OK, I bought this one at the nursery and it is labeled Picea mariana 'Nana'. But is it? Or did they just prune it this way?

Thanks! {{gwi:648874}}Picea mariana

Which of the P. mariana would you consider your favorite Dave?

Wild-type, with its exquisite cones:
{{gwi:648877}}

Resin

Wow, great photos here all around, but WOW that's a stunning photo Resin. The needles look almost like Abies lasiocarpa and those cones are simply other-worldly.

I only have two picea mariana myself and I'm looking to add one or two more. - Blue Tear Drop for sure.

Will

I agree with Will.Nice to see 'Nana' and 'Ericoides' side by side,to see the difference.
R :I'm amazed at the density of the foliage on that plant.Is this a habitat shot or not? T.

Dave,
In my opinion, your Picea mariana "Nana " are "Ericaides"
and your Picea mariana "Ericoides" are the true "Nana"
Clément

Barbara...in ...Calif. I would have to say I really have no favorites. All are unique in their presentation. The only 4 I have.

T..this is a habitat shot..my own if that is what your implying.

Resin...just what is that wild type...also looks like Abies to me.

K4...I have no idea what you have. I am sure someone will chime in with an expert opinion.

Clement...what???

Dave

i think clement is saying.. that HE WOULD flip the two tags ....

but you wont.. lol ...

resin.. posting a wickapedia pic.... tsk tsk .. unless you posted it there ...

great job dave .. cant wait until the grass greens up.. for a more lush appearance ...

ken

I'm certainly no expert, but recall being told that Abies cones face upwards.
Wonder if the foliage similarity is why Picea abies was named...well...abies.
Resins photo, though of mariana, certainly has many of us scratching our heads!

Barbara

I think Clément is right, the plant you mentioned as 'Ericoides' is the true 'Nana', and the 'Nana'on the picture is the 'Ericoides'.

Sorry Clement & coniferjoy, Dave is correct, 'Ericoides' differs in having the more layered overlapping foliage look and gently spreads and gets bluer with age. 'Nana' seems to vary a lot as a young plant,I guess depending on the vigour of the propagating material originally used. but generally settles down with age to become a low mound tightly packed with foliage ,wider than high. Also 'Nana can revert quite readily whereas 'Ericoides' does not.

This is the tag I took off of this conifer I have named 'Ericoides' in this thread. Description on tag match the plant I am showing in question. The one I am showing is a little leggy because it is grown in part shade.

Purchased in 2005. I have seen this same conifer for sale numerous times with same tag on corresponding look alike in this thread.

A Iseli conifer. I guess they don't know what they are selling. Either that or you guys across the pond are growing something entirely different or have made an incorrect determination,based on whatI don't know, that these conifers are not what they appear to be.

Interesting to say the least.

Dave
{{gwi:648878}}

No sure bluespruce.
See link:http://www.esveld.nl/htmldia/p/pimnan.htm

Clément

Clement,
It was Dutch nurseries who were responsible for many years selling Picea mariana 'Nana' as Picea glauca 'Echiniformis' and creating all the confusion with that plant. And with all due respect, I'll take no lessons from them listing Picea mariana 'Ericoides' with the correct plant either.

I had a young Black Spruce. I loved its soft very dark lustrous color and fluffy shape. Wanted to plant another one but nobody around here has any. Last summer I found out why when the heat killed my beautiful little baby. Such a bummer. Hate losing trees. Losing a bunch now to unusual winter cold / ice / snow. The Black Spruce is a lovely tree. Thanks for posting pictures.

Hi all...Dave,my question about habitat-photos was really directed at Resin,who,in my opinion should have captioned his picture with 'a typical wild plant',wich is non botanical,but can be understood by all. By habitat we mean the geographical range where plants of a given species (sp.)or subspecies (ssp)can be found that correspond to a given botanical description.If such plants are artificially propagated,then we speak of cultivated plants or varieties wich in turn can give rise to...well...culti-variants. T.
PS :and much confusion!!!

Not a real habitat shot - it is in a naturalised population in NE England, not a wild plant. The background foliage is part of a Picea sitchensis plantation.

Here's another one in the same naturalised population. They start producing cones when very young, some of them when less than a metre tall.
{{gwi:648880}}

Resin

Thanks R. The needles just seem so much bluer than what I've seen being offered as P.mariana . I've only seen containergrown plants though, wich were probably rootbound and half-starved...needles much thinner also. By the way,being a northerly species,does it really dislike heat? T.

I think the "wild type" was a direct attempt to hi-jack my thread on mariana cultivars. Now let's just let it die and go away.

If you want to post a thread on Picea mariana species...go ahead. You can post 1 photo or a 100...the problem is most all will look alike. No I won't butt in and post any cultivars. I consider myself a cut above doing that...go ahead have your day in the sun.

Dave

I believe that I have two Picea mariana 'Nana' in my garden.

About 10 years ago I bought Picea mariana 'Nana' from Greer Gardens, and that looks exactly like the above shown Picea mariana 'Ericoidies'. It is now less than 1 ft high and 2 1/2 ft wide and in partial shade. I also bought a same looking plant as a 'bird's nest spruce' at a local nursery.

At the same nursery I bought another 'bird's nest spruce' 5 yrs ago which has short densely packed dark-green needles, is 1+ ft high and 2 1/2 ft wide and does not have the 'bird's nest'. It looks great, bu I wonder what that is.
Bernd

Hi Dave!

Now you've helped me name about a dozen conifers I have growing in my garden. I purchased them from 'Perfect Plants', an ebay subsidary of 'Wayside Gardens' and they called them 'Blue Nest Spruce'. They were very inexpensive, something like 3.99 shipped, so I snapped them up. They look very similar to yours and now I am sure they are the same plant - mine add blue-ish, almost teal colored new needles. A fairly attractive plant, I had no idea what it was, other then a dwarf spruce.

For now I was going to use it as 'filler' a plant I moved once other plants grew into it, but now knowing it is a named mariana spruce, I'm much more likely to keep them, at least some of them.

'Nana' purchased and planted here is the flat type (looking like a blue Nest spruce) being called 'Ericoides' on this thread. With other species it seems the hedgehog type of growth is what gets called 'Ericoides'. And I thought when I got it my plant looked like other photos of 'Nana', so I have never been prompted to check - and do not know what the correct naming actually is.

"Typical" in this context means the original species and is used to differentiate such specimens from variants such as cultivars.

Dave brings up a good point that I think deserves clarification. If the OP is species related, would it be considered uncouth to post a picture of or a question relating to a cultivar, or vice versa? I certainly want to use proper etiquette when posting on this forum and avoid the possible wrath of messing up.

Bob

Hi. The opening post reads 'A few Picea mariana photos'.A botanist would expect species related photos.I think we have to keep our Rubber Soul attitude and not fly off the hook too soon (if at all).Technically speaking,Dave,the hick-up was yours. T.

Tunilla...everybody knows I post dwarf and miniature cultivars. Never species. My space limitations prevent me from ever entertaining the thought of growing species.

By the same token I appreciate the species loving person who takes the time to post photos of the trees he/she loves. There is plenty of room for both here. I personally enjoy the photos of large conifers that grow in places I have never been and probably won't ever visit.

The intent was there. "Wild type" says it all. That was the hick up. It's been done to me before you arrived on the scene T. I have been on this forum for 5 years so don't tell me how the crow flies. Get some wings first.

Dave

Sorry if you feel that way; it certainly wasn't intended. I posted because I felt the pics would contribute a different aspect of the species (the very attractive cones). On calling it 'wild type', I'm not sure what else could I call it?

Should mention too (re "My space limitations prevent me from ever entertaining the thought of growing species") that you'd be able to grow normal Picea mariana OK without space problems. The two in my photos are both much smaller than your 'Aureovariegata' above; the camera was held at eye level. Even the oldest specimens in the population are only about 7-8m tall and mostly fairly slender, despite being maybe 50-80 years old.

Resin

Maybe to help diffuse things here, while I kind of knew what to expect on Dave's post, I can appreciate the images Resin added. I don't see it as a hijack attempt since it was only one image. If the title said Picea mariana 'clones' or Picea mariana 'cultivars' I'd see an easier arguement against species images, but for me, there's certainly no malice intent here. Perhaps there are deeper rivalries amongst those involved, but I think we should just relax a touch and enjoy a lot more.

I *do* think there is a need for an alternative forum, either for cultivars or species, as there do seem to be two distinct conifer crowds represented here.

If you want no part of species images on your posts Dave, perhaps you could title it something like

Picea mariana 'cultivar photos only please'.

I never considered one's post as their personal property to defend.
Isn't this a forum for shared knowledge, ideas and opinions?
Wording my replies so not to offend is hard enough without worrying about potential hi-jack content.

Relax and have fun!

Barbara

Resin, your quote... "Sorry if you feel that way; it certainly wasn't intended."

No problem apology accepted.

In my opinion bluespruce has resolved the 'Nana' verses 'Ericoides' discussion.

Any other thoughts? Are we in agreement to a much discussed and confusing topic. In my way thinking some of us are not growing what the name tag implies.

I just post photos for the pure enjoyment of it and for whatever help they may give to the collector by seeing a visual of these conifers in a setting. We all don't grow the same thing. A photo speaks volumes...considering the thousands of cultivars that are now offered to the novice or pure collector. It opens the door for discussion and interaction between the novice and expert offering advice. By the way sit down and post 8-12 photos..a time consuming operation from shooting a photo of the conifers to hitting the submit message. You have to be devoted and have everybody's best interest in mind. 20 years ago this would have not been possible. Because of this new found technology we have a whole new host of individuals interested in conifer collecting that otherwise would not be on board .

There is much to be learned on this forum by the unselfish contributions by a very knowledgeable and diverse group of people.

Dave

hey dave .. at least you get more than 2 replies after an hour or two of taking.. editing.. and posting pix ...

i would die for that kind of enthusiasm.. regardless of content ...

lesson learned ... me i mean ..

ken

I'd say your enthusiasm is a 9 out of 10 Ken. You're quite the poster yourself. :)

At least this fellow enjoys your hard labor endlessly uploading images to photobucket and sharing them for our viewing pleasure.

here is a photo of my oldest plant of Picea mariana 'Nana'
over 20 years old, about 3 feet x 18 inches.
{{gwi:648882}}

Here is an old photo (not digital) of a Picea mariana 'Ericoides' at Adrian Blooms garden taken 1988, I purchased my plant after seeing this specimen and have grown it ever since. Unfortunately I have never taken a decent photo of my plant, and after taking a few propagations, scrapped my original last year.

Picea mariana 'Ericoides' in center of photo, has the more layered foliage in comparison with 'Nana' and will become a better blue with age.
{{gwi:648883}}

Strikingly impressive cultivars Stephen. I am going to move my 'Ericoides' to full sun. This should improve aver all appearance in a few years.

Thanks for your input.

70F. here today. Snow Friday. Not out of the woods yet but I can see a clearing. Spring not far away.

Dave

How the weather changes. Mid 50s a week earlier, 32 and snowing hard today. A good half foot again, turning into the winter of the ages here in the PNW.

"70F. here todaycolor>"

In zone 5b ?????

That don't sound right at all !

Kansas where Dave lives, I've never quite understood. He can't grow firs, he can grow Cedrus, any Japanese maple he wants, and it warms up there early every year and stays that way unless a freak incident.

It's like the wizard of oz, land.

Dax