Is this clematis too vigorous? What is it?

18 years ago

Over the last few weeks I have noticed a clematis vine growing at great speed, over various shrubs and about 15 feet up a cedar. As I have some vitacellas planted which could have grown in exactly the area in question I was waiting to see what was working out so well. Today the blooms started (Victoria, BC) and what I have is a small cream clematis...about 1 inch across, no perfume and the foliage is similar to type 2 clems, not vitacellas, as the leaves are somewhat bigger. Sorry I can't post a picture. I tried to search using the Hull site but my description, with height,colour and bloom time brings no success. Given how vigorous this is I would like to know if it will cause a problem in the garden? It is not a plant i have knowingly planted. It is certainly pretty! Any help appreciated,

Judy

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Comments (10)

suzymac
18 years ago
It sounds as if you purchased a mis-marked clematis. It's hard to identify clematis without a picture. There are many vigorous white/cream clematis. Also, the bloom time on yours and the leaves have me stumped for now. If you don't know how to post a picture here, perhaps you can e-mail me a few pictures and I will do my best. I can also pass it along to some clematis friends who might know if it doesn't look familiar to me. Close-ups of the leaves and the flower are helpful as well as a full plant picture.
Suzy
kiwirose
Original Author
18 years ago
Thanks Suzymac. I have emailed you but cannot attach photos while using the forum email link. If you could reply to my email I will send the photos on to you. The clematis has some perfume which I had not picked up this morning. It is smaller, but similar to "Summer Snow " Clematis x fargesioides.The flowers are smaller , with 4, rather than 6 tepals (petals?). I do appreciate your help.

Judy
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It sounds like you are pretty new to gardening overall. If this is true, I would not recommend growing clematis from seed - the seed is hard to find commercially; it is unlikely you will find any seed that will come true to form (the vast majortiy of clems grown are hybrids) and it is not a fast process to develop a vine of any significance from seed. Bob's idea is good - find one or two started plants at your local nursery and go from there. Or select another type of vine. You may be mistaking what is considered to be an "invasive" plant also - most vines (especially annual vines) grow fast and vigorously and since they do grow by wrapping themselves around whatever they can reach, they can appear to overwhelm or even strangle other plants. But that is not what is meant by 'invasive'. You just have to pick the right vine for the right situation.
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No you don't have to prune your pruning group 2's right now..Enjoy those blooms and after it is over blooming then you can prune to induce more vines to emerge from the soil..hopefully..you have already hard pruned your pruning group 3's as they will bloom later on in the season on the new vines they produce...Jeanne
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Since it's always blossomed heavily for years (even though not growing very large, presumably from the shade), and what did grow was lush, whatever the variety is, I assumed it would grow big and with more vigor in the full sun. Soil is good - drains well, amended. It's been getting 1-2" rain water each week - June has been record rain here. I think it might be the "what's nearby" factor. It's on the fence line with the neighbor, who has a lawn service and I have no idea what they're treating on the other side of the fence. Their lawn goes right up to the fence - the clematis is only 2 inches away from the edge of their lawn. I'll just leave it be and see if it does anything in the next year or two. Would be a shame if it languishes there. Even though it didn't grow huge each year, it was always very lush and bountiful with blooms in it's old shady spot. I got "greedy" and wanted more than 2-3' - I wanted the "flower wall" on the fencing. I should have just left it where it's been all these years.
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Clematis doesn't look too good, just moved it, only one stalk 1"
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"Can you name a single clematis vendor who recommends potting up their plant instead of placing in the ground?" No. But that is not very surprising. Why would a vendor suggest a methodology that would indicate that the plants they ship are not mature enough to planted directly in the ground? And TBH, most specialty vendors DO ship out at least 2 year old plants in quart sized or larger containers. However, most clematis authorities - not vendors - do recommend growing on young, small vines for at least a season or two before direct planting. From the ICS: "Packaged clematis, including those from most mail-order sources, are commonly less than two years old and not very strongly rooted. Usually it is better to grow one of these on for a few months in a 1- or 2- gallon pot than to put it straight into the ground. Young clematis do not object to having their root systems confined for a while, whereas if they are abandoned in a big hole at that tender age they may have trouble getting established. Even if your clematis is a better-rooted specimen in the standard gallon pot, you might consider burying it pot and all in the planting hole, lifting it in the Fall when it has done all it can for the year, removing the pot, and setting the plant back in. This lets the root system develop undisturbed, and also gives you a chance to move the clematis to another site, if you've had second thoughts. (Bear in mind that potted clematis may come with the stake fastened to the pot. No matter when you elect to take out the plant, remove the staple first!)" And many, many vendors and clematis authorities promote growing clematis in containers rather than in the ground for all manner of reasons and some - like Raymond Evison - breed clematis specifically intended for that purpose. Linda Beutler, the current ICS president just did a webinar on growing clems in containers and you would need to look hard to find a clematis authority more knowledgeable or experienced than her! You seem very adamant that your way is the only "correct" way to grow clems but almost 50 years of growing them personally and professionally (including time at a clematis specialty nursery) would indicate that is simply not true. And this is easily borne out from a host of other very reputable sources. But I have no interest in arguing this point with you. Feel free to do what ever you want but please don't come into these discussions making these absolute pronouncements that they can only be successfully grown your way. It simply isn't true and there are 100's of growers that can attest to that.
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novice_gardner
18 years ago
Could it be Clematis ternifolia (or Paniculata)? I doubt it becuase its blooming little early. Mine hasnt got any buds yet.

Ajay
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
18 years ago
It is most likely our native clematis, C. ligusticifolia or C. vitalba, which has naturalized here in the PNW - I too have several popping up in my garden and they grow with the speed of light. One last year was back in a corner of my property euphemistically called the "nursery" were I tend to rescued plants and divisions I haven't decided to plant yet. Thinking it was just a recovering clematis, I let it grow. Some 30' later it had nearly smothered everything in its path.

These two are somewhat difficult to distinguish as they both have very rapid, vigorous growth, similar leaf strucure and flowering, but all things considered, vitalba, even as an introduced species, tends to be more prolific. It self seeds freely and is a problem in greenbelts and other natural areas. It may even be listed on our state's noxious weed listing.

My suggestion is to get rid of it ASAP.
kiwirose
Original Author
18 years ago
Thanks for your help,everyone. Gardengal, I think you are right and have confirmed my fear that this plant was too good to be true! I found an image of Vitalba on a gardenimages website and I believe that is what I have. I will remove it this weekend. It certainly has grown at the speed of light.

Judy
suzymac
18 years ago
Judy, I sent you an e-mail, but it looks like you may have just solved the question of the unknown clematis. Good riddance if it's a Vitalba.
Suzy
kiwirose
Original Author
18 years ago
Hi Suzy..I did not get the email.It must have disappeared into the ether somewhere! Too bad it is vitalba..it is quite pretty!

Judy
gardenbug
18 years ago
Is this what is called 'Traveller's Joy'? I removed mine (I hope!) recently, along with dozens of its progeny.
suzymac
18 years ago
I just hope it was a Vitalba, and not a Paul Farges. Did you compare photos with both ?
Suzy
kiwirose
Original Author
18 years ago
Hi Suzy. Yes, Paul Farges has six tepals, this one has 4 and is smaller. They are very similar, but for those two differences.On my plant the central stamens(?) are the same size as the tepals(petals?) thus the tepals do not protude beyond the central stamens. I hope it is not Paul Farges as I would keep it, but it seems like it is not. Does that sound like "travellers joy", Gardenbug? Judy

Is this clematis too vigorous? What is it?

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Is this clematis too vigorous? What is it?

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suzymac

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