Hey Brat! How is Mr. Peanut doing? Unfortunately his parents met a sad end. I told that DH of mine to please dig them up for me and put them in the cellar. A couple of weeks ago I went looking for them and I asked where they were and DH brought me out in the yard and pointed to where they were growing. "Did you dig them up like I asked you to?" "Um, I forgot." Yep, not a happy camper about Elephant Ears right now. Okay onto your little dilema now. Countryman's--boy did I love that place. The person who truly knows about it is judyefd--you would love her, she is really a sweetheart. Ping her if you have any other questions about Countrymans but I will try to help you out as much as I can. I think the flowers will be in bloom in the next couple of weeks, I think this whole section of the country is a few weeks behind schedule for flowers (I know that my yard is certainly out of sync compared to previous flowering schedules). Here is the hard part. They only sells certain peonies every year and I understand that they are never the same. They have a catalog of what they will be selling for this year (DH called and he was told that we should receive on within the next couple of weeks). Now you can go and actually see what the plant is going to look like when it is blooming (the bad part is that they have hundred of plants and only so many that they sell each year and of course if you are like me you want everything that they are selling and everything that they aren't selling this year. If you see a particular peony that you would like to be put on a list for if they are going to sell it next year they are more that happy to do that. This is the hardest part for me. You don't go home with the plant, they will dig it up in September (the best time to dig up and to tranplant peonies) and you can either go back and pick up what you purchased or you can have what you purchased mailed to you (I love the drive and the area so I of course choose to pick them up). I purchased three last year, Nick Shaylor, Myrtle Tischler and based on what Judye suggested a Vivid Rose. I will be making the trip again, I don't know when but it is definately worth it. Are you going to Annie's Plant Swap? Wendi

* Posted by: karenm 7 ) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 12:52 Well, I'm posting again. I had the original post 4mts ago. Have managed a few more mistakes in this time. Being a new gardener, I am always looking for free plants so one friend (maybe she really doesn't like me) gave me, gooseneck loosestrife, wild violets, periwinkle, and several mints. (ALL of these are considered VERY INVASIVE!) I planted the gooseneck in with my roses to cover the Roses leggy bottoms. Next spring I will begin the process of elimination. Already pulled up all the mints. I like the violets so far, but they have not invaded anywhere I don?t want them to be. Also, went to a plant sale with same friend and bought several plants with Latin names and metric measurements. (I haven't gotten that far in my education.) Did not have a clue what most of them were, but they were at a good price. Anyway, I bought some aster. I knew what that was. Yea, right. It grew to be about 5-feet tall and 3-4 feet wide. I had planted it in the front of the bed. It looked like Godzilla stepping all over my other sweet and dainty plants. To make matters worse, I too tried to move this huge monstrosity in 100-degree heat. Needless to say it did not live. Would loved to have seen it in bloom. For that matter, I have quite a few plants I have never seen bloom because I move them so much. Gotta get that perfect placement ya know. I'm looking forward to spring to see what new adventures are awaiting me! * Posted by: wavesmom sf calif (My Page) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 14:53 I have been gardening for years, and composting for 3. My worst mistake was when I dug up the crabgrass, and wanting to be the perfect composter, threw the crabgrass in the compost. My pile doesn't get hot enough to kill seeds. Guess what I have EVERYWHERE in my yard. Note to self: if you don't want the plant everywhere in the yard, don't compost it. I had the same experience (same year) with tomatoes. I could have fed the masses with the number of tomato plants that came up. * Posted by: Nelz z5b/6 NW PA (My Page) on Wed, Nov 13, 02 at 22:57 I had the worst one until this afternoon. 1 - A few years back I started all my cukes and squash (summer and winter) and melons in peat pots inside to get a few week head start when they hit the ground. I had the following number of varieties; 2 cukes, 4 winter squash, 3 summer squash, 3 watermelon, 2 canteloupes. I had several plants of each type. More than I needed, but you know, always plant a few extra in case all do not germinate. Everything germ'd. After 10 days I sorted everything out, what I wanted, and what I'd toss. My mother in law plants everything, and even though her garden was in, she said she'd take the rejects. I gave the flat explaining it was a lot of cukes and a few squash and 1 watermelon. Wrong, as in wrong flat. I forget which was which. I had cukes out the ear, and mom was nice enough to share the harvest. 2-Use only clean straw! I think I got oat straw, with all the oats attached. At $1 a bale I got excited and loaded up the truck. I put my beds to sleep for the winter, planted my garlic, and mulched HEAVILY with the straw. Every bed is growing lots of green blades through the straw. So, here I am weeding in November. I'm limiting my work to the garlic beds, the rest will be a 'covercrop' that I'll hoe in next spring. At least they pull up easy. PS - This is an awesome thread, and I didn't see many mistakes, just learning experiences!! * Posted by: bdot z7 NC (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 13:25 1st, what is a "DH"? Every time I see that I think designated hitter and it confuses me. :) My first mistake was when I moved into my house 2 years ago. The back yard was small but was over grown with weeds and vines and stuff. I loved it cause it's a good animal habitat. The wild rose bush (it's the kind that's invasive that people hate but I've come to love) is about 10 ft wide, 15 ft long and about 7 ft tall. Anyways, I decided I would clear out some of the wild grape and also honeysuckle from the trees especially all the dogwoods. Well I'm happily pulling things out and since it's the winter (no leaves on vines) I didn't think until I started itching. Let's just say I used to get poison ivy by just being in the same town as it is in. It hit the blood stream and I had it for 3 straight months. Near the end I had a swollen shut eye and had to get medicine. Went to Immediate Care (since I don't have a doctor since that requires setting up an appointment 3 months in advance) and they gave me allergy medicine. Luckily mom works for a doctor and got me some good pills and I haven't had poison ivy since even though I work next to it when feeding the tigers. My other mistake was in a way related. I had read that jewelweed helps keep you from getting poison ivy. It did wonders back when I did get it and would rub it on the spot. Well anyone that knows about jewelweed knows it has the water-resistant leaves. Well I had made a flowerbed beside my house. I couldn't get much to grow last year in the severe drought. Well these 2 plants came up that looks just like jewelweed leaves. i was so happy that I continually watered them. They got up to 1ft.. then 5 ft... then 10 ft.. ok, somethings wrong. Either I have a very happy jewelweed plant or that's not what it is. I did some investigating on the web. I found out I had lambs quarter. HA HA HA! I hate killing plants so I didn't want to take it down but then I knew the thing would reseed one day and that would be a mess. Luckily after it was up to about 13-14ft, we had a heavy rain and wind. Knocked both plants sideways into the yard. Didn't kill them but they were in the way so I removed them. * Posted by: Storey z8b TX (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 17:58 One of my most recent was allowing my friend to walk through my pepper patch. He tried a few peppers and asked what they were after tasting. Before I could stop him, he tried a habanero... I never knew anyone could run to a hose that fast or drink that much water at one time :o) Fortunately, he survived, but now he asks about the plants BEFORE he tries them. Stephen * Posted by: Peach_Fuzz 4 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 26, 03 at 18:36 Bdot, DH is "Dear Husband" in our land of abbreviated computer lingo. (although I'm going to think "designated hitter" now!) * Posted by: valeriePA z6 PA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 27, 03 at 6:42 I repeat it every year-too many seedlings and plants and not enough prepared soil. The seedlings or plants end up dying waiting for me to dig up more of the lawn. I think I'll give lasagna gardening a try this year. * Posted by: MaryMarg Zone9/San Jose (My Page) on Thu, Feb 27, 03 at 15:27 We moved into our first home four years ago, and had a gorgeous bougainvillia draping over the tops of the french doors to our bedroom. New to gardening, my husband and I couldn't figure why it "died" several months after moving in. My husband, escaping with multiple minor cuts and several colorful expletives, managed to remove it. We found out several weeks later (after it had been taken away by the garbage man) that the beautiful climber was merely dormant. Such remorse! * Posted by: somara ) on Fri, Feb 28, 03 at 15:10 I'm now starting my second year gardening and I have a feeling that I'll be a beginner for another 5-10 years. Here are last year's mistakes: 1. Plant swaps are great and the people are friendly; however, people are NOT giving you plants out of generosity... they just don't want to go home with what they brought. I finally understood this during the fall swap when I couldn't get rid of the last of my plants without having to take something from someone else. So I went home with another truckload and needless to say, most of it didn't make it in the ground again. So I'm only attending one swap a year now. 2. I found a small patch of Bermuda grass in my yard last spring. I thought I'd get around to it later. Nope. Bermuda grass will take over your entire yard the moment you turn your back on it. This year I'm breaking out the flame thrower. 3. Find out what the dimensions of the full grown plant is before you put it in the ground. That cute little wild current tomato that wouldn't grow for two months, eventually hit a growing spurt and took over the entire bed (4'x6'). It was STILL producing tomatoes through December. 4. The biggest mistake, and probably the one I will continue to make every year for my entire life, is trying to do too much with my yard. This year I promised my sweetie that I'd only work on the area around the back patio... but I've already drawn out plans for under the trees, the front bed, and pretty much the entire property. But ya' know something? As long as I'm not repeating my mistakes year after year (with the exception of #4), then I must be learning... * Posted by: mindi1248 z9 FL (My Page) on Mon, Mar 3, 03 at 22:47 This one just happened to me today... I bought some veggie and herb seeds about a week ago (even though I've no idea where to put them) and I decided yesterday that I would get them started in some dixie cups. Labeled and stuck the dirt in the cups, and poked a hole in the bottom to drain, and planted the seeds. I left them outside... This morning it started pouring rain. Turns out that the little holes in the cups couldn't keep up with the flood and when I went outside all the cups were overflowing and soggy and the seeds were floating or on the ground..lol.. I replanted what I could and brought them on the porch..we'll see if they germinate! :) * Posted by: mindi1248 z9 FL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 4, 03 at 14:33 Mistake Number Two: Not using waterproof ink on those dixie cups! I replanted in some real seedling cups today, but now I have no idea what's what! Guess I'll have a surprise when they grow..if they do..lol :) * Posted by: ticksmom419 z7 NC (My Page) on Fri, Mar 7, 03 at 10:30 Somara, in response to your bermudagrass mistake, it only spreads all over your lawn if you don't want it to. I'm tired of fiddling with my sad fescue and WANT the bermudagrass to take over. How many years will it take, do you suppose? Murphy's Law strikes again. * Posted by: ernie50 z7ga (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 7:20 I've been gardening for some years, however still learning. Tried to grow Joe Pye last year from seed, but never came up so couldn't identify seedling. Finally saw a few tiny seedlings & nursed along for 3 months. Was poking around outside & saw same thing growing wild outside. It was a weed!Had somehow got in my seed flat! * Posted by: timtijones z5 Milwaukee WI (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 11:36 Last year was my first year gardening in my first house, so the mistakes were many and frequent. Some of the most important lessons I learned were ... 1. No matter how warm April may be, there's a reason people around here (Milwaukee, WI, zone 5) say don't plant until after Memorial Day. We managed to get some make-shift cold frames around plants both in the beds and not-yet-planted, but we still lost almost a third of the annuals and perennials during a May cold snap. 2. Try to have at least SOME idea where you're going to put that beautiful plant you just saw at the nursery. Lost a few plants that stayed in the pot way too long after purchasing because we didn't have beds ready. 3. EVERYTHING takes at least twice as long to do as you think it will -- digging beds, amending or replacing soil (we have lots of clay, so sometimes we just empty out a big area and refill with garden soil), fertilizing, weeding, pruning (actually, that takes 4 times as long!!). One of these days I'll try to leave time to actually sit out in the yard and ENJOY my gardens, but it didn't happen last year. Maybe if I schedule the time in my DayMinder... 4. Just because it's the north side of the house and shaded in April doesn't mean it's a shade garden. I planted a dozen astilbe and 6 goatsbeard (aruncus) in the front of the house, which is on the north side. The astilbe did OK, but the flowers dried up and turned brown in less than a week, and the poor goatsbeard probably didn't survive ... they grew less than an inch last year from the planting size. That bed gets FULL SUN from May to August! So I'm moving everything that survives the winter to the west side of the house under the shade of the neighbor's black walnut tree. 5. Which brings up the last one ... black walnuts' roots kill most plants planted anywhere near their canopy. Fortunately, astilbe is one of the plants that can survive the black walnut toxins, along with ferns and hostas. Guess what I'll be planting in the west side beds this year!! * Posted by: veilchen z5 S. Maine (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 11:56 One of many: When removing the pachysandra from the front of the house to put in a new shade garden, I discovered what was obviously a small shoot of a rose. My house was built in 1930, so I was excited to have found what may have been an old climbing rose that survived neglected all these years (in the shade!). Just think how hardy it must be! I carefully dug it out, getting all of the long tap root. I pampered it for a few days in a container, keeping it moist. Then I transplanted it around a metal obelisk trellis in a sunny spot in my garden. I gave it lots of compost and water. By the end of the summer, I trained it up the obelisk and it was thriving. I was very proud of my horticultural accomplishment of saving an antique rose and couldn't wait til next year so I could see the blooms. Well, it bloomed last summer. Very plain, single white small blossoms. Totally unexceptional. Japanese beetle magnet as well. What I had transplanted and nurtured was an old root stock of a wild rose. I yanked it out at the end of summer, and it had really anchored itself in. I hope I got it all. * Posted by: John_Blutarsky (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 14:44 Trying to drive 400 miles with a bunch of houseplants in the back of my car. They were exposed to too much sunlight and at the end of the journey their leaves had turned black! Fortunately, none of them died, just took a year to get back to their old selves! Next time, I'll keep them covered up better. * Posted by: clg1 z7 AR (My Page) on Sun, Mar 9, 03 at 20:46 Thanks so much for this thread. I truly thought I was the ONLY one who had ever cultivated, nurtured and sang to rogue blades of grass mistakenly thinking they were long-awaited flower seedlings. * Posted by: teka2rjleffel z10FL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 11, 03 at 15:27 I love this post. I'm not new to gardening. I have been doing it for over 20 years. But when we moved to Florida from New York I made a big boo boo. The house and lawn had been badly neglected. So my husband (who hasn't a gardening clue) and I started pulling up the weeds in the lawn. After we were well into the project our new neighbor came over and asked what we were doing pulling up all of the St. Augustine grass (which looks like a weed but is the only thing that will grow here.) * Posted by: somara z8 - Austin, TX (My Page) on Thu, Mar 13, 03 at 16:56 My Mom and I were talking about what we were going to plant this spring and that brought up the subject of caladium bulbs... this was a BIG mistake from last year so I thought I'd mention it: Do NOT plant the bulbs upside down. Less than half of my caladiums made it. Unfortunately since both ends looked so much alike - this is easy to do. Someone told me later that the easiest way to avoid the same mistake is to plant the bulbs sideways. That way the plant has a better chance of breaking ground before it runs out of steam. * Posted by: Pickwick z5 (My Page) on Thu, Mar 13, 03 at 18:14 The grounds superintendent of a large estate where I worked in the days of my youth, assigned me to plant grass seed in a freshly prepared area. He conveyed to me where I might locate this seed. Evidently, I seemed to have grabbed the wrong bag. It was thistle birdseed........... * Posted by: LesLazz z17CA (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 5:26 Great laughs on this page, literally laughing and holding my side on a couple of them! My story is a bit different but true. Not necessarily, MY stupidest mistake but alas it happened any way. We move in 3 years ago to this house with the previous owner promising that the garden right outside my family room wall (all windows) was a tea garden, that she had worked very hard on. It being February when we bought, she said I couldn't tell until the bulbs came up. So I waited and waited and WAITED... all we had the first year were big weeds. Convincing myself I may had neglected the bulbs, I went out the next January and cleaned all the weeds and religiously watered, once again waiting for the tea garden, which never arrived. I decided to make it a rose and bulb garden, dug all the soil up and proceeded to plant three rose bushes and several different kinds of bulbs in a teagarden type pattern. Well, my hubby came out in January of last year and had a packet of wildflower seeds and decided to spread them throughout my garden (while I was cursing him behind his back, mind you). Fast forward, lots of wildflowers, bulbs grew but no flowers-because the wildflowers took all of the sun/nitrogen/whatever out of the soil (roses seemed to be ok tho). I told him I am going out to take everything out except my bulbs and roses. He asked if I would leave the poppies. I told him I will try (but between you and I , I know what a poppy looks like as opposed to a weed/wildflower) and I guarantee my bulbs will bloom next year! * Posted by: Vroomp z7Ga (My Page) on Sun, Mar 16, 03 at 10:34 What I have learned from my Mistakes: Tradescantia (Spider Wort) blooms in afternoon sun, but the leaves will fry and make the plant look like it's dying. It blooms three times longer in afternoon shade. Foxgloves and Gladiolas need to be in a protected area from wind. Otherwise the become groundcover quickly. Never put an Amaryllis in a pot whose base is larger than the neck. They don't come out without breaking the pot. Inkberry Bushes do not grow on the North side of your home. I lost 6 seven gallon plants. Morning Glories produce a lot of seeds. And they ALL germinate............. For years to come !! Stonecrop Sedums spread like mad under cover of winter leaves. Which happens to be the best way to multiply your Blackeyed Susans too! A Wild Cherry is the wrong tree to leave for shading your patio. In Spring it drops flowers(too tiny to be pretty)then it drops little black fruit(which stains).The insects that thrive in them can dump around 1 pound of poop per night. (that's how much fell on the tarp over the food table last party). Glad I had the forethought to put it up !!! Then in the Fall the twigs and leaves seem to never end. * Posted by: ladykemma katy, texas (My Page) on Tue, Mar 18, 03 at 22:34 pulling up the foxglove seedlings because i thought they were weeds..... * Posted by: Lynn9 z9,Northern Ca. (My Page) on Thu, Mar 20, 03 at 23:25 HA! I think the "pet" poison oak is the funniest one. My mistake this year was building a nice frame for a raised box-bed, filling it in & then realizing it is in the wrong spot! My second mistake was buying all that "organic" compost/potting soil that was on sale & *then* reading the ingredients. It's organic with a "wetting agent" added. It carries a warning "as in all soil, gloves should be worn before handling this product". I don't dare use the stuff & lost the receipt. * Posted by: Adina Zone 7, Atl GA (My Page) on Fri, Mar 21, 03 at 15:55 This wasn't a big mistake, but only because I'm a biological fluke. Several years ago, back when I lived in an apartment that didn't even have enough light for houseplants, I "adopted" the vacant lot next to my father's house and started cleaning it up a bit and planting some excesses from his garden. One day he came out while I was pulling weeds, pointed to the plant in my bare hand, and asked if I realized it was poison ivy. I didn't. My hands turned pinkish and itched a little for an hour or so later. I had never learned to identify poison ivy because I've never reacted to it. Still don't. Ivy--regular English Ivy--makes me itch and break out in red blotches, however. Go figure. * Posted by: GaiaChild N.Alberta,Can. (My Page) on Sun, Mar 23, 03 at 2:16 I agree that this is a great thread! I can relate to some of these mistakes and I'll try to learn from the rest :o) I've had small veggie gardens and have experience with indoor plants but last year was my first real flower/ornamental gardening attempt. This year I've planned even more so I'm glad I can come here for some good tips. TIA *thanks in advance* * Posted by: Holedigger z10 SO-CAL (My Page) on Tue, Mar 25, 03 at 15:38 All time dumbest.....designed a complete backyard courtyard with stamped concrete patios, flagstone walks, rip-rap planting beds, lighting, stucco walls, the works. Had it all installed, planted it and realized I had no way of getting irrigation to the planters, or onto the groundcover between the flagstone. Duh.I learned all about native plants and xeriscaping after trying to handwater (twice a day) the first summer. Everything fried. * Posted by: jslatch z8 Austin, TX (My Page) on Wed, Mar 26, 03 at 17:52 Yeah, ok... as a new gardener with a new house, I should probably have researched tulips before putting a delicate 12 bulbs in my 10'x6' bed. Having lived in Washington DC, where every spring the city is covered in gorgeous, prolific tulips, I had assumed that they would bloom and bloom and be this beautiful carpet of red tulips in the middle of my yard. Little did I know that in DC, there are countless men paid by the city to run around in the pre-dawn hours transplanting fully grown tulips for the spring tourists. Needless to say, I got a week and a half of pretty blooms, and then nothing. Ugly green flowerless stalks. What is that about? Who knew that tulips only bloom once and don't multiply? I guess everyone but me. So then I tried to repair my sad-looking bed with eight expensive ranunculus transplants, which looked great for a week. Now they are fading fast, leaving me once again with tired stalks. Sigh. I have now optimistically sprinkled the entire thing with cosmos seeds. Too bad they won't be up in time for my mother's visit... I was so excited to show off my green thumb. I have a feeling I will have many more lessons coming to me... * Posted by: Dic_Tamnus z5b OH (My Page) on Thu, Mar 27, 03 at 10:12 I had a "Three Stooges" moment while walking out to the garden. The side door of my house had a metal awning (sharp edges) that hung exactly 6' above ground level. As I (height 6'1") walked toward it I was verrrry carefully trying to take a sip from a cup of scalding hot coffee. In mid-slurp my scalp met the metal, raking across my skull like a hoe raking across concrete. From pain and surprise, I gasped, inhaling the burning brew. It sounded something like "Scrrrapeaacghgarglekoffplttttt!" So I spent the next ten seconds staggering, bent at the waist, one hand on top of my head and the other wiping coffee that was still running from my nose. My only regret is that I didn't catch the whole thing on video. * Posted by: Tannatonk z3 MT (My Page) on Thu, Mar 27, 03 at 15:08 This is a great thread! I don't have a tale to tell on myself but would like to make a suggestion. Seems like a lot of you have in the past purchased too many plants at one time without having given thought to how or where you were going to put them. The next project on your "honey-do" list should be to build a nursery bed. It could be as big or small as you like but a nice size is 4' x 8' with 6-12" sidewalls. Fill the frame with loose compost and soil. Now you have a place to store all those wonderful finds that you just can't pass up until you know the perfect spot for it. * Posted by: carolynkelsea San Jose (My Page) on Fri, Mar 28, 03 at 12:33 Wow this thread has been around since last year and it keeps getting funnier! I already posted once (transplanting large shrubs in a heat wave) but in my second year of gardening I've made an even sillier mistake... When we moved in I discovered two unidentified bushes hidden beneath some overgrown daisy clumps... For whatever reason I decided they were azaleas and I've been babying them for a year, giving them acid fertilizer, doing everything I could to make them happy... Well just the other day they finally bloomed, and oops, they're not azaleas, they're hawthorn bushes, which is a very common, tough shrub around here, they use it in parking lots because you just can't kill it... After a year of babying these things I feel a little let down! (The pink flowers are pretty though!) *Posted by Cactus_joe 7b (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 1:50 Stupid things that I learned while gardening this year: 1. If you plant a canna tuber right at the bottom of the container, and place it upside down, the canes will emerge through the drainage holes. A real talking point in the garden (?Did I hear words like "stupid thing to do", "how silly", "what was he thinking of", ""senilility", etc being whispered?). Doesn't do much for esthetics either. 2. If you pull a long cane of a prickly rose down too far, and let go, it will neatly grab hold of you pants and tee-shirt, and give you a painful surprise. 3. If you get real mad at how much rocks you have to excavate out of your lousy subsoil before you can plant any thing, make sure your shovel is equipped with shock absorbers before you ram it hard into the ground in frustration. Otherwise, the shock wave generated when you hit that big rock (the one which is always lying waiting for you to do just such a stupid act) will give your bones a jangle that you will never forget. 4. If you go on vacation and have the neighbour tend your yard while you are away, don't forget to tell her not to dead head the roses if you are into hybridising. 5. Never even think of pulling the stun of stepping smartly on the head of the garden rack to get it's handle to flip up - unless you happened to be wearing a suit of armour. * Posted by: NGraham z6 KY (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 8:08 I can sympathize. I've experienced much the same things. Once when my husband had back surgery, I didn't ask, but my neighbor kindly mowed my yard for me. Took out a white lilac a friend had just given me, it did come back but sulked for a long time. Several times I coulda kicked myself when I nurture seedlings I have carefully grown & cared for, plant them out, then carelessly pull them out when weeding. * Posted by: FlowrPowr 5 OH (My Page) on Sun, Dec 12, 04 at 22:10 Joe, the one about the rake really made me chuckle. We were planting some end of season roses about a month ago, and I did that very same thing. It was not one of my more graceful moves. Let me tell you, a rake upside the head, can really hurt. I saw stars for a couple of seconds. Of course, my hubby thought it was funny. I guess one thing that I did that was kind of stupid was loose one of those little hand held garden cultivators. It was an older tool, and just kind of blended in with the soil. I sat it down, and when I went to pick it up, I couldn't find it. My hubby found it when we were doing the fall cleenup. I think I am going to paint the handle day-glo orange, so it doesn't get lost in the perennial jungle again! * Posted by: EGO45 6bCT (My Page) on Mon, Dec 13, 04 at 0:52

Another one-- ...When you attend a professional meeting, and, instead of trading business cards with the other attendees, you talk gardening and composting, and get an offer of leaves from someone who has a great big oak tree in her yard! * Posted by: kdbern Georgia (My Page) on Sun, Feb 9, 03 at 21:54 I can't believe my luck today! I have spent 8 hours mulching and raking leaves to bring home from a friend?s house on a beautiful sunny day, then I find this link and have had the best time reading it. I had even asked my hubby today to pee on the compost and he said I was crazy! I feel like this was such a wonderful day, I can't think of any other way I would have liked to spend it and this definitely was the best way to end it. * Posted by: roselust z10, so cal (My Page) on Sun, Feb 9, 03 at 22:11 ...when you find yourself seated in a chair with a glass of chardonnay in one hand and using the other to hand-pick earthworms from your compost pile during a beautiful sunset, knowing life cant get any better. * Posted by: Okanagan z5-6 BC (My Page) on Mon, Feb 10, 03 at 15:32 Oh I'm glad I found this web site. I thought I was the only wacko who turned the compost for peace of mind, always curious to find out what is going on in there, scavenging compostables everywhere, including the clippings from haircuts and cat-combing, and the dirty dishwater. Now if I can reroute the greywater... A number of people IRL call me "the compost lady" ... but that is not going to distinguish me here, is it? :) ...when your favourite book is "Compost This Book". * Posted by Mountainsong z7b GA (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 11:51 I am going into withdrawal from the compost wacko thread! I tend to be way too serious, so when I first found the thread this fall, and sat there on Saturday mornings reading it and laughing out loud, my family was amazed! Now, stress from my job is reaching epic proportions, and I NEED to connect to other wackos! Where are you? (You know you're a compost wacko if you look for the thread on Saturday morning and are forlorn when you can't find it!) * Posted by: TXDana z8TX (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 12:57 I've been wondering where they were, too! Then I remembered that I consider myself a CW. A few days ago my husband and I drove to a friend of my husband's house. This was the first time I had been to his house and the first time I had met him. Normal people greet people with "hello, how are you?" type of comments. Not this compost wacko! He said "hello" to me, and I responded with "I wish I had brought a bucket so I could have taken some of your horse manure". My husband just sighed and shook his head. He really thinks I'm a nut. Did I help your withdrawal? * Posted by: Mountainsong z7b GA (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 13:54 Dana, thanks for your compassion! I'm going to seek further therapy by checking out the new worm farm to see if any of our 10 cocoons have hatched yet (yes, I counted them, but they were in a large yogurt container at the time, so that's not too weird, right?) Vermiculturists are kindred spirits! :0) * Posted by: Demeter z6 NJ (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 14:34 Alas, with a forum as active as this one, if a thread has not been posted to for more than a month and a half or so, it vanishes off the bottom of the list ... and the wacko threads are so popular that they rapidly reached the 100 post limit and then naturally passed into oblivion. Sooooo..... somebody start a new "You Know You're A Compost Wacko" thread! * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 16:05 ...you know you're a compost wacko when you're standing with a group of people who know you are a cw, except for one person and when that person sez something even remotely related to compost EVERYONE looks right at YOU! * Posted by: thorspippi z9 Sac CA (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 16:51 I'm not yet even a certified CW and they're already doing that.... simply because I'm now spinning & weaving my dog's hair! Therefore, I must be some kind of Generic Nature Wacko (GNW). Hey, he is a LONG HAIR german shepherd and he's 100 lbs... that's a LOT OF HAIR. My worms simply couldn't handle all that hair. * Posted by: zabby17 z5a Canada (My Page) on Sat, Feb 7, 04 at 22:50 ... when your dog gets excited if you pick up the kitchen compost bucket. (Not, alas, because she's particularly interested in recycling or gardening, but because she knows her nightly pee outing to the back yard happens when Zabby's ready to take the scraps out to the composter... [hey, I'm not going out there TWICE on one of these cold nights!]) * Posted by: Bostonian z6 MA (My Page) on Sun, Feb 8, 04 at 9:27 The women in the H.S. Cafeteria where I work save me the coffee grounds and veggie scraps. The maintenance men roam through the kitchen picking up the cardboard boxes and sometimes find my scraps and throw them out! Now the women are like no, that?s Kathy?s. Then they give me a look like ?We don?t understand you but we once again protected your trash" * Posted by: PaulNS NS zone 6a (My Page) on Sun, Feb 8, 04 at 10:56 It's late fall. You get on your jacket to go out and empty the compost bucket onto the pile and take its temperature. Then you reconsider and put on a warmer jacket and gloves, so that the experience will be leisurely instead of rushed. * Posted by: plumeria50 z9CA (My Page) on Sun, Feb 8, 04 at 12:43 ...you know you're a compost wacko when you have to wait for night fall to sneak into the front yard to dig a very big hole to put some gross, refrigerator dead stuff in...hoping the neighbors arent going to walk by any time soon. * Posted by: JCin_Los_Angeles z10, Sunset 22, (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 0:29 ...when your DH comes back from the car wash very embarrassed about the horse manure that had slipped out of the box on the way home from the stable. There were horse turds in plain sight and everyone saw them, and he can't see why we had to use HIS car. (Because he has a hatchback and we had to fit the bale of straw in there too.) He complains about having a compost wacko for a wife but doesn't complain at all about the fruits and vegetables! * Posted by: Clare z6 MO (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 10:44 ...when you feel like you've hit the jackpot upon seeing that someone abandoned a bale of straw on the K-Mart parking lot and you get to put it in your trunk and bring it home. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 11:43 Two things I did or plan on doing is; I over heard a woman that I know at church talk to a little girl about coming over to feed her horses. I asked, Hey, do you have any horse poop I can have?" She said, "Oh, do we, my husband would be very glad to get rid of some." She lives close by, so I just need my pick up truck and persuade my 18 year old son that he wants to help me, since we are paying for his first credit card boo boos. Also, when I take my 12 year old son to school a few times, I notice a bale of hay on the roadside in front of their house, I don't know if it is for the garbage man to take or what, but their garbage was out and the bale is still there. So I will check it out later to see if they pick up the bale of hay or straw. I was in my PJ's at the time, so I wasn't going to ring their door bell. Also, I go out in the dark or with my coat on over my PJ's and at night dump out shredded paper, etc. on certain areas of my yard that needs it. * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD/ professor dirt (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 12:05 ...you drive by three bale's of straw left over from construction (used as a silt block over the storm drains a year ago) sitting in the middle of Georgia Ave near Whites hardware and you lust for them and are just waiting for the right time to snatch them (before they wash INTO the repaired storm drains and cause a "construction repeat".) Perhaps tommorow. It all leads back to compost! * Posted by: maryann12 7 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 9, 04 at 17:24 You know you are becoming a wacko?.. When your brother and his wife visit from out of state (they have a compost pile), you don't worry about how your house looks, you worry about how your compost pile looks. * Posted by: Harimad zone 7 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 11, 04 at 10:03 You know you're a compost wacko when... ... even though you detest coffee, you consider working at Starbucks for easy access to its trash. You know you're a compost wacko when... ... the weekly pound of coffee goes straight to the garden, never seeing the inside of your kitchen. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Wed, Feb 11, 04 at 11:02 ...you know you have become one, when you slyly walk over to check out your neighbor's garbage and her recycle bin. Bonanza! The blue bin is full of newspaper. I checked a dog food bag, hoping to see some newspaper waste from her big parrots. I didn't dare lift the lids to the other garbage cans. But I did rake up the leaves on her property next to mine where we share a mutual irrigation ditch plus all the wonderful rotting maple leaves in the ditch. I built a compost bin nearby with builder's block from my FIL's old milk house built in 1929. We have a bunch more to collect from eastern Idaho. Lined it with a some newspaper, then a wet phone book someone threw into our trash can next to our shop doors and also a bag full of apples! Must have been my eldest son or my hubby. I couldn't believe my find. My 12 year old saves the phone books for his BSA camp outs. Good to start a fire with LOL So I guess he missed out on this one. WE get extra phone books from our neighbors who passes them out in the fall. One thing my son did was have the nerve to take one of the blocks from my compost bin to place under his snowmobile trailer's tongue when he got back. I did go out later at night to get the dog food bag and some more newspaper. Then in the morning, I could have gotten more newspaper, but didn't dare. I think the recycle people would be disappointed. Now I'm just going to ask her if I can collect her used paper. The dog food bag was a bust. Oh, well. * Posted by: snowgardener z4 NY (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 04 at 14:35 ...you know you're a compost wacko when you make your kids bring home their banana peels, orange peels, apple cores, etc. from their school lunches. * Posted by: Mountainsong z7b GA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 04 at 22:26 ...you know you're a compost wacko when your 8-year-old daughter shows definite signs of indoctrination: upon arriving at Starbuck's, she hurries straight past the plate of amazing chocolate chunk cookies to the "Free Coffee Grounds" basket, and returns announcing gleefully: "There are 7 bags of coffee grounds. Seven!" ... when you're embarrassed that your neighbor returning home at 8:30 p.m. will catch you in the headlights, and see that you are dumping your latest Starbucks cache onto one of the front yard's lasagna beds in the pitch dark. You are not, however, embarrassed enough to stop your chore, and dump three more bags on the bed before calling it a night. * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD/professor dirt (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 04 at 23:04 ...you think about piles (bins/tumbler loads/whateva) you've had in the past and remember them fondly like some people remember baseball games they've attended or first (second or third) dates they've had. ialbtc * Posted by: TeresaInCAL 9 California ) on Fri, Feb 13, 04 at 17:04 Hey, I thought I was the only one who thought about getting a job at Starbucks, JUST for the coffee grounds...LOL I've also considered buying cheep coffee (on sale) JUST for the compost pile... * Posted by: Linda_8B (My Page) on Fri, Feb 13, 04 at 17:43 Ha! I actually considered a part-time job at a local grocery store, just for the compost materials. Later I found out that they're so strict about not giving out the veggie and fruit waste that any employee giving any away to customers or taking any home can be fired. The dumpsters are those large closed systems, so can't even raid them. What a world we live in! * Posted by: Storygardener 5/6 central oh (My Page) on Fri, Feb 13, 04 at 17:54 I guess I am a compost wacko too...yes, whenever I watch the cooking shows on TV I am just as interested in the scraps of veggies, peels , etc -as I am interested in the finished dish. * Posted by: Alfie_MD6 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 14, 04 at 8:00 ...you embarrass your sister-in-law by waiting until everyone is looking the other way and then whipping out the plastic bags you somehow always seem to have in your bookbag and packing up the amazing quantity of ordered, paid for, and uneaten food the playgroup that just went away left for the café to throw out. (Actually, she was quite understanding; it's just that her particular anti-waste thing is the amount of packaging everything comes in.) ...you ignore all of the plants at the twice-yearly plant swap just so that you can go talk to Professor Dirt about how he gets to compost for a living. * Posted by: Byron 4a/5b NH (My Page) on Sat, Feb 14, 04 at 14:16 Just spotted a new farm up the street (about 2 country miles) That now has chickens, sheep and cows The cow pile has about 3 pick up loads already :-) * Posted by: ryanzone7 z7MD/professor dirt (My Page) on Sun, Feb 15, 04 at 5:19 I miss my windrow turner, I all have now to turn my "big" piles is a farm tractor, and for the task at hand it's like using a shovel to sweep the side walk, it can do it but ......... How's that for being a compost wacko? * Posted by: catfromtex 9 - Sunny So Cal (My Page) on Sun, Feb 15, 04 at 11:50 ...you know you're a wacko when you've accepted a new job w/great $$ and benefits and the part you?re excited about is having access to the muck from your new employer's horse stables. * Posted by: maryslc z5-6 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 0:10 ...you REALLY know you're a compost wacko when a a co-worker says they haven't been able to bring themselves to spread a family members cremains.............and you eagerly offer to take care of it for them. * Posted by: squeeze z8 BC (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 0:40 they know you're wacky at the stable where you're picking up a truckload of horse biscuits, when they say "can you take this bale of moldy hay?" and you say "yes, PLEASE!!" - and they do look at you funny, when you say "thank you very much!" * Posted by: veilchen 5b s. Maine (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 8:02 That before you even saw this thread, you reminded yourself this morning to check the weather report on the computer before you log off, to see if there is going to be a thaw anytime soon so you can try to turn your compost pile. * Posted by: thorspippi z9 Sac CA (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 14:04 ...when your husband offers to start up a newspaper subscription because you've been bugging him to put his office papers in a separate box so you can shred it. (I told him NO that defeats the whole point!) * Posted by: cherylm z5ma (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 04 at 23:24 when you're accumulating a plastic storage boxful in the basement- coffee grounds, fruit and veg peels, a little shredded newspaper and a dab of old potting soil- no smell! and if it ever gets warm enough and melts some snow, i might get it to the real pile! * Posted by: plumeria50 z9CA (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 4:33 You know you're a compost wacko when you are eyeing the neighbors? pumpkins on display for Halloween and wondering how you are going to slyly get some of those pumpkins for your compost heap. Also, how you are going to pick up several on the curb before the garbage trucks come for them...without the neighbors seeing you. * Posted by: Harimad zone 7 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 11:09 If you're worried about the neighbors seeing you, you may still be wacko-in-training. When you don't care, then you're definitely a wacko. If your neighbors give it to you or put it in your pile instead of in the trash can, then you're a prophet (ie, wacko with following). * Posted by: organic_johnny z6b PA (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 11:57 When you send your teenage son out for leaf bags...(which my mom did to me...I'm a 2nd gen cw). * Posted by: PaulNS NS zone 6a (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 12:34 When you create a 4'x4'x4' pile of crab waste and sawdust compost in a hurry, not mixing the materials enough or using enough sawdust, so that your good intentions turn into a Raging Pile of Stink which drifts clear over to the neighbours' place and lies down heavily on them during a heat wave and they are good neighbours so they only mention it politely after putting up with it for three days and you do everything within your power to muffle the smell including shovelling garden soil on top and surrounding the pile with bales of straw, to no avail, and all the while you're secretly and gleefully gloating over the big pile of rot in your yard which, really, objectively speaking, any normal person would consider smells fascinating. * Posted by: Storygardener 5/6 central oh (My Page) on Wed, Feb 18, 04 at 12:52 ....when at the garden club meeting last night I took all the plant litter from the demonstration and put it in my coat pocket for my compost pile. * Posted by: Nelz z5b/6 NW PA (My Page) on Thu, Feb 19, 04 at 23:49 Your wife mentions horse and pony for herself and daughter, and all you can picture is a pitchfork, a wheel barrow, and a dirty stall, and you smile LARGE!! * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Fri, Feb 20, 04 at 13:58 You are a wacko when....you go to your son's high school for a ski trip meeting and notice the little tractor and flatbed trailer full of bags and pizza boxes! I just grab 2 boxes on our way out, and I think one had spit on it from a student from the above corridor. This was around 7:45PM and dark. Also, the next door neighbor that I took some newspaper from her bin comes over to where I'm adding to the compost bin and I'm in my pj's, coat and NEW BLUE RUBBER BOOTS and asks, "What do I have there?" I told her what I was up to and told her I was raking up the leaves in the ditch, clearing up the grass, etc. She said I could have all the leaves I want and I asked about the newspaper and she said she'll just leave the bin by my compost bin. Cool, huh? ;-) Also, when hubby comes home from Nevada after cleaning casinos and brings me two packets of coffee that will make 4 cups. LOL Not quite the garbage bag full of Starbuck's coffee grounds, but I'm sure it will make a nice tea! I still don't have him "dumpster diving" at the restaurants he takes care of for greens or coffee grounds etc. He says it is very messy! Hah! * Posted by: bakemom z6 Ohio (My Page) on Sat, Feb 21, 04 at 0:05 Beverly - You're HERE! I just hopped over to check out a lasagna thread and here you are. Will you be full of instruction at the swap? I'm just chucking stuff here and there and throwing in a bit of shredded paper work. I don't know what I'm doing but things seem to grow better. Help! I'm a winter sowing junkie and thinking this is right up my alley. * Posted by: Storygardener 5/6 central oh (My Page) on Sat, Feb 21, 04 at 7:24 Hi Bakemom!! Well, I have been composting for nearly two years. Most of what I know - came from this forum. I just keep reading all the time and learning! I have done one lasagna garden. It's a veggie garden that I 'layered up' year and a half ago. I have the book if you want to borrow it. ....Beverly * Posted by: PaulNS NS zone 6a (My Page) on Sat, Feb 21, 04 at 12:48 Karalyn, Queen of the Wackos, composting student spit :) A snowstorm drops 90 cm/3 feet of snow on your area and the compost pile is 30m/100 feet from the house so you toss your kitchen scraps on the snow outside the front door and tell yourself you're sheet composting. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Sun, Feb 22, 04 at 11:21 Paul, I love it! Tossing your scraps out the door. I do that with banana peelings outside my front door where the rose bushes are and the clematis plants. I understand they like the potassium in them. But now that I've come to this forum, I snip them in itty bitty pieces into an ice cream pail while listening to Dr. Phil, Montel, or Oprah. I'm behind you guys in my composting and need to speed things up! ;-) BTW, there were a lot more pizza boxes but I know DS wouldn't be interested in helping me nor waiting. But now I know another goldmine, the SCHOOL! * Posted by: Nelz z5b/6 NW PA (My Page) on Mon, Feb 23, 04 at 1:05 I have so many (currently 9) coffee ground buckets out (grocery store cafe's, teacher break rooms, church kitchen, etc.) that I need a list to keep track of emptying them. Plus I put my phone number on the lids so someone calls me when it's near full. BTW, most places have appropriate sized buckets so pick-ups can be done at the same time, yet I still have full buckets to pick-up, and I am not taking up extra space under their counter. This spring I hope to get others to start taking those grounds (will replace phone number lids with blank ones) so I can quit the circuit pick-up, now that I have starbucks on the hook for quite a bit 1 or 2x a week. * Posted by: flora_uk SW UK 8/9 (My Page) on Wed, Feb 25, 04 at 8:57 YKYACWW .... you hear a wail from the living room. Your daughter has just puked up on the carpet. You eye it up. Not toooo sloppy. Grab a piece of cardboard, scoop and run down the garden to the pile. Mission accomplished, you come back and start to mop up daughter. Got to get your priorities right. * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Wed, Feb 25, 04 at 16:35 FLora-ROTFL! * Posted by: Karalyn Z6 W. Boise (My Page) on Sun, Mar 7, 04 at 11:26 I scored the other day! I was going to a school meeting for my 12 year old, went through the fancy new neighborhood and saw the grounds workers cutting down tree branches and all the grasses (ornamental) and they were put in piles on the lawn later to be picked up. I made a mental note to go back and ask about the grasses. I took a different route home, but made a quick left turn into the subdivision. I asked the first guy, they are from Mexico and don't speak much English, but enough to direct me to the boss. He said fine and I offered my club wagon to put the grass into. They said "No, they wouldn't fit." I have all my bench seats in it. (I loved how they talked amongst themselves in spanish to decide about taking them to where I live which is behind the new subdivision) They actually loaded all the cut grasses and raked up leaves and put them in their truck and took them to my house and unloaded them for me. I wasn't expecting such service. They said they would just dump them anyway. So, I scored big time in the goal of getting other people's mulch and having it delivered. Where is that thread anyway?! I told them they can dump more of their grasses. They weren't done with this big subdivision and they also mow the shared grassy area and little parks. So I told them feel free to dump the grass too! When the grass gets long enough to mow. Plus I got the main guy's card to have him do some pruning and other stuff for me. I think the crew was amazed that this blonde haired lady, driving a ford clubwagon was willing to load it up with all the tall grasses! Let alone talk to them, as some people in this manicured area probably wouldn't bother speaking to them. Okay, is the yellow ornamental grass considered a brown or green? * Posted by: sylviatexas z8 Tx (My Page) on Mon, Mar 8, 04 at 17:15 One day I was to meet friends for a drink after work. I got there early, &, being a naturally shy & bashful person, I sat at the bar & talked to the bartender about my enthusiasm for Starbucks coffee grounds, other people's leaves, etc. Gary was the first to arrive. Gary's a hoot. He's one of those people who's always sanitizing their hands & spritzing the kitchen counter with anti-bacterial stuff. He sat down next to me just as the bartender said, "I just finished making myself a pitcher of tea. Would you like the teabag?" & I said *yes*! Of course! Thank you very much! So she put it in a sandwich bag for me. Gary eyed it & shuddered. The bartender, seeing his reaction, looked at him speculatively & said, "We roasted some peanuts in the shells earlier today for happy hour. Would you like the shells?" So she & I scooped peanut shells into my sandwich baggie as Gary made faces & shuddered. * Posted by: antic_zone9 z9FL (My Page) on Mon, Mar 15, 04 at 20:13 You know you're a compost wacko (or a wannabe) when: ...you take morning walks on trashday, pretending to be exercising, when you're really scouting the free bags of leaves. ...you walk the same route again, this time with the dog, in order not to arouse suspicion because you want to snag a beautiful closet door that will make a perfect wormbin (because of it's louvers). :) ...you don't worry about working out in a gym because you get your upper body workout by forking and turning your garbagecan compost bin. :) ...your DW is actually proud of you because of your commitment to something worthwhile (although you know she wonders about your sanity sometimes!) ;) ...you're ticked off that you can't compost plastic, because it won't break down within your lifetime, but you are happy that you are composting 60% of your garbage! ...you read composting books in the restroom and wonder if the DW would EVER let you have a composting toilet in the next house. (even if it was YOU that maintained it!) ...you subconsciously thank all of those hard-working neighbors who painstakingly rake up all of their leaves so you can steal their bags the next morning! ;) ...(this has been said before, but what the heck!) You wonder if the next occupants of the house will take advantage of the fresh composted soil for gardening that the previous owner had spent years transforming from a sandtrap. ...you think about all the OGM that is wasted daily and sleep very well that night knowing that you are doing your small part to hug the earth. * Posted by: maryslc z5-6 (My Page) on Fri, Mar 26, 04 at 23:31

I live in Jacksonville zone 9A, only a few miles southeast of the 8b border. I have an orange tree and a ruby red grapefruit tree that have both survived 9 degree nights (I checked the weather records, the trees are at least 25 years old, so I was able to look up the lowest temps they'd been exposed to.) Most winters we will drop into the mid 20's to upper 20's for at least a week at night, with an occasional drop into the teens that happens once every few years. My neighbor has a tree of a similar age, it is a swingle citrumelo now because the scion froze and only the rootstock survived. The reason why my trees are alive is because they are on their own roots. They are not grafted, someone grew them from a seed. When the tree is ungrafted, unless the earth the roots are in freezes solid, they will come back from the roots even if everything above ground is killed off. I would recommend experimenting with rooted cuttings of anything you'd like. Seeds may be better, I think you'll be more likely to find something that can live on its own, but they will not fruit for 5-10 years, so it depends on your patience. I think just fruits and exotics sells certain types of citrus ungrafted, they sold me a variegated eureka lemon and said those worked better with no rootstock. Many of your plants will die due to the soil conditions on your property. Those that can tolerate your soil should be planted on the south side of your house, and frame protected when young. When they get too big for that, just watering them well before a freeze should save them 95% of the time. The difficult part will be finding something that can grow in your soil with no graft. Once you do, the cold is much less of a problem than for a grafted tree. One warning-- most citrus is dwarfed by the rootstock, my ungrafted grapefruit is 25 feet tall and about 15 feet wide. Think about space considerations and the eventual spread of the canopy and roots when planting close to your house, as citrus roots can be invasive.