Mimic the outdoors for your photoperiod length. That first photo is interesting. Good luck Nate.

Dax

nice closeups ...

if you mimic nature in the period.. one would have to insure that the intensity is the same as the sun ... and you lights wont be ...

when i did rootings under lights ... 4 florescent at 2 inches above the plants ... i was running 16 hours on .. 8 off.. with one on/off period in between .... the on/off is said to confuse the plant into thinking the lights were on 24/7 ... never really saw any documentation regarding that... but it saves about 7 1/2 hours of electric billings ...

good luck

ken

Nate..beautiful photos!
I too have a 16 hour light cycle. I'm sharing the building with a cage full of canaries...16 hours must be molting season, year around, little yellow feathers in everything...
Anyway, during that 16 hours the lights are also cycled on and off every 30 minutes; not only for energy savings but also to prevent heat build-up. The problem I'm having with grafts is burning tips of rootstock in an attempt to get light to the scion.
Now with summer coming on, the lights are on the "heat" end of a Cooling/Heating controller that came with our used greenhouse. When the building hits ~78F, the lights go off while at ~82 the evap. cooler comes on; I'm not saying this is the right way to do things, just what works in my situation.
Your grafts should appreciate the extra light if in a low light situation. Hopefully another grower can help out with the correct photo-period. Again..watch out for heat!

Question of the day:

Light intensity and photo-period are two different things;
will a longer photo-period compensate for a deficiency in light intensity?

Barbara

Barbara, a good and still unanswered question!

Dax, here is an update on the first one.
P. nigra 'Pinehurst'
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And a few others.

P. aristata (bud has elongated, but no breakage)
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P. pungens (J. Morris selection, weeping form)
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This P. pungens 'Lucretia' has really taken off. Most of the understock is removed, following Bluespruce's technique (almost; I haven't planted it in the ground yet!). A selection discovered in 1949 by Bob Morris at a nursery in Evergreen, CO.
{{gwi:677921}}

Jeez, your photos are terrific Nate! Congratulations...I share your excitement as those buds expand and unfurl.

My only definitive grafting success so far has been with Chamaecyparis. Maybe that is just what I am destined to grow...

There is a "growing under lights" forum here...thinking I'll mosey on over to see what they can tell us about photoperiod and light intensity.

Barbara

Barbara,

Glad to hear you're having success with the Chamaecyparis.

It's no fun losing grafts, even if you go into it with that expectation.

Out of about 80 grafts, 40 are toast. 20 look like they might make it (e.g. buds pushing or breaking). The other 20 seem to be in some sort of limbo. Not dying, but the buds are comatose.

Here's an example. Pinon pine grafted onto plug. Yes, it's a giant scion, on the vertical! Dwarfing the understock which is bent off to the side! I grafted two of these edulis-on-edulis combos; the other one is long gone. This one is still hanging on. Is that normal, for a scion to go dormant?
{{gwi:677922}}
{{gwi:677923}}

Another thing that seems to be happening is that scions taken from trees growing vigorously in sunshine are doing better than scions taken from shaded trees. Of the Lucretia grafts, almost all of the scions from the sun-exposed trees have broken bud, but no buds have broken for the scions taken from the shaded tree.

As I've been hardening off the grafts, starting with the roadside experiments, it's clear that the grafting bands don't last long under natural sunlight and disintegrate pretty quickly. I've found a couple of the roadside scions hanging down like flaps after the bands broke. I don't want that to happen with the others. Should I just keep wrapping on new bands? Is there a UV resistant band? Or maybe use wire temporarily until the union is firmly secured?

Finally, your suggestion in late March to move them indoors (from their perch on the snowbank) seems to have been a good one. April was a bit brutal. Thank you!

Nate, I guess we're talking about two things, light intensity (always going to be the same, not enough intensity, then you'll lose grafts). I know nothing of running 30 minute intervals like Barb is doing. Her "heat" cooler thing sure sounds like a winner. That's funny you've tricked your birds Barb. It seems to me that hopping over to the "Growing Under Lights" forum and linking this thread could be a smart thing to do. There's a lot of information here though that is "out of the norm."

Buds not expanding fully but graft successfully meaning that they calloused over properly will break the following year. That's a normal occurance. It may not happen often, however, it does happen. Your bands breaking and the fall of the scion simply means that the graft did not callous either (A) in time, or they never took to begin with. It seems to me that if they fall however, part (A) is actually just a way of saying that it might be possibly, yet very unlikely!..... You had a scion that looked ok but it would have died. That's just a way of you understanding that it wouldn't have taken, no way on that.

Nate, you should wrap all those grafts in parafilm tape. I'd also try if "I were You" to seal the working area with the bud strip so there are no gaps. The tape and bud strip are then removed the next year during spring.

If you can manage : Temperature, Light, & Humidity you'll be successful. For conifers needing light to break and grow, I'm quite sure you're looking at using at minimum a 1000 Watt Metal Halide for a space 6' x 6' or even a stronger bulb. I really recommend a camping tent in white as it will not only keep humididy, solid... the material itself, "breathes". Plus, a cool humidifier, and you're in ...........

As I say, "good luck!"

Dax

Excuse me, you should be able to take the tape off / rubber band when you up-pot your grafts (the same year). ; That resolves your issue of whether your graft was successful..........

Dax

Hi Nate,

I wonder if the "vineyard" budding bands are meant to break down faster?
Gosh, I hope not!
Or maybe they are old...if so I'm really sorry.

Dax has a good idea in keeping an eye out for bands ready to fail, then wrap them back up with that parafilm tape I'd sent along...did Jerry say "you don't need that stuff"?

That is interesting about bud break and sun/shade. Have you noticed your plants outside actually breaking bud sooner on the warmer, sunny side? Perhaps scions from the shaded side are just slightly delayed. I'm having a similar occurrence so this, from Dax, certainly gives me hope:
"Buds not expanding fully but graft successfully meaning that they calloused over properly will break the following year."
As most my Abies scions from the fridge look and feel healthy, but no sign of bud-break after over 6 weeks of being grafted.

When and how much of the understock gets cut off if buds fail to break but the graft is still successful?

Barbara

Picea's - keep on for one year. Everything else is at the discression of the grafter. I chop everything off of anything that isn't very miniature. Those I'd keep one branch or two. The bud strip will disentigrate quickly. Your call.

Dax

Dax,
Thanks again for the information. It's helpful for me to get continuing feedback as I work through these things, so your advice about changing this or tweaking that is invaluable. And it's good to know the dormant buds still have a chance!

Barbara,
The budding bands (wide or thin) do ok so long as they're inside down in the basement under the light. When I move the trees outside to harden off, it seems like the sun starts to take a heavy toll. You're right, Jerry said no need for the parafilm tape. However, since I'm in the experimental mode, next time a band is about to break maybe I'll throw some on there and see what happens. Ps. will be going over to see his garden tomorrow, stay tuned for pics!

About the trees outside, I haven't noticed any difference in bud break when comparing sunny side to shaded side. When the buds start popping, it's pretty much all over the tree.

A few more updates.

Picea pungens 'Mile Up 92'
It looks like two year old wood for this scion. Jerry said the take rate might be lower, but if it does take then you're starting with a bigger tree.
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Abies
Originally I thought this was bifolia, but now believe it might be concolor (due to the suction cups at the base of the needles)?
{{gwi:677925}}
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Interesting selection of grafting material you have there Nate.

That would be Jerry as in Jerry Morris, Stephen.

Looking great Nate!

Dax