Yes, there are rose growers here! I have a few roses that I've had for several years: a very large Mermaid, two Rosa palustris, a Ballerina, and two Sombreuil (Colonial White). My MIL used to have two rugosas that we gave her and that I was going to propagate from, Belle Pointevine and Frau Dagmar Hastrup, but she sprayed them even though I told her not to, and it was all downhill from there. My other roses have been in the ground 1-3 years and include:
Knockout
Madame Joseph Schwartz
Mrs. BR Cant
Duchesse de Brabant
Rosette Delizzy
Ducher
Rosa rugosa alba (6, raised from seed)
Purple Pavement
Climbing Old Blush
Madame Ernest Calvat (was supposed to be Isaac Pereire, and MEC is a guess)
Seedling of MEC
Seedling of Heritage
Seedling of Therese Bugnet
Rosa carolina (3)
Double Delight
Louise Phillippe
Unknown white-flowered climber raised from cutting; original plant behind Glen Lennox shopping center in Chapel Hill

I've rooted cuttings from the teas and chinas and will have to see how they do over the winter.

Left out 2 Renae.

Of the antiques teas, chinas and noisettes thrive in the heat and humidity here. Bourbons, gallicas, mosses and albas don't do as well, although there are exceptions. Liz Druitt wrote a really nice book on growing roses organically in the South and she experimented with every class.

Besides the antiques, the species roses that I have (R. palustris and carolina) have been clean. Polyanthas are supposed to do well in the Southeast. Renae is a climbing polyantha and the foliage was clean and it rebloomed. I've only had it since last summer but I would have thought the heat and humidity we had the latter part of the summer would have been a good test. The old hybrid teas Radiance, Red Radiance, Careless Love and Mrs. Charles Bell are supposed to be great. I'm getting Radiance and the tea Devoniensis this spring. I've heard only good things about those two, I can't wait to try them out.

When did you take your cuttings?

I'm a newbie rose grower...I have about 50 or so, mostly small own root.

Zephrine
Jardins de Bagatelle
Geoff Hamilton
Cherry Parfait
Abraham Darby
Garden Party
Fredrick Mistral
Duchesse de Brabant
Souvenir de la Malmaison
Madame Josef Schwartz
Clotilde Soupert
I'd have to get my list out to name them all...

I really love 'em...
I have had NO luck rooting and really wish I could ....

Kimmy

Alicia, the cutting that I tried to root, I bought off of ebay (my first attempt). I did took some from my own roses probably about June I think. I did the plastic bottle method. They were fine for quite a while,even got some little leaf nubs but then they turned black and moldy. I might try it again this year but I am not sure.

My Renae I purchased from Ashdown roses last April. I don't think she likes it where she is and I may move it.But I am hoping to see a lot more blooms than I did last year.

Tammy

I took cuttings of barely firm softwood from May-August in the morning or early evening, took the outer skin off on one side, dipped in liquid rooting hormone, and stuck in potting mix. I used a pencil to create a hole in the soil first so that the hormone wouldn't be wiped off in the process of sticking the cutting. I also only left a few leaves at the top. You probably know about the above already. Here's the difference: I put the cuttings in shade, no plastic over them or anything. With few leaves left and the humidity of our climate, too much evaporation isn't a problem. The only rose I had trouble rooting at first was R. palustris, but when I took longer cuttings (8-9"), the cuttings rooted just fine. If the plant has not put out new growth before winter the best thing to do is to sink the pot into the earth to overwinter, to avoid disturbing the roots.

I won't be able to tell just how good of a performer Renae is until next year; we planted ours in July or some such ridiculous time, and it handled the transplant fine. It even bloomed at regular intervals, small flushes. I will be interested to see how much it blooms next spring, IF I can keep the deer off of it. I was impressed by the fragrance.

I went to the seminar at Ashdown last spring when we all got to experiment rooting cuttings using zip lock bags. You put some damp potting soil in the bottom of a gallon size zip-lock bag. Dip the cuttings in rooting hormone and put in the soil. Spritz a little moisture to keep the humidity high in the bag and set them in a indirect light place - I put on my carport. You can open or close the bag if they are too moist or mist a little more water if too dry. When you see some roots in the bottom of the bag, you can repot. I ended up with 50% rooting. A drastic improvement over the total failure I had experienced in the past.

We are very lucky to have 2 great own-root nurseries nearby -- Ashdown Roses in Landrum, SC and Roses Unlimited in Laurens, SC. Both have study days that are well worth attending.

As for English-style roses...I like them very much, but some require more TLC than my schedule currently allows. Many of the Old Garden Roses do very well in the Carolinas. And I love daylilies mixed in with the roses - you may want to add some iris also.

Good luck with your roses this year. I'm planning on reworking my oldest bed this year and I hope I can get some of the work done before spring if the moderate temperatures remain.

I have a few roses, mostly teas and chinas. I'm currently enjoying the red autumn foliage on Pink Pet. My best luck with rose cuttings has been to stick hardwood cuttings directly into the rosebed in fall, many are rooted by spring.

My roses are Carefree Sunshine, Knockout (regular and blush, treeform and bush), The Prince, Gene Boerner, Bonica, Marie Pavi, Fourth of July climbing, New Dawn climbing, Joseph's Coat, Don Juan, Angel Face, Nearly Wild (treeform and bush), The Fairy, Zephirine Drouhn, Caldwell Pink, Mrs. B.R. Cant, Sunsprite, Hansa, Therese Bugnet, and La Marne (I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two).

Along with hollyhocks and foxglove, roses are my favorites. I spray regularly, but it doesn't seem like such a chore.

Do any of you wear a heavyduty bio-warfare mask when spraying? Every time I spray, I worry about inhaling those toxins.

Hi, Tammy. Yeah, I'm a rose hag. I'm fairly new to roses so my oldest ones are only 3 years old. I've got a bunch. Let's see, there's Deuil du Dr. Reynaud, Tuscany Superb, Mignonette, Sombreuil, Francis Debreuil, Lagerfeld, Crepuscule, Reine des Violettes,Lady Hillingdon, Our Lady of Guadelupe, Papa Meilland, Sanguinea, Altissimo, Magnifica, Compassion, Georgetown Noisette, Devoniensis, Hot Cocoa, Jean Giono, Henry Nevard, Rose de Rescht, Baron Giraud de L'Ain, Salet, Henri Martin, Pat Austin, The Prince, L.D. Braithwaite, Sophy's Rose, Ludlow Castle, Frederic Mistral, Mirandy, Doorenbos Selection, Reine Victoria, Stanwell Perpetual, Mrs. Jennie Deverman, Outta the Blue, and alot more. Probably about 120 in all. I just don't have the courage to count them all. I must be out of my mind! I have a 100 percent failure rate trying to root cuttings except for Cecily's method. If I stick them in the ground in the fall maybe one or two may root. Anything that goes in a baggie or under a bottle is assured of a quick and painless death. poor things. I like iris, daylilies, salvia and angel's trumpet mixed in with the divas. I gotta say that every one of the roses will get blackspot if I don't spray. Haha, some get it even with spraying. Boy, that's one tough little disease. I bought one of those sprayers on wheels that pumps up just from wheeling it around and it made the job alot easier. It's actually kind of fun. Anyway, yeah, rose hag big time.
Chris

How about a Carolina Rose?
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This is my Carolina Rose (Rosa carolina), also called Carolina Cherokee Rose.

Here is a link that might be useful: more of Annie's roses

Annie your pictures are beautiful. I love the old-fashioned fragrant pink one and the Carolina rose best. How large are the flowers on the one that was supposed to be Fire n'Ice? Do you think it could be Chicago Peace?

Tammy, I will be glad to try and root some roses for you this spring. I have babies in a small greenhouse right now but am not trying any winter cuttings this year. Take a look at my homepage if you'd like.
E-mail me also with where you live. We can get you fixed up with some roses for sure.

Carla

Alicia,

The Rose that looks like a Peace rose is a grandeflora rose. I keep it cut to about 5-6 ft. It has lustrous deep green leaves & large thorns and is semi-deciduous here in Okie. In mild winters, it does not lose many of its leaves and it has bloomed on Christmas several times. The extra-large rosebuds open to 5-inch blooms that just glow in the sunlight like fire. The deep yellow base of the buds change to a fire red feathered into the yellow and then out to solid red edges. The yellow fades to buttery yellow and then to fades to yellowy cream. The deep red softens with age. It blooms well and has long thornless stems so is perfect for bouquets and bud vases.

I just posted more rose photos in my PhotoBucket.

The Carolina Cherokee Rose has a lemony rose fragrance. Very lovely. It and the Heirloom rose and the Damask Rose perfume my entire one-acre yard in May through June.

The Damask rose is a China rose and was the rose once used to make Rose Perfume. It was highly sought after and worth a king's ransom. I make rose water with their petals & Vodka to flavour cakes and cookies sometimes. In the Oriental countries, including India, Rose Water is the flavoring used instead of vanilla. Rose-flavored Sugar cookies and Pound cakes are divine, esp. with Lavender sugar sprinkled on the top and a tall glass of freshly-squeezed Lemonade. I like them with tea, like Earl Grey - hot. (lol)

My beautiful, beautiful perfect in everyway Tiffany roses succombed to sneaky little fat voles, as did my Double Delight and the Scentimental. (grrrr). All three are among the most fragrant Hybrid Roses I've ever smelt of (lol). I encased them with a roofing tarpaper barrier when I planted them and hoped it would help, and so it did for about two years. They just began to really put out and bloom when the voles found a way in, and one by one, had them for lunch.

My digital images do not capture the flower colors correctly, so I won't post some that are really distorted. I can't afford a new camera, so tough luck. Just have to use your imagination or look them up on the internet to find their true colors.

Rooting Roses? For me, it seems to be just dumb luck. I have rooted them in all kinds of mediums and they rooted. Softwood - hardwood...the less I fuss over them, the better they seem to root. Some I have just layed down softwood cuttings and covered them with dirt and they rooted!

For hardwood cuttings, I take 12 inch cuttings, stick them in rooting hormone powder, bury them in clayish soil in the shade. Water once in awhile and the next year they take off and grow. I get 98% success.

I root a lot of my roses. Too poor to buy all the ones I would like to have and keep them healthy too. I like beauty, but I don't want prissy roses that have to be pampered and babied. Oklahoma is just too hard on everything, plants, animals, and people, and the old-time roses can take anything Okie dishes out. But I have a fair amount of other kinds too. If I see one growing in someone's yard, I stop and ask for cuttings. They nearly always ablidge me and sometimes they even dig me a rooted piece. Hey! I look for old abandoned homesteads too. The Fragrant Heirloom Garden rose came from an old abandaned farm near Stillwater.

The Carolina Cherokee Rose came from my Great-Grandparent's old homestead out on the prairie. It was brought to Oklahoma by the Carolina Cherokees in the 1830s, and the roses naturalized. Farmers have dug them out, blasted them out, and sprayed to kill them off and they have all but disappeared from the prairies now. Used to be, the prairies would be ablaze with wild roses of all kinds in the Spring, off times just in time for Decoration Day in May. No one bought flowers in the old days. You just picked wildflowers and layed wild ferns on the graves and placed the wildflowers on top of the ferns. The ferns are all but gone and the flowers have been killed off with herbicides.

(blah, blah, blah...)

Anyway, Great-Gramma loved roses and never turned her nose up to any variety. She also had a little bunch of wild roses and I got a start of it, too. Sweet, sweet nosegays of tiny white rose florets with yellow centers and the sweetest old-time rose smell. Kind of peppery. I love it. It is somewhat invasive, but I found a spot and let them grow all they want. In the Fall, they make beautiful teardrop shaped glossy red Rose hips. You have to pick them as soon as they turn red because the bird love them too. (lol)

I have one Rugosa Rose. It is called WildBerry Breeze or something like that. I forget. Have to look it up. It is getting BIG now and mean. It has really berry fragrant blooms, too. (You can make wine out of the rose petals of a rugosa rose if you have a bushel basket of petals to spare). With all the Rugosa's thorns, it is a really beautiful "mean ting", too. I set my tower birdbath next to it. (a piece of 6-8 inch PVC sewer pipe about 7 feet long, sunk into the ground about a foot, with an old red metal christmas tree stand bowl on top for the bird bath). They love bathing way up off the ground like that. I figured the Rugosa's thorns oughta help keep the cats away too.

There are a few other roses, whites and yellows, but I won't be a bore any longer and go on anymore about it. I go on too long as it is!

I just love flowers though, don't you????

I hope ya'll have a lovely, fragrant day!

~Annie

Here is a link that might be useful: More roses to see

Some of these I mentioned before, but the rest I didn't. Thought I would add their descriptions in case someone on here is as green at growing roses as I am.

Queen Elizabeth - CL (Delicate Pink. Large 4-5 inch flowers. Climbing variety). Delicate fragrance and equisite beauty. In hot dry climate like mine, she does better with some afternoon shade. Her Highness does not like dog peepee, either. Bad dog, bad!)

Angel Face rose- Floribunda (lavender with a rosey blush & outstanding fragrance. Small plant. Can be grown in pots.)

Iceberg - white Floribunda (does really well in partial shade and sheltered from hot, drying winds.)

New Dawn rose -CL - delicate pink (pink flowers look pinker & the plant grows better in partial shade. An outright MONSTER CLIMBER. I have a 12-inch trunk on my 8 year old N.D! It is pulling the poor trellis down!!! "Dawn, go away, I'm no good for you"...)

Red Knight rose - a grandiflora (deep, black-red velvet flowers)

Don Juan - (deep velvety red rose. Born on long stems, perfect for bud vases. Fragrant)

Belle Amour (France) - A very old Alba Rose. (Light coral Pink semi-double petals with yellow centers. Very Hardy. Very fragrant myrrh-like scent. - I listed as the pink Damask rose by mistake - oops!)

Blushing Lucy (England) - An Old Garden rose. (Double Raspberry pink blooms with creamy centers. Deep green leaves. Very Hardy. Rambler or Climber. Very strong heady fragrance. Supposed to be reblooming. Mine blooms from April through July. Wish I could bottle the fragrance. - I listed only as an Old-Heirloom Garden Rose)

Lady Banks rose (climber/rambler)- (tiny double roses born in dense clusters of yellow flowers. Tiny dark green leaves on thornless, arching branches. Hardiness to 32 degrees F. Is not tollerant of extremely cold temps, so I planted mine on the southside of my front porch and it has done very well there. Does not need babying. Disease resistant and no pesky insects. Birds love the tiny, almost unnoticeable rosehips in winter.)

Just Joey - (a coppery-buff-orange Hybrid Tea rose. Deep colored centers, pales to palest orange edges. Has large flowers that bounce in the breeze. just lovely. I planted it for one of my sons. Strong fragrance. One great flourish in May-June, and then doesn't do well the rest of the season, but worth having. Might do better in cooler, wetter climates.)

I would love (drool, drool) to get cuttings of someone's Constance Spry, if someone on here has it. [English shrub rose]. Only blooms once a year but, oh, what a "glorious once" it is!

I have a few others, but cannot recall their names.

When I quit smoking 5 years ago, I decided to start buying roses with the money I would have spent on cigs. I thought that was fair since it was my cig money. Right? Well, my rose money got curtailed within the fortnight. (Grrrrr.....Bummer) What a turkey!

Have a lovely bloomin' day! ~Annie

Nice to know that Angel Face likes to be containerized, Annie. Mine is brand new and I may dig her up come spring. That is one to-die-for lavender, but so susceptible to BS in our area.

My New Dawn will be entering it's fourth year, but just as formidable as yours...and the thorns, ouch. My husband is always repairing that arbor.

I supposedly swore off any more roses but I ordered Devoniensis, Radiance, and Belinda's Dream 2-3 weeks ago. Back on the wagon! (off the wagon?) One of these days I'm also going to get Fortune's Double Yellow, another big thorny monster like Mermaid. I don't know if the thorns are as big as the ones on Mermaid but they're supposed to be a lot of them.

Oh, Pup. You have Joseph's Coat. That is just such a lovely rose if you like the color orange, and I do! I want to get one of those too.
I have been looking through my Spring cataloges and boy am I getting the gardening bug!
Most gardening doesn't usually start here until late March or April. We can sometimes have snow or late freezes in May, but those are rare, but we usually get a cold snap some time in April. But roses, they can go in the ground in February. I wait to plant them in the late February in the watery sign of Pisces, though. If it is very rainy, then I go ahead and plant them in the dry barren sign of Aquarius. I always ask for rose plants for my birthday and Valentine's Day. I would rather have lots of rose plants than a bouquet, any day! I'll have to remind the Fam again that it's rose bushes me wants this year, thank you very much.

Have a rosey day!
~ Annie

Absolutely! I love roses.....have too many and want more!

My Roses (so far!):

Old Blush
Rugosa Rubra
Fru Dagmar Hastrup
Cramoisi Superieur
Camara
Zack
Sally Lowe
Denae
Crepuscule
Blush Noisette
Beauty of Rosemawr
Charleston Graveyard
Tamora
Pat Austin
Rock Hill Peach Tea
Playboy
Claire Matin
Irene Watts (pink Gruss an Aachen)
Homere
Hettie
Clementina Carbonieri
Maggie
Mme. Antoine Bebe
Smith's Parish
Natchitoches Noisette
Archduke Charles
Reines des Violettes
Queen Elizabeth
Molineaux
Winchester Cathedral
Mons. Tillier
Lemarque
South Carolina Noisette
Mount Vernon Purple
The Pilgrim
Queen Nefertiti
Mary Magdalene
Peter Mayle
Benjamin Britton
Field of the Wood
Serrapetalia
Narrow Water
Noella Nabonnand

with William Shakespeare 2000 and the Queen of Sweden on the way!

I just got my first arbor for Christmas....I'm going to let Field of the Wood grow up one side and I'm still trying to decided whether it wiil be Narrow Water or Noella Nabonnand up the other. Any opinions?

Carole,
The idea for the arbor sounds beautiful. I'm not familiar with Noella Nabonnand but I know Narrow Water has a wonderful fragrance.

Hey I'm here in upstate SC growing or trying to grow lots of good smelling big blooming roses. I don't have much experience growing any kind of flowers. This will be my third season. Last year was a rough year my enemies the J.Bs and Mr. Blackspot gave me more trouble than I could handle! I have a few encore azaleias, a few bulbs,two peonys,and about eighty roses and I have already placed orders for more roses for the spring! My new ones ordered are-(Please forgive me I am a poor speller)
2X Don Juan
Granada
Julia Child
Living Easy
Trumpeter
Abraham Darby
Golden Zest
Chrysler Imperial
Falsaff
Black Cherry
Spellbound
Jubilee Celebration
Maria Shriver
Firefighter

I wish I could grow more roses! Alas I have very little full-sun on my property and it's already crammed full. I have a few varieties that are supposed to handle shade and they are doing well, but I don't get the full bursting flushes that I would in sun. 'The Fairy' has bloomed remarkably well all last summer and is still putting out blooms even in the part-shade situation I have her in. What a trooper! I am always at war with myself. I love the woods but I want more sun! -Ais.

I grow about 100 roses, mostly chinas, teas (NOT hybrid teas) noisettes, hybrid musks and a very few really old hybrid teas like The Doctor. I AM ordering Careless Love and Red Radiance for this spring. Modern roses, except for the Knockout roses are too blackspot prone for me, and I do NOT like to spray. Denise

In following up on some of these roses online, I came across a definition for rose "sport." I had always thought of it as a hybrid. Not so.

It's hard to believe that Green Rose would have a sport that is all pink and white. Interesting. I guess we can ALL be looking for them...rare though I'm sure they are!

claire in sanford

Here is a link that might be useful: What is a rose

Simply put a sport is a genetic mutation that appears as a distinct plant. Many plants do this I believe. Hostas come to mind. Lots of the most beautiful hostas are "sports" of another. They are not as stable and often revert. I believe the standard is that is must last 3 generations, though since they can't be propogated true from seed this must mean through 3 propogations. Not that I have researched it, that's just what one of the rose or hosta (can't remember who) people said. -Ais.

Very interesting. I wonder if anyone can cite a couple of noted "sports" ...one that now outshines the original plant.

Those of you who dislike tangential spiels, go no further. Human mutations are mostly negative, aren't they? What if they were not, as in the case of Green Rose and some of these hostas ais speaks of. Like the cloning novel Boys from Brazil, it might be the sportish Girls from the Garden...peace and love, no evil, money grubbing tendencies, just pure light. What a great plot for a sci-fi novel...I'm sure it must already have been done...now iVillage, don't you go sell the idea to Random House!!!

claire in sanford

Warning, digression...
NOt all genetic mutations in humans are bad. Some are beneficial. But it is the bad ones you hear about.
(biting my tongue to not say more)
arhem... ok, onto plants
some of my favorite hostas are sports...
Striptease (don't have but on my "want" list.)
Paradigm (I think it's my favorite)
Pandora's Box (the popular mini)
JuneÂ, ÂPaulÂs GloryÂ, ÂGuacamoleÂ, ÂGold StandardÂ
so lots of them.
As for roses, a lot of the climbers are "sports" of their non-climbing parents.
'New Dawn' is an excellent example. She's a popular sport of 'Dr. Van Fleet'

Also there is 'Awakening', which is a sport of 'New Dawn'
(does that make it a grandsport of 'Dr. Van Fleet'?)
Can I have a tiara for coining a new term? -Ais.

Probably the most famous rose sport of all, Chicago Peace is a sport of Peace. Madame Joseph Schwartz is a sport of Duchesse de Brabant.

Wow, New Dawn and Chicago Peace ARE sports that have made names for themselves. Tiaras all around!

Isn't it amazing that a mutation (ND) would result in a repeat blooming rose. I wonder how these are discovered.

Since some of the roses are starting to bloom thought I'd bump this up. I'm learning a lot from following everyones conversations on this. My Zepherine is in full bloom and and Duchesse de Brabant is starting. Heirloom is also starting to bloom, but it has the dreaded black spot! I had a terrible time with JB's on it last year, so I'm thinking about moving it away to the back.

Wow... great thread! I'm the proud owner of 2 roses, Sunsprite floribunda & Double Delight hybrid tea. I've been wanting to try & take some cuttings... now I'll give it a try. The aphids have really done a number on mine this year, the double delight looks really sad. What kind of measures do ya'll use as far as sprays goes? I really hate using sevin dust, makes the roses look like crap and what's the point of growing them if they're peppered with white powder? Thanks for any advise.

Nancy

Sorry to be negative but Double Delight is famous for its lack of disease resistance. Also Japanese beetles seem to love it more than any other rose. I have heard of people having luck with Bayer (3 in 1?), but others will have to chime in on this since I never spray. I try to grow roses that don't need spraying for disease, like the teas (not hybrid teas), noisettes, chinas, and polyanthas. I have also had good luck with rugosas so far. Rugosas can't tolerate spray anyway. The native species Rosa carolina and palustris have been excellent performers for me, as well as the climber Mermaid. There are excellent on-line nurseries that supply roses like this: Antique Roses Emporium, Roses Unlimited, Chamblees, Ashdown, and the Uncommon Rose.

Ha, I have to add, I used to have Double Delight, but canker got it this winter. DH picked out the rose when we went to Witherspoon. The display garden at Witherspoon was in full bloom at the time and looked incredible.

I have Blaze growing up one side of my back porch and Golden Showers climbing up the other. It is absolutely gorgeous! I also just planted a St. Joseph last weekend and can't wait to see it bloom!

Aphids are giving me a hard time, but not too much Black Spot so far. I bought a bottle of the Bayer All-In-One, but haven't used it yet. Has anyone had any success or bad luck with that?

Thanks! Shannon

Well, I've been a bit discouraged about growing roses since I moved back to the south. In CA I had magnificent ones, but if you think black spot is the pits, try the orange version they battle out there.

Now roses are starting to call my name again and on a recent visit to Charleston I spotted one I would LOVE to have. Anyone have any idea what it might be? The flowers (about 2 1/2 inches across) were palest pink - more creamy white with just a blush. And they opened out almost flat (old fashioned looking) with lots of petals in the middle. The canes were quite long on some of them we saw and were climbing/leaning over garden walls. The most amazing thing, though, was the fragrance! Fantastic!
I would dearly love to have one of these to grow over a covered wooden swing I have in my garden. I can only imagine sitting there surrounded by that delicious scent!

Two guesses: climbing Clotilde Soupert and Souvenir de la Malmaison.

Here is a link that may be useful: Souvenir de la Malmaison at helpmefind.com

Wow, Alicia...either of those looks very close! But the Souvenir description mentions blooms 5"!! The ones I saw were nowhere near that big - I'd say 2.5" at best. 5" roses! My goodness! Wouldn't that be a show!

Both descriptions mention that the roses have a tendency to ball in humid weather. Is that typical of all these old fashioned, cabbagy type roses? That's not something I had to contend with in CA, for sure!

Thanks for your help and expertise, Alicia.

Some roses do have more of a tendency to ball than others; I think the more petals (and Clotilde Soupert is packed), the higher the likelihood that the flower will ball.

Have you posted on the Antique Roses forum also? There are SC gardeners (and others) on there who can help.

here is a nice thread on rose propagation.