Here is another picture they didn't all come up

This is what it looked like before i transplanted it

Well, marbles at the bottom will not prevent roots from sitting in water, Lady Bug, this concept of putting rocks or larger aggregate material in the bottom of a pot is just erroneous thinking. You're better off using a very well-draining potting mix. If you search our forum for either "511 mix" or "gritty mix", you'll find 2 good recipes for a great well-draining potting mix. Or, you can buy one of the great Farfard professional mixes, again, search our forum for "Farfard" to see which of their mixes our container citrus folks prefer. And, I'm not sure what you're referring to with "13-3-7-10"? Usually folks will use numbers like this to refer to the NPK fertilizer ratio with fertilizers. You of course will want to fertilize your Meyer with a good fertilizer that has the best NPK ratio plus all the micronutrients. Many container folks here on this forum like to use DynaGro's Foliage Pro. It can be used with every watering (it is a concentrated liquid fertilizer). Transplanting citrus can cause some transplant shock, which can cause both fruit and leaf drop, but your little tree was way too small to support any fruit anyway, so don't worry. Also, I would start to acclimate your tree to outdoors. You would do it a great service to have it outside as much as possible during the year. So, outside all year until temps threaten to drop below 35 degrees. Do this gradually, as Meyers can be a bit sensitive to changes in light. And, ditch the pan underneath. This will cause your tree to sit in water :-) Allow it to drain. I have no idea who would have told you to allow your tree to sit in water, that is the surest way to kill a citrus tree.

Patty S.

I'm using Miracle-Gro cactus,Palm & Citrus Soil Fast-Draining Formula nitrogen 0.13% phosphate0.03% soluble potash 0.07% iron 0.10% we agree on the tray i dumped it.

That's not well draining, Lady Bug. You're going to find that it will compact and cause water retention issues. And, not enough fertilizer, either, in the soil. You do need to fertilize your tree regularly. Most container folks will use Foliage Pro with every watering, 1/2 strength during the winter, and then full strength during the warmer late spring through early fall months. Again, I would strongly recommend you check out the references I've mentioned. Many, many very successful container citrus folks on our forum use the above methods. Your tree is showing signs of etiolation, meaning it is stretching to try to reach a light source as it is not getting enough light (which is why it is so long and spindly). You can continue as you're doing and get so-so results, or do a little more searching on this forum to see what other experienced container citrus growers are doing to see they are using these methods very successfully :-) All the photos below are of trees that were less than 2 years old. The last one, my Chironja orangelo I received almost dead, so it probably is the smallest of all the trees in the photos, but is still thriving very nicely. So, up to you how you wish to grow your container citrus I suppose. But for me, the recommendations I have provided you seem to be working well for me. Of course, I have the benefit of having the ability to grow my container citrus outside all year 'round, but by bringing your citrus tree outside for as long as you can will make a huge difference in the growth and health of your little tree. These are just a few of my container citrus, and the rest of my 100+ citrus are in the ground, but I do enjoy having citrus right on my patios as well as in ground.

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Patty S.

Your lemon trees are beautiful, my lemon is in front of a window where it can get lots of light and sun,this is my 3rd lemon plant my first 2 died the nursery where i bought it said potted meyers lemon plants that are grown for the house should not be put out doors, this is the first one thats lived past one year,I live here in Vermont where the weather is up and down if you know what i mean,i will look for the soil you talked about but don't know if i can find it here. Thank-You for your suggestions.

Well, none are lemons, Lady Bug. You are seeing a Ortanique tangor, a Bergamot sour orange, a Bouquet de Fluers sour orange, and a Chironja orangelo in my photos. I forgot to snap a photo of my Santa Teresa Feminello lemon, which I also have in a pot on my patio. Please understand that having a citrus tree inside in a sunny window is really not enough sunlight. The amount of sun that can get through a window is significantly diminished, even a "sunny" window will get a fraction of the amount of UV to a plant. Citrus trees need the real thing - direct sunlight. They are not designed really to be houseplants, but we can fudge a bit, if we can give then as much direct sunlight as possible throughout the year. Just acclimate outside slowly, and then do the reverse in the fall - acclimate slowly back to inside. All our serious container citrus growers on our forum bring their trees outside for the warmer months, and only have their citrus inside during the winter, when temps are below 35 degrees. One of the reasons your first two trees met their demise is due to not enough sunlight. Again, not sure who is giving you such poor advice, but glad you found the forum, we'll get you squared away, and you can let this person know the information they're sharing is not ideal :-) We have several New England forum members here who have their trees outside all summer. Just protect them from bad storms so they don't get beat up or flooded with rain water. If you cannot find Farfard's professional potting mixes, simply make up your own mix using either the "gritty" or "511" mixes. And, I would also pot up a bit. Your pot is still a wee bit small.

Patty S.

OK i did alot of searching for Fafard soil i did find it online looks like good soil but its not sold here in Vermont,i called the company it out of Mass.she said they would have to ship it to me and that would be to expensive,I called the nurseries around here in Vermont they only use good regular potting soil,they asked me what i needed it for i told them about my lemon and the soil i was using they said if it blossoms and bears fruit my soil is good if i wanted i could lighten it up,so where do i go from here?

So, follow my recommendations I posted previously, and search on our forum for "511 mix" or "gritty mix", and you'll come up with recipes for both homemade potting mixes which work extremely well. You will need to fertilize with each watering, and most container folks prefer to use DynaGro's Foliage Pro, which is a concentrated liquid fertilizer that provides the correct NPK ratio of macronutrients, as well as the full complement of the micronutrients. I buy mine through amazon.com. I also use a time release fertilizer as well, Osmocote Plus, which sadly has been discontinued. There are some other time release options, just try to find a high N time release that also contains the micronutrients.

Patty S.

I'll see if i can find the info your talking about if i don't i'll let you know maybe you know where to look better than i do. I use osocote smart release plant food it has 10% amnoniacal nitrogen and 9% nitrate nitrogen I was told thats to high for lemons.

I found alot of info on your 511 or gritty mix but no recipes for it,i also noticed theres people that don't agree with your view about the mix,i take it you can't buy 511 mix in a bag? If you know how to find the recipes let me know but keep in mind i only have one lemon tree.

Lady bug,

Here's a link for making Al's gritty mix. It's the best thing for a citrus plant! I have a 1 yr old cara cara orange tree, and a 1 yr old meyer lemon tree and they thrive in it! I live in the north (MI) where we don't have warm temperatures year round and it's essential to have a fast draining mix.

Here's the how to for making Al's gritty mix. this site will show you what materials you need, (only 3) the ratio they will need to be made in, how to prepare the ingredients, and where to find the ingredients.
http://www.etenix.com/gardening/grittymix

for turface I bought a bag from a distributor that was in my area. this site will tell you what distributors are in your state too. They smallest bag they come in are 50lb bags, but it's only like $12 and you can have extra for a while to come when you will need to pot up.
http://www.turface.com/distributors/state/

for granite grit I get a 25lb bag of poultry grit. The picture below is exactly what I get from tractor supply. You can find poultry grit at any farm store or feed store. Note: make sure you get poultry grit and not chick grit! chick grit is still crushed granite but it will be too small to be useful.
http://reviews.tractorsupply.com/0519/104396299/manna-pro-poultry-grit-25-lb-reviews/reviews.htm

for fine bark I use repti bark that I get at the pet store. you can find it at any pet store.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752663

Here's the fertilizer I use, it's called foliage pro, I use 1 tsp a week and mix it with about 1/2 gallon - 1 full gallon. I only water my citrus once a week right now, and it's the perfect amount for them.
http://www.amazon.com/Orchids-R-Us-Inc-Foliage/dp/B0029O9V5A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373501343&sr=8-2&keywords=foliage+pro

when winter sets in I intend to do what is shown in the 2nd picture in the link below. This cheap way to give sun to your plant is approved by four winds! (a dwarf citrus tree farm in Cali where I bought my cara cara navel tree).
http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=r5djbcdab&v=001gitP1NKQiAL2nkoUyEtytnLpU27fXbYECjwoNqyYC15N8MhHGVL5289_GqFybHz4UxyZoNq_04ZCmQwcyEa3dM3GzPnEqzxAv-7VwFEhTO4dBGb9HlEyuQ%3D%3D

I've attached a picture of my cara cara navel tree. Hope this helps! (it has a cover over it when it sits outside to protect it from too much water! not sure where you are at, but in MI we've had wayyy too much rain).

Here is a close up of the new growth! sorry about the odd format of my last message. Hope all this information helps! and if you're interested in getting a stockier and healthier citrus tree, i'd recommend four winds farm!

https://www.fourwindsgrowers.com

OK thank you i will look this over real good and see what i can do i'll get back to you soon. I live near Rutland VT 05738 Were getting alot of rain this year also trees here don't always do good this is why we have to be careful what we put out doors.

Well, first off, it's not my mix, these two mixes were developed by some very experienced citrus growers, and they have years of good results. I believe the 511 mix seems to have a bit more adherents than the Gritty Mix, but both yield excellent results, especially for areas that receive a lot of summer rain (east coast/midwest). You're welcome to do what you want to do, Lady Bug. I use a slightly different mix, because I have the exact opposite issue with rain - none at all during the hot summer months, so I need a bit more moisture retention, or I'd be watering my container citrus 2 to 3 times a day during our hottest parts of our summer.

I guess you can compare your results with all the other container citrus folks on the list who use this mix or something similar (such as the Farfard I have recommended - I cannot purchase that either where I live, so I mix up my own mix). If you think your results are good, then keep doing what you're doing. I gave you photos of my trees which are about the same age as your tree for an example between your success with your citrus and mine. I can tell you the most successful container citrus growers use this or similar mixes (511, Gritty, Farfard or something very similar). Container citrus do not do well if they are in a compacted mix. They need enough space for air/oxygen. If the potting medium becomes compacted and retains water, the roots literally suffocate.

So, up to you. You asked for advice. I gave you the best I have, based on many years of citrus growing experience, being a Master Gardener, as well as passing on very good advice from our forum from other very experienced and successful container citrus growers. It is up to you to take it or leave it, that's the beauty of advice :-) I would simply suggest you look at the results and decide for yourself what you're after - trees like mine and others using similar growing methods I've mentioned, or what you've got, currently. As you can see, msugirl2010 uses this mix, and also fertilizes as I'm mentioned, much of these recommendations were promoted by one of our most successful forum members, Meyermike, who I know msugirl has followed. MeyerMIke lives in Massachussetts and has some of the most gorgeous container citrus on our forum. So, I guess you can take the advice or leave it. Wishing you continued success with your lemon tree.

Patty S.

MY goodness!! Patty!

Patty, your container trees are just AWESOME and the coloring is beautiful! I must say you can't can't give the credit to your weather, but to your smart wit, sharp knowledge, and ability to apply good knowledge.
I have a few friends that seem to have trouble getting their trees to look las green and healthy as yours even though they are living in climate areas like yours......

Hello Msugrl...Looking fantastic....

You are getting from WONDERFUL advice advice Ladybug..It took me years to find the information and advice given to you in just this thread alone. I wish you luck and hope you grow like we are..

Mike:-)

This post was edited by meyermike_1micha on Thu, Jul 11, 13 at 12:02

Thanks, Mike, but truly, my lovely S. California weather does give me a bit of an edge :-) You should post a few of your incredible container citrus for Ladybug, as she can see a fellow New Englander who has had tremendous success with their container citrus. I must say, your co-workers must LOVE working near your desk, as your work trees are as fabulous as your home trees! Keep us posted on your greenhouse, I am so excited for you, how simply fantastic that you've got a greenhouse going and your first Meyer lemon planted in the ground in the greenhouse!

Patty S.

OK i'm afraid i didn't make out very good Here in Vermont i can get the poultry grit and the fine bark but not the turface,i called every where i could think of to call some distributors were 1 1/2 hrs. drive for me they said if they did sell it they wouldn't sell it to me because i'm not a store. when they asked me what i wanted it for they said to use what i'm already using,they said if i wanted to make my soil lighter just add perlite to the soil. Vermont is different then where you are stores around here only sell bagged soils nothing to make mixtures with,if theres something else i could use instead of turface i might be able to get it stores here don't know what that is. sorry for all the work you did but i did try.don't know what else to do.

Thank you Patty! I will..I will post a few pics as soon as I can and start a new thread, and I will also credit your great growing success to your growing practices more so than your area:-)
Hoping all is well.

Lady...As long as you understand the concept of these mixes,, you can substituteor amend with whatever you can find locally in your area after you have exhausted all avenues.

Why not try using the bark with peat and perlite as Patty had suggested before and use it to make a nice lighter 5.1.1 mix?

You really don't have to fret about the turface..Anything you put together that comes close to the mixes will do as long as you make it properly.and much better than any bagged mix other than 'Fafard Mix'.

Let us know what you do please..

Remember,

it's the understanding how roots grow in containers more effienctly, to their top vigor, and how to make that happen with great porous mixes that is most important for a good foundation in container gardening.

lady bug,
went to the turface site and searched up your state, found this:

JOHN DEERE LANDSCAPE

Serving multiple locations. Contact us for a location near you.
(800) 347-4272
www.johndeerelandscapes.com/home/locations.aspx
NORTHERN NURSERIES

White River Jct.
(802) 295-2117
NORTHEAST NURSERY

802-222-7341
www.northeastnursery.com
SEEDWAY

Shoreham
(888) 863-9099
www.seedway.com

all these places will have turface mvp (this is the type of turface you want). make calls to these places and see which one is closest to you. to get the turface I had to drive for about 40 minutes, it was on the edge of the suburbs and starting to get into the country side of MI.

perlite will make your soil lighter, but when questioned by those who haven't raised citrus before most will raise an eye brow when you mention you want turface in your plant mix. I remember when I went to a family owned plant nursery not too far from me, they questioned why I needed them to order me one fafard bag (back when I tried fafard, which didn't work for me though works better when not used in the midwest and northeast). and when I told them I was growing a citrus tree in a pot they laughed me right out of the nursery and told me it was foolish and impossible. If I were you, I wouldn't mess with the formula too much unless you're feeling really comfortable with growing citrus, like mike and hoosierquilt. I haven't been growing citrus for too long but once I switched to the gritty mix, it's been easy street. It doesn't hold gnats or other bugs either because it's such an inhospitable environment for them, so it's quite easy to bring them back inside for the winter. Here's a link for turface mvp online if you can't find any place by you.

http://compare.ebay.com/like/200889918339?var=lv
mike and hoosier, thanks for the compliments on my cara cara tree! :) I'm very happy with it. I also have a meyer lemon that I got from whole foods, and it's doing well too. question for the colder season care (which is a ways off luckily!) Hoosier said you use foliage pro at half strength? (so half a tsp per 1/2 gallon - 1 gallon of water?)

good luck lady bug! mike and hoosierquilt are some of the most knowledgable people on here when it comes to taking care of citrus! they have helped me out quite a bit over the past year or so! :).

Such a thoughtful jesture on your part to help her find Turface Msugrl..So thoughful!

I suggested using the 5.1.1 because that is the easiest mix for anyone to work with when coming off using bagged mixes for years...It is a great mix too in which I use because it is more durable, but the 5.1.1 mix does just as well and is much easier to use.

Many like you have great success with it right off the bat, but then there are others who don't like me, and then find out the 5.1.1 mix is much easier or a version of it.

That is what great about the 5.1.1 and the 1.1.1. Both are perfect for growing anything and do just as good as job as the other. The only difference is that the 1.1.1 mix outlasts the 5.1.1 much longer.

By the way, your comments are so kind. Thank you:-)

I found and call the nurseries your talking about they don't carry turface and they said if they did they wouldn't sell it to me because i'm not a store

Seems that what I am saying is only beening acknowledged by Patty and Msugrl..Take care

MIke

This post was edited by meyermike_1micha on Fri, Jul 12, 13 at 8:34

I'm with Patty and Mike... there is only so much free expert advice you can give to some people before you get tired and leave them to their own follies.

ladybug

here's turface mvp.
http://www.amazon.com/Turface-Regular-Mvp-Model-BFMVP5004P/dp/B001O83M0W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373627935&sr=8-1&keywords=turface+mvp

Guys, such negativity... here are my 2 cents.

Many people swear by the 5:1:1 and 1:1:1 mixes, as they work very well, but there are also several other simple mixes that should be fine too.

Regarding finding ingredients for the 5:1:1 and/or the 1:1:1 mixes Msugrl has some good advice, if you can't find Turface locally, there are several places online it can be ordered from. Alternatively, you can search locally (or online) for "calcined clay" this is the actual material that Turface is made with.

If you don't want to go through the trouble of making the above mixes, there are also many alternatives that work reasonably well. For example, I know a very experienced citrus grower, that lives in an area with 45-50 inches of annual rainfall, who just uses Miracle Gro garden soil (this is not the same as Miracle Gro potting soil) for his containers. Personally, I have been switching my trees to a 1:1 mix of the Miracle Gro garden soil and cedar (or hemlock) mulch. There are also several other very experienced growers using similar mixes to this. The mulches and garden soils should be available at nearly any Nursery or Garden Center. Some people will cringe about using the garden soil alone, however, as one of its primary ingredients is peat. For me, the 1:1 mix seems to have a good balance of water retention (without becoming a soggy mess) and drainage, although it may not be as ideal as the aforementioned 1:1:1 and 5:1:1 mixes. The only caveat with the more simple mixes, is that you may need to pay a little more careful attention to them.

In my opinion, one of the most important general things that is necessary to have healthy looking citrus (or any other container plant) is to pay attention to the plants and containers. Get a decent container mix that is appropriate for the needs of the plant and importantly be patient and observant (don't overreact and change too many different cultural conditions at once, don't water until the soil is soggy, don't let the soil dry completely, make sure the plant is getting the proper nutrients, etc...)

Above all, do not stress too much over all of the nitty-gritty details, if the whole process becomes a burden, then what's the point?

Others here (and hopefully myself too) have given volumes of helpful advice, it's up to you to decide how you want to use it. Please let us know how your tree does.

Best of luck,
-Scott

Thank-You I can get miracle grow garden soil here but thought t was ment to put in ground soil i to am done no matter whats been said i know i tryed my best,i will keep all info that was given thank-you hoosierquilt for all your time and info. you all have a good day

Negativity??? Rude maybe?

What I find is that when you spend countless of precious hours trying to help and encourage others to be successful with an upbeat feeling ignored,,,,, quite rude. Especially since I have been spending lot's of time at work and in the hospital helping my parents.

It takes all the enjoyment and enthusiasm to help others out of here.

Have a nice day.

This post was edited by meyermike_1micha on Fri, Jul 12, 13 at 8:42

Thanks mike for the compliments! I've only gotten this far from your advice and other citrus experts like hoosierquilt :). I must say I'm impressed with your meyer lemon that is in the ground! it looks beautiful! and not sure if I mentioned to hoosierquilt but your citrus do look amazing too! I hope my cara cara and meyer lemon can look that great once they get older. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to care for both trees when it gets a bit colder when it comes to light needs. I will be using the method that four winds deemed as great for citrus that I mentioned a few messages ago (I pasted the picture of the citrus tree set up in the message). it's pretty cheap too which is nice. but because I have 2 trees right now, I may have to buy 2 of everything and it could get costly and I'm not sure if there is enough space for it where I live. Mike, how do you care for your trees in the winter? I know new england winters are just as bitter as michigan winters, so whatever you do would likely work for me too.

ladybug Scott is right, you need to do what works for you, and if the entire thing becomes a burden and it's no longer fun, then what's the point? haha ;). I just told you what works for me and what didn't work for me so you could be spared some of the mistakes that I made which killed 3 trees in the past 1.5 years (2 from whole foods, the first time I got citrus, and one from four winds which I ended up giving to my grandmother because she admired it so much, but the fafard mix I used on it (where I also sifted out the extra peet because it stayed wet for too long) did not work for the poor tree at all, and when I went to visit her at her home about a month and a half later the tree was sitting bare and dead in it's pot and she had no idea what had happened, despite the directions I had given her on how to care for it XD. so hopefully it will work for you if you decide to use it!). not sure how much experience you have with ordering online, but it's actually not that bad, you just try to avoid shipping costs. the last link I sent you that had turface mvp had no shipping costs if you're still interested.

good luck on your citrus endeavors! :)

I should add one final comment to my previous post about different container mixes. In using 100% garden soil (e.g. Miracle Gro) you will need to be extra careful and watch out for soil compaction. Over time these mixes tend to settle and compact, which squeezes many of the small air pockets out of the container medium, thus increasing the potential for having problems with the health of your trees roots. Therefore, if you go with this mix, you will need to re-pot the tree with fresh mix more frequently than with the other options.