do you mean picea pungens hoopsii???

12 to 18 inches per year.. once established ... if zone appropriate ...

no clue how the waxy blueness will hold up in your zone ....

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: insrt hoopsii in the box named CULTIVAR

I planted one for my daughter in Redlands CA. against my better judgment but was over ruled.

It lasted a year. Not a zone 8-9 compatible conifer.

Grown in the foot hills of the San Bernardino Mountains they do better with the cooler nights.

Dave

Will confirms Dave's experience. Picea pungens don't even do all that well up here in the PNW -- the climate is just too mild. I would assume it would be even less conducive in zone 9.

One does see older blue spruces here around now and again but they are often stressed, prone to spruce aphids and mites, susceptible to fungal issues and generally look pretty ratty in short order.

That's pretty much what I was thinking but I'm glad you guys confirmed it. I decided (but didn't post) that a blue fir would be a much better alternative. Abies bracteata, Abies grandis, Abies koreana, Abies lasiocarpa, Abies lasiocarpa var. arizonica (excellent alternative), Abies pinsapo are all in order for you. Find a blue cultivar and off you go; or, simply get a seedling of Abies lasiocarpa var. arizonica.

All these firs are designated for Sunset Western Garden Book Zone 9 (their zonal scale).

'Sunset Western Garden Book' (Fifth Printing June 1997); Sunset Books Inc, Menlo Park, CA; ISBN: 0376038519.

Dax

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I already have a few other cultivators in containers of Picea pungens, (and Picea glauca and Picea omorika), most about a year and a half old, so I'm already stuck with them, so I guess I'll get to see first hand how they do in the long run in my climate. I'll refrain from buying any more based on your advice.

I'll look into firs, however they seem to be less locally available in a decent size for a reasonable price.

I was thinking Cuppressus arizonica var. glabra 'Blue Ice' could be another blue choice that might be reasonable for my area. But I keep reading conflicting information on the growth rate, some say slow, some say fast. Any feedback is appreciated.

And BTY, 2007 Sunset edition does list Sunset zones 14- 17 as acceptable, which is what I am in.

Best,
elvie

Picea pungens 'Hoopsi' seems to be difficult to train. Looking at those being offered at a good local nursery, they have no distinct leader. Mine was growing around without a leader probably now for 10 years, is now in partial shade, has a nice blue, but I will rip it out and replace it with a blue hosta.

I don't find the Sunset Western Garden book to be a very accurate indication of what will do well where :-) Re: the picea, it states "Poor choice for Puget Sound region, where lack of winter cold leads to severe aphid infestions" (among other issues). Why it would consider the Bay area (Sunset zones 14-17) as having a harsher winter climate or this species being more suitable there is somewhat mysterious. Lack of winter cold as well as insufficient summer heat IMO would be limiting factors in both locations.

If you are looking for a distinctly blue specimen, Cupressus arizonica 'Carolina Sapphire' or 'Blue Ice' would be reasonable alternatives. Even these fair better in the NW than the blue spruces. And with a relatively fast rate of growth.

Someone wrote, " Abies lasiocarpa, Abies lasiocarpa var. arizonica (excellent alternative)" are good blue spruce alternatives for your (assumed) hot climate.

No offense but those would be the WORST choice. These grow higher up then blue spruce in their native habitat. Think about that for a minute.

I am not sure I'd agree with that assessment :-) First Abies lasiocarpa has a much broader natural range than does Picea pungens, encompassing some pretty moderate climate conditions. They are native to parts of California and all along the western Cascades and the Olympics and are found as low as 2000'. They are widely grown in this area (close to sea level) and while growth is slow, they do thrive and do not suffer anywhere near the difficulties blue spruces are prone to. I would align them much more closely with Tsuga mertensiana in this regard and I don't see why they couldn't be used equally as well in the Bay area. In fact, most of the cautions for California with this species is to avoid hot, dry climates -- that is typically NOT a Bay area issue :-)

And while I don't put all that much stock in everything Sunset has to say, they do not include any limiting factors for this species as they do with Picea pungens and they are rated for the OP's zone.

Thanks for explaining Gardengal.

Dax

In our area (at However, if you're looking for a blue tree, have you considered a blue China fir? Someone here once cited it as the southerner's blue spruce.

I find it fascinating that the concensus on Blue Spruce growing in the PNW is a "thumbs down", yet there are dozens of HUGE nurseries up there growing acre upon acre upon acre of Blue Spruce. I saw very large and healthy ones in large quantities at Iseli, Russels, Buchholz, etc. that seemed to be faring wonderfully (I visited a lot of nurseries when I was out there last fall at the Maple Society meeting). Coenosium, Porterhowse and others in that area have huge display gardens with every spruce concievable, and sell them as well. What gives??

The climate of the Willamette Valley - where the bulk of those nurseries are located - is quite different from that of both the Puget Sound area and the Bay area. It is hotter in summer and colder in winter - much more to the liking of Picea pungens than the nearly uniformly year round mild climates of the other two. And a great many of those plants are grown to be shipped elsewhere.

This is not say blue spruce do not grow here - they do. But you have to look long and hard to find a mature specimen in good condition. They are just prone to too many problems that disfigure them and make them unsightly. There are much better blue conifer choices for these areas.

Thanks for the explanation. So really it isn't that P.pungens doesn't do well in the PNW; it just doesn't do well in certain AREAS of the PNW.

I'd say it doesn't perform well in a LOT of areas of the PNW. Pretty much all of western Washington and coastal BC and Oregon.....anywhere close to water and that experiences that maritime Mediterranean influence that keeps temperatures cool and offers a lot of fog or moisture. The Timber Press Guide to Gardening in the Pacific Northwest cautions "performance is iffy in foggy, cool summer gardens unless perfectly sited. Prone to spider mites, spruce aphids and Cooley spruce gall aphids."

It might also be significant that there are NO Picea pungens included in the Great Plant Picks, a compilation of plants highly recommended for PNW gardens that is prepared by a selection board of highly experienced wholesale growers (Fran Sharp of Iseli is one), nurserypersons and botanical garden/arboretum curators. Various other spruce species are.