One more thing. I like character over the formal look.

Here is an example

Here is a link that might be useful: Tree I like

I am sure someone here will have suggestions for you - I don't have enough conifer knowledge to assist, but just wanted to comment that your link doesn't work for me. :-(

(I always like to look at the pretty pictures, so I am disappointed!)

Holly

Dunno if that fixes the link...

Here is a link that might be useful: Link?

Thanks for the info on the link and here are some pictures, some not so pretty LOL for your viewing pleasure.

Yard when we bought the house Summer 08'
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Yard after a lot of work March 10' (same view as pic above)
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I want to put the conifer and/or conifers in the back left corner. I was actually just thinking about maybe putting two or three very different types (shapes, sizes and heights) in the back corner. I don't know though, I am very good at gardening and yard work but know very little about conifers.

The yard looks a little different now since there is now a large bamboo patch and the weeping willow.

I am very good at gardening and yard work

Certainly are, great before and after! Is the WW in the central spot? I love them and they do give good winter colour. Room for lots and lots of conifers...

Well, an easy suggestion is Pinus flexilis 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid'. This large, fast growing silvery-blue pine should grow very well in your area and also should be something you can find at a reasonably price/size.

I paid $30 for a 3'+ tall specimen here in the Pacific Northwest. It's a beauty of a tree.

The only thing is it might not be as 'open' as you'd prefer, though with pines, often some pruning really helps their appearance and you could probably achieve the shape you'd like this way.

My young specimen.
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-Will

Severnside, the WW is planted just off center to the left. And to the right there is now an island (about 500 square feet) that has PH. Nigra and PH. Decora bamboo planted. The gate in the center of the back fence enters our garden and has two long stem roses on either side. I am planning on taking some updated photos once everything starts growing this year.

Firefightergardener, I do love the Vanderwulf's. It has the needles I really like. HD has some right now about 8 feet tall for $65.00. Not a bad price for that size.

I hadn't thought of pruning it get the shape and look I want. That is surly an option. How do conifers handle trimming?

First, I forgot to mention, you do INDEED have a home/garden touch. Your before/after pictures are magazine worthy. Great work, you should be very proud.

How do conifers handle trimming? Depends on the conifer. Some hate it, most are tollerant of 'shearing' but pines in particular do better with some pruning then most. Some pines are dense and these generally shouldn't be pruned much except to reduce growth(candle pinching) but the airy, faster growing pines, especially those with unique or interesting bark/structure, most definitely benefit from some shaping/pruning. You'll want to read up on the best way to do so but this is a very common practice by advanced gardeners.

That price is outstanding too by the way, there shouldn't be too much hesitation *unless* the pots are tiny in which case the roots are probably pretty sad and this will slow the tree down quite a bit or potentially even kill it long-term.

-Will

Thanks Will! It was hard work. But honestly when we bought the house and I saw the yard I thought to myself "it's a beautiful blank slate I can do ANYTHING with". My husband didn't share my enthusiasm but he has been a good sport and was able to drive the tractor with the box blade. LOL

I am thinking of buying one of the Vanderwulf's. But I am also thinking it might look nice to put another different conifer close to it. Something with a different color and needle so they accent each other.

If I plant two different conifers that are about 4-6 feet tall but will both end up having about a 20 foot spread, how close can I plant them to each other? Should I give them a full 20 feet or can I plant them closer, like maybe 10 feet apart?

Also, can you think of another conifer that would accent the Vanderwulf nicely.

Thanks again for all the help!

You're welcome. Certainly you can put a different conifer next to it, and depending on your tollerance to crowding it can be planted at a distance between 5 to 15 feet away. I'd *surely* plant mine five feet to the closest plants, but as many people here are aware of, I am aggressive with my spacing, often precipitating moving plants later and potentially *removing* plants in 5-10 years. 10 feet from the base of another plant seems like a fair distance.

If I were to suggest a conifer to companion with it, it would be Pinus thunbergiana 'Thunderhead'. Readily available, it's a bit slower grower, maybe 5-10" a year at peak growth, the deepest dark green with outstanding form(as wide as tall often), and in Spring the new candles are a bright white color, the trait for which it is named.

I *think* it will survive your climate though you'll want to check. Both your hot summers and cold winters might give it a hard time.

My young specimen.
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It should be relatively easy to find at any quality nursery of substantial size.

-Will

I like the limber pine idea. P. strobiformis might also be a close match for your criteria. And I'll just throw this out there, for character, a weeping arizona cypress.

Vanderwolfs have reached a fairly heavy saturation point now for me. They are everywhere. It's like Bradford Pears 10-20 years ago. It's not a bad thing, but I just like to have something a slightly different so I would suggest maybe go with P f 'Extra Blue' to get deeper coloration. Then you can play off of it with something in bright colors like yellows, reds or silvers.

mark

nice name .... whats that all about.. lol ...

you arent a new signup.. but i havent seen the name before.. so WELCOME ...

first.. the link.. INTRO TO CONIFERS ... best place to start .. the key there is ANNUAL GROWTH RATES ... as trees .. conifers have very predictable annual growth rates ONCE established ... MOST SIZE ESTIMATES ARE AT 10 YEARS ...

so if it grows one foot per year.. it will be 10 feet at 10 years.. and most likely 20 at 20 years ... etc ... and being trees.. most will grow at that rate.. for the rest of your life ...

regardless of potential... i am of the mind.. that you plant things that curl your toes [will's toes must be curled all the time.. wonder how he gets around.. lol ].. and if and when they get too big.. GET RID OF THEM .... instead of fixating on plants that 'fit' ....

BTW .. your OP .. 50 feet from what willow???? .. that yard is not big enough for a willow.. nor will you have an easy time gardening under a willow in a decade or two ...

anyway ... there are many websites that have a wealth of pictures for you to peruse .... and you should spend a lot of time looking thru them.. and when you find your toes curling.. then bring the name back here ... and we can help define whether it is appropriate for you fact scenario ...

of my 500 conifer collection.. i would say that half came mail order.. and that is most likely the only way you will get anything out of the ordinary ... unless you are willing to do car trips to OR ...

well the coffee is kicking in.. and i am loosing focus ... lol ...

oh .. how would i start ???? defining bed creation .... kids??? will there be a big grassy area?? ... then getting rid of that giant green grass rectangle .... softening the fence line and corners with flowing bed lines .... etc ...

there are two planting season for trees/conifers.. early spring.. and late fall ... so if you cant get too much done this spring regarding actual planting.. then start planning for the fall ... we do NOT plant trees in the heat of summer ... if we have them in pots.. we leave them in the pots.. in the shade.. until the next proper planting time ...

somewhere down the pages of posts.. i had an old post about bed development ... and there are many posts.. especially of wills.. with tons of pics ... take the time to peruse them ...

gotta run

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link to intro

Pinus contorta 'Taylor's Sunburst' would do a great job there.
6 full weeks of golden yellow over green. Ideal for your climate. 'Extra Blue' Pinus flexilis get's an equal vote from me. 'Vanderwolf's Pyramid' believe it or not at 40-60' have trunks/branches splaying off in every direction and is a very thumb-sore tree.

Dax

Wow Ken, you are very energetic! LOL

Thanks for the welcome. My name, well my nickname has always been pecan, but that was taken, so pcan it is.

I have been a member for a while but spend most of my time on the Bamboo, Utah and Tropicalesque forums.

The green area of the yard shown in the picture is 60 ft x 120 ft.

The fenced in area behind the green area (the garden) measures 60 ft x 35 ft.

Then there is a total of 60 ft x 35 ft between the green area and the back of our house (minus a small MIL house).

So from the back of our house to the back of our property is close to 200 feet with a width of 60 feet.

I planted the willow 20 feet from the left fence line and 40 from the right. I sure hope that is enough room.

As far as beds go I am still brainstorming ideas. So far it is all grass in that area other than the bamboo island and the small circle around the willow.

One of the things I must consider that makes bed planning more difficult is the irrigation water. We flood the yard using an irrigation ditch we have along the back fence of the property. The water covers the entire back yard about 1-2 inches deap within 1.5 hours. This is great for the lawn and never having to run the sprinklers, but I have found with beds it tends to wash all the mulch all over the lawn. I spend an hour each time I water cleaning up the mess. Luckily we now have a bamboo barrier around the bamboo island the protects the mulch from getting washed out by the water and protects the world from the bamboo. lol

But I would very much like to soften the large rectangle with beds.

Another thing to consider is the width, compared to the legnth of the yard. I don't want beds that narrow the yard any more, since it is already very long. Instead I would like beds that appear to shorten the yard.

As you can see I have spent a lot of time thinking about this yard. I have to scale versions of the property on grid paper that I have drawn and re-drawn landscaping plans until my fingers where sore. Lol, yes I am a gardening nerd. ;)

Here is a picture of what I have done with the bamboo area, showing how the barrier seperates the mulch from the grass and irrigation.

{{gwi:404050}}

I would like to now put some sort of border around the barrier to hide it a bit.

But I could do the same thing with beds.

As far as ideas, thank you every one please keep them coming. :)

why do you water by flooding???

every time i used a dark mulch.. it cooked all the plants in it.. from heating of the mulch and retained heat ... i now prefer an uncolored NATURAL looking mulch ... unless that black color is just a optical illusion ...

i am still of the opinion that the willow is improper ... check out the link.. see any pictured in suburban backyards????

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

That's a nice planting bed!

Here's a couple more. Juniperus scopulorum 'Tolleson's Weeping'

or Pinus wallichiana (this one is at Denver Botanic Gardens)
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Ken
I water by flooding since I don't want ditches running through my lawn every three feet (the garden area does have ditches). I use irrigation instead of city water because I have it. This is the high desert, we get no rain from June to Sept and it would be a fortune to use city water. Plus the Chihuahua LOVES playing in it and that's makes it all worth it ;)

I would not consider my yard a typical suburban spread. We have a 1800 square foot house 900 SF on two levels on a total of a half an acre lot. All our neighbors to the right and left have the set up down the street. All of the land was at one time farm land and some still is. We have cows across the street.

As far as the Weeping Willow goes, I love them. And with the moisture we have from the ditch system I figured it would love my yard. As far as getting too big I will cross that bridge when it comes.

I have black mulch in 6 other beds not shown in the pictures and had no problems last year with plants getting burnt.

Gardener365, I really like the Pinus contorta 'Taylor's Sunburst' and the 'Extra Blue' Pinus flexilis.

Sluice, I like the Pinus wallichiana a lot too.

I am going to have to start researching some of these options and see what I can get around here.

I have been researching the suggestions and I think I would like to put in the 'Extra Blue' Pinus flexilis as the largest and back drop. I will place a Pinus thunbergiana 'Thunderhead' to one side. I would like one more smaller maybe weeping, maybe yellow to finish off the conifer bed. Any thoughts on something that fits that description? I am afraid the 'Taylor's Sunburst' and Pinus wallichiana would get too large.

Also I have a hardy Dwarf Palmetto Palm that needs a permanent home. How do you think a palm (bush) would look mixed in with the conifers?

We better hesitate just a moment... Pinus thunbergii (thunbergiana) 'Thunderhead' is on its' own a full-size width conifer that would perfectly occupy an entire corner of your fenced in yard. It grows over a foot a year. Here's one I photographed at The US National Arboretum (age: bewtween 15-20 years old)... a "short" bridge to travel & a spot you might not wish to be in, as well.

Pinus thunbergiana 'Thunderhead'
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And I don't know about all this water..... sounds very problematic for conifers... especially if bamboo is dying. Is that heavy clay soil... ?

(I need more info & your opinions).

Dax

Good to know about the size of the Thunderhead. I checked a website that said 8x6 feet was the max growth. Obviously that is not the case. I will need to re-think My plan.

Look at all the things I am learning on this one thread ;)

I don't think it will be too wet for the conifers since I will build the bed up a little and put some sort of barrier around it so it does not get flooded with the lawn. Then I will just need to hand water.

The soil is a sandy loam. No clay or rocks. We dug this ditch a few weeks ago to install the bamboo barrier and as you can see it is sandy loam all the way down.
{{gwi:404048}}

Th bamboo is not dead. I planted it last year and it did great, but I think since it wasn't established that well by winter it got leaf burn around Jan. There are still green shoots within the bunches and I have been told it will drop the leaves and re-grow new ones within a month or so.

I see & nice soil. I'm not aware at all how you flood your property; I guess I have never heard of anything like that. How does it work?

I don't think conifers will tolerate all that dampness during the summer... so be careful, that's all I can say.

Impressive work. I like that bed...... every garden has a setting. You've done something unique. That's going to be most-impressive I see when you have your raised beds in place and all the pathways between and lots of gardening areas & plants.

Thanks for explaining a bit to me about this flooding method. Where does the water come from first of all? I'm lost here!

Best Regards,

Dax

Dax

I am laughing right now because I had the same conversation with husband. He is from OK and had never heard of our type of irrigation before. He said in the east and midwast water falls from the sky because God loves them more lol ;)

We get zero rain for about four months in the summer and not much rain year round. The only moisture we get is snow in the winter. So the original settlers dug a series of trench systems to channel the water (as it melts) from the mountains into the valley. There are large irrigation ditchs all over that feed into smaller irrigation ditchs that feed into our yards. The back fence line of our property is a ditch about three feet deep and wide. When we want water, we open a gate (hatch) that causes the water to flow into our yard. We had to dig a series of even smaller ditches to channel the water where we want. The garden is rows about 3 feet wide with a 12 inch ditch on either side of each row. But for the lawn we have a ditch that runs along the east fence line and overflows onto the grass. We have the gate open for about 1.5 hours twice a week in the hottest time of the year and it keeps everything watered just right.

We are lucky enough to still have water rights since most places have done away with it and use city water.

I hope that makes sense.

Here is a pic, not a great one but it shows the ditch on our back fence. and some of the smaller ditches in our yard.

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'That' is incredible. And I was was laughing along with your husband.

Thank you!

Dax

No problem.

That picture you posted of the thunderhead is beautiful. I think I may want that tree instead of the 'Extra Blue' Pinus flexilis as the main tree for the spot. It is very unique. I like the random shape the most. I mainly see the normal cone shaped conifers around here. It truly has character.

Looks like the neighbors started sprucing up a bit too(pun intended)

Pinus thunbergiana 'Thunderhead' is susceptible to Pine wilt in Utah.

It has no natural protection against this disease.

Dave

Dave, that makes me sad.

Maybe I will go with the 'Extra Blue' Pinus flexilis as the large one. With a Picea abies 'Gold Drift' as an accent.

Another thing on Thunderhead.....I had two of them die in just two years for one reason only.....their feet stayed too wet. They were in a rich soil area that held moisture forever. Your soil sure looks like drainage would be fine. But if after you do one of your "floods" the soil stays wet for very long, the Thunderhead won't survive.....espeically in the first few years of root establishment.

mark