'm not yet confident in this particular plant's vigor in this climate. My small 'Ruby' was growing very fast until I had to bring it in from the cold.

Hookilau, there's an Echeveria, a jade, and a rooting (hopefully) Aeonium rosette at the base of the big plant. What time of year had you taken the cutting that rooted so fast? How warm was it? It seems succulents do everything slower here - likely do to cool weather and low light.

I got the cutting about 2 weeks ago.

It's cold here in NY now, but was just getting cold when I started it. I've got it under a shop light, in a mix heavy with perlite, nothing special.

The room it's in is also very sunny (eastern exposure) from sunrise to about mid-day. I stuck it in the coarse mix & misted every day up until I noticed the root & new leaves today.

This *never* happens to me lol! Usually stuff rots away before it roots for me, but the misting daily is a new thing. I'd never done that before & I'm guessing maybe that might've helped.

Might a small root system also contribute to that leaf drop? Yes. A compromised or diseased root system limits the amount of foliage the plant can support. In some cases, a grower might wish to prune the root system very harshly. If the plant happens to be dormant or in a post dormancy phase of quiescence, the plant will self-limit the number of dormant buds it will/can activate so the root system's ability to keep up with the organism's water demands isn't in jeopardy, only activating latent buds as the plant's ability to support them becomes certain. Since jades aren't temperate plants, shedding foliage and branches would be a protective mechanism the plant would hold to help the root system remain abreast of the canopy's water demands.

Root growth always comes first, followed by top growth. When a seed germinates, what is the first indication the seedling is growing? It's the seed radicle (tap root) splitting the seed and growing geotropically, situating itself to best take advantage of the supply of water & nutrients the top of the plant will soon need. Tight roots limit the volume of foliage a plant's root system can support. Less leaf surface = less photosynthesizing surface = a reduction in the plant's ability to make food and create energy for current and future use - effectively reducing vitality and growth rate. What limits the size and/or efficiency of the root system is limits growth and vitality.

You're doing the right thing by not working your plant(s) until well established and growing well. No arm twisting to start hacking your plants back - just wanting you to see there can be rewards in the results of pruning even succulents at some point in their life. I'll get after pruning the little pot of Aeoniums this wknd & send u the pics.

Al

Al I would also enjoy seeing those pics. I have a Zwartkopf that I would like to get a few ideas what to do with if you have the time. :)

Upthread, there's a plant with a single stem (originally) and a description of how it got to look like a neat cluster of rosettes.

Keep in mind that the plant below is one I just had around for cuttings. It's growth is stunted because it's been in a container, with tight roots for 3 years, from which it can't be removed w/o breaking the container.

Here's the plant before I pruned it. As someone who focuses on bonsai and as a bonsai judge, I know that almost all bonsai compositions are roughly triangular in shape, and what I noticed about this planting is that it could be made roughly triangular with a little pruning.

So I pruned it into what will be a scalene triangular shape once it recovers from the chop. It's difficult to see, but all the stems are cut so they're at different hts to help ensure the plant won't look too much like topiary.

To keep the cuts from dying back, I neatly covered the cut ends, making sure to seal the edges of the cambium but not let the glue lap over onto the phellem (outer skin of the stem). I use waterproof wood glue for this and usually use a toothpick to spread it over small cuts and a twig to spread the glue over larger cuts. It's important to do this if you don't want the cut stem to dry and shrivel up to some undetermined point proximal to the cut. There are some prepared cuttings next to the pot. I've left cuttings of this plant on the bench for months at a time, entirely exposed to the air. The cuttings formed adventitious roots and grew as though nothing was amiss when potted up months later.

Yes, the plant doesn't look so hot right now, but when it starts to come back in the spring it might just look good enough to make me want to break the pot it's in and repot it. We'll see - I'll try to remember this thread and to post an 'after' picture. ...... not much in these pictures to 'inspire', other than the promise the plant WILL come back, predictably in an attractive and roughly triangular shape that looks natural and pleasing to the eye.

Al

Thank you, Al. I hate to ask after all you've done, but can you upload those photos to GardenWeb, or email them to me? I would really love to see your work, but for reasons I don't understand, images on Photobucket won't work with my phone (my only internet) no matter how I try to access them, or what browser I use. Your descriptions usually work for me, but this time it's too complex.

Thank you.

You should have them in your mail now.

Al

I appreciate it too Al! Gives me an Idea what to do this coming spring! Thanks :)
(Thanks Kwie for posting this topic!)

Fantastic thread.
Can't wait to see what this will look like in the spring =)

Thanks for the tutorial, and for sending me the pictures, Al. If you forget about this post, I will remind you to let us see how your Aeonium comes back from its little trim.

About the original subject: we've had unseasonably warm weather the last week or so, so I put my Aeoniums back on the balcony, and the leaf drop in the big one has slowed almost to a stop. Its twisted leaves have also corrected themselves now that it doesn't have reflected light from the mirror hitting it at odd angles.

My little A. a. 'Ruby' doesn't lose leaves, but it bends, opens, curls, droops, and dances around in response to light and other stimuli. Did you know that Aeonium leaves stop growing when they hit an obstacle? In the window, the leaves on the side that touched the window stayed short so the plant was asymmetric (it's just a single stem and rosette still). Once back on the balcony, the short leaves grew very quickly so it's now symmetrical again. It's a crazy plant. It can visibly change in as little as an hour - like an anemone in slow motion. Strangely, the larger one isn't nearly as active.

K - remember the photo of the plant I cut back pretty hard on Nov 23?
This one:

You can see, already, the dozens of buds that have already erupted behind the branch truncating cuts.

Each of the new clusters of tiny leaves represents the formation of a new branch. I'll select branches to keep in areas that will compliment the future composition, and use the tool leaning against the plant to rub off all the new branches in places that will detract from the plant's appearance.

It's an ugly thing now, but with a little time and patience, it will end up looking pretty neat. I was actually going to pitch this plant because it's vitality is waning considerably due to its having been in that pot for several years. I'll break the pot in spring & repot.

Al

I was searching aeoniums, because I was given several in rough shape. Al, what ended up happening with your pruning demo? I would love to see a picture if you continued this project.

The plant got knocked off the grow bench on its head in late Sep (squirrel, I'm sure), which broke the main half of the stem off at the base and uprooted the other half, which was barely rooted anyway, so I took a couple of cuttings and started those. In all honesty, the plant was growing very poorly, and I could see that the stem was compromised at the point where it came out of the ground. I remembered I'd taken a picture of it for this thread, which made me reluctant to toss it, but as I think back on things, the tiny size of the rosettes when I pruned it and it's subsequent refusal to put roots down should have told me something was wrong.

This plant's history includes a long stay at my business. I noticed it was doing poorly, so at some point I decided to take it home for an outdoor summer vacation. What I think happened to it at work is, the window washers we have come in every 2 weeks aren't careful around the plants on the window sills. I think they likely allowed some of the soap solution they use on the windows to get into the soil. I've tossed or given away a lot of aeoniums, but this is the first that gave me any growing issues.

Al

My suggestion is not to prune back your A. arboreum atropurpureum. I don't think they like it.

I took your advice to cut mine back, Al, and ruined it. The cuttings from it are fine, but the stem, like yours, has never recovered. It sits there season after season with one pathetic rosette. That crazy Dr. Seuss-looking plant I loved so much is gone.

I've been told this species doesn't have a lot of roots. Yours seems to support that, so does mine. I don't think your window washers have anything to do with it.

If you must trip, trim only selected rosettes. From what I see, cutting back to twigs leaves you with nothing but twigs.

My experience, except for the single plant discussed immediately above, has all been positive re cutting them back. It's always resulted in a profusion of back-budding and no root issues, as long as the plant was healthy when it was cut back and subsequently not over-watered. This plant was probably 2' tall when I cut it back to an inch or so above the soil line:

Even the plant I ended up pitching illustrates a profusion of back-budding that occured only days after the plant is cut back:

Al