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Tree establishment and deer

15 years ago

I came across this web site,thought some of you might find interesting.http://www.atthecreation.com/WOODS/CEDAR/_DEER.CEDAR.html

lp

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Comments (7)

norcalconifers
15 years ago
The freezer is my favorite place for deer.
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tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
15 years ago
Here's a clicky thing...

I just love venison slim jims.

tj

Here is a link that might be useful: Deer, oh deer
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Miscindy, In addition to many suggestions above, I suggest you read as many previous posts relevant to what you wan to know. Many questions were already asked and answered on this forum. Simply google topics you want to know such as "gardenweb forums, disease resistant apple trees, "gardenweb forums, peach tree problems", etc. I've found growing apple is a lot easier than peach. There are a number of disease resistant apple varieties that people on this forum like such William's Pride, Pristine, Liberty, Enterprise. Can't say the same thing with peach. To me, Asian pears are also easy. It bears fruit in 3-4 yrs, a lot faster than European pears. As a beginner, you may want to start with easier-to- manage fruit tree like apple (or pear) so you won't be discouraged. There is a lot to learn. As long as you are willing to learn and be patient, you'll be successful. People here usally recommend buying bare root trees from reputable on-line nurseries. (google old posts, you'll find lots of them). When you start with planting disease resistant fruit tree varieties suitable for your zone and climate, you win half the battle already. Good luck.
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First, look at my tools in the picture. I start very far outside with the cultivating fork and work inside with it just to remove the soil to the point where serious root begins. The idea is to find the largest roots without damaging them too much. A hoe can also be useful for this part. After removing soil to first roots up to the trunk I go back outside as far as 3' from the trunk and begin aggressively chopping soil with the cultivating fork. Then I use the conventional shovel making cuts more or less horizontal to the flow of the roots so I can loosen the soil without doing too much damage to the roots. I gradually find the largest roots this way and free them up gradually using the fork and the shovel. I also begin using the solid metal King of Spades spade also going horizontally at first to minimize damage. The idea is to pull away soil without tearing too much root. So yes, I start on the outside and work my way in. The soil is always quite moist here in fall and spring so I don't have to water at any point. I never water transplanted plants in in my nursery or when making installations with dormant plants. I have no fear of air pockets, whatever the lit has to say. I've seen fresh root grow right through open space in the soil. As long as the humidity is about 100% why shouldn't it? The smaller trees that I move after growing for a couple of years are always very crowded as I have them in a fenced area tightly spaced (too tightly, actually). It still is not hard to move them without damaging a lot of root although it can be claustrophobic. I've rarely moved older trees that are growing closely together but you can only do the best you can and the method would be the same. I tip the tree as it begins to loosen- but gentle enough not to tear unfreed root, getting closer and closer to the trunk. Most of the final work is with the spade but loose soil is removed with the regular shovel and fork as I go. I should have my wife come out and take pictures the next time me or my helper moves a big tree to give you better images of the process.
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Comments (2)
here are your pix ..... in my yard .. the fact that the dominant bud does not break dormancy .. is blamed on robins.. or large birds that land on the highest knob all winter long... best explanation we could come up with ... of my 400 conifers... i would say at least 100 suffer such each year .... especially picea pungens .... you can be proactive.. but frankly ... i have fallen back to letting the conifer fix itself next spring.. and if two go up.. take one off later ... or if you are the experimenting type .... fix one with a bamboo stake.. secured on the trunk at a couple places ... with some stout string.. easier to tie and untie .... and tie the rightmost on the top picture up to the stake.. just to give it a suggestion of being dominant... do NOT force it... retie every few weeks until it is nearly upright ... and ignore the other tree ... and report back in spring if your efforts were worth the labor ... i just don't see typical deer bites .. or have ever known a deer to pick off just the top bud ... i doubt you will have to do much of anything to it ... good luck ken PS: you learn to let the tree fend for itself .. when you no longer can reach up there safely on the top rung of your ladder.. after that.. trees take care of themselves rather well ... your only problem.. is that you can still look down at it.. lol
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Ive heard of people planting the trees deep when young to force them to grow on own roots but I’ve seen what can happen if they do not root they will end up rotting and dying Bury the base of the scion gradually over a period of years instead of all at once.
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wisconsitom
15 years ago
Thanks much, 1p! Great read. Contained within which is a scenario that I fear with my own cedar regeneration plot, that being the extreme browsing of previously unbrowsed plants. Though it hasn't happened yet, that's something I feel like I'm going to discover some day. There is very good natural recruitment of this tree going on there presently though, so who knows? Anyway, I could talk about this all night, but appreciate the link.

+oM
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pineresin
15 years ago
Interesting article, but the trees they're dealing with are not cedars as stated. If they get such a basic fact wrong, can you trust them on anything else they say?

Resin
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lpptz5b
Original Author
15 years ago
This is the same senario I find myself in.I have about 10 acres that was covered with American arborvitae,to restore the whole area in one shot is beyond my financial ability.I have planted a lot of trees and learned the hard way that you can't fool a deers nose,they will find food.In the last five years I don't plant arborvitae unless I protect w/metal cage.But one thing that Mr Wagner did that I will try,is encircle a cluster of seedlings to keep the cost down.
I wish the deer population was not this high,but I don't think that would matter much seeing that thai is a wintering area and the deer per square mile will increase 10X on certain winters.
Another thing I'm trying for the first time is pruning the lower branch's from trees that are past the danger of damage by deer,giving them a food source other than the seedlings.
I will most likely still be working on this untill I can't dig a hole any more.

lp
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wisconsitom
15 years ago
Resin, this is one time where I'm going to have to disagree with the main thrust of your argument: That the authors of this report, in calling the plants they're working with "cedars" have somehow invalidated themselves. I am certain they know that the plant they're working with is Thuja occidentalis. That they call it cedar is simply submitting to the fact that that is what this tree is known as in these parts. State foresters, commercial forestry consultants, hunters, what-have-you, they all call this tree cedar, and if it is a technical paper, than yes, oftentimes, the true botanical identity is stated. It would be a different matter if members of the cedrus genus were present here, but they are not, so no real confusion results. Thuja is not a common name, so not commonly used. Arbor vitae, which is a common name, would tend to conjur images more toward the many cultivars of this plant available in the landscaping trade, which is well outside of the scope of this project, and which are, strictly speaking, different from the species in important ways. Northern white cedar is a long-accepted common name for this species. It means only one kind of tree. Cedar is simply a shortened form of this name.

1p, you're fighting the good fight. You and I will both be manning different flanks of this battle to the bitter end ;^)

+oM
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Embothrium
15 years ago
Common names have no technical application. That's why we have technical names. Which common names are in use is a part of factual reality, so to deny that a region calls a particular Thuja a cedar would be the error - rather than recognizing and employing that common name, which is not a factual error. That's what's annoying, when a treatment of a tree leaves out a common name employed by perhaps millions - or uses a common name having seldom if ever been used in the region for which the piece has been written.

Official common name lists etc. appear to be compiled by those who aren't aware of the extent and variety of common names that are in use or have been used outside of certain circles. It reminds me of the idea that only the native trees of a certain area will be represented by champion specimens or otherwise worth noting.
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