Harvestman,

It looks like the link you posed is to an email and not the Picasa album. To post a link to the album:

1.) Click "Photos" in the bar along the top of the screen.
2.) Click "My Photos" tab, just under the top bar
3.) Click "Edit visibility" underneath the Picasa icon
4.) Select "public" for the album you want to share and click "Done"
5.) Right-click the name of the album and select "Copy Link Address"

You can then post this. My apologies if this was too much detail.

Bob

Bob, funny how I can pull the photos from this site. I am nearly computer illiterate but I will try your method later today. Thanks

Harvestman, the reason it works for you is that it is your email account. If you logout or try from another computer (which doesn't remember your password), you should be able to replicate the issue. I had a similar type of experience when I first posted a picture.

Bob

Harvestman I agree with all you have said in your post. All the extra trouble required to dig trees already established in the ground, bare root them and replant them on your site, only gives fruit sooner. Bare root grafted seedlings are available and are easy to plant and establish in your soil, and you will have the joy of being able to determine the size and growth style of your choosing. The trade off is waiting a little longer for your first fruit. At my age 83, I can wait. Al

I have often considered trying to dig some well shaped feral apples in this size range and then top working them, just to get a big vigorous root.

Harvest man, are you digging these trees from previously prepared beds/rows? I have never actually tried it in part because I worried all the competing sod, weeds, and shrubs would make isolating the tree with low damage difficult.
Where do you start? Working down from the trunk and out? or from a cut perimeter in?

Peaches in particular respond especially well to transplanting bare root when about 2" caliber trees are moved with lots of root. Fruit can be realized the first season."

Hman,

Interesting thread. How much fruit can be harvested first season with this method?

https://picasaweb.google.com/109925605636870079811

Hopefully this will get you to the photos.

I get at most a basket of fruit. Bas Van Ende wrote an article about this approach to speeding up commercial production. The link is below.

http://www.goodfruit.com/Good-Fruit-Grower/August-2009/Plant-the-canopy-dont-grow-it/

Thanks Harvestman. Those are nice photos and huge roots. I've definitely never gotten anything like that from mail order. Of course, even if I did get one like that, planting it would be tough. I've been focusing on digging bigger holes (roughly 2.5' diameter, 2.5' deep), but I have a hard time imagining hand-digging a hole with a 6-7 foot radius.

Bob

Harvestman:

If you paste your URL into the box below where I'm typing this message you get a direct link. Then we don't all have to do it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Alan's bare root apple pictures

I just dug up and potted 6 Shangri La mulberry seedlings that birds helped start in the yard this year. Mulberries ability to move in, quickly get big, and take over a spot....., well it's comparable to Godzilla arriving in Tokyo and taking over. I wish that all good fruit trees were that competitive. Whichever genes keep mulberries in overdrive would sure be helpful if they could do the same for other fruit producing trees. Wishful thinking.

Bob, it's not necessary to dig holes that deep. The tree you see here had all this root in the top 12" of soil. The danger of too deep holes is sinking that occurs after the planting. Recommendations now are to plant trees in wide shallow holes, only deep enough to fit the roots and have tree at proper level. In all but light soils (without competing roots) very wide planting holes are useful.

The pictures are great. Was the root system balanced around the trunk? In the picture it almost looks like they were all on one side with a hook right at the flare...or is that just gravity doing it's thing?

I for one would be interested in a brief overview of the technique you use to free the larger trees from the soil. As well as any notable problems you have encountered doing this over the years.

If it not too presumptuous to ask, what sort of price range to do set on trees of this caliper dug with their entire root system, not including installation?
Obviously there is extra labor in pulling them (and packing transport I assume.AS well as the addition time spent training and caring for them, and the space in your nursery they consume while sizing up...3-4 years?

I know if someone near me had been offering trees like these I would have been sorely tempted to get some when we first moved...to help with the patience while all the whips got growing!

You are correct about this particular tree, which has a funny crook- one reason I kept it for myself as a wildlife tree and squirrel target site. The roots were mostly running to one side, but in replanting it I pulled some around and held in place with rocks before covering with soil. The tree will grow perfectly straight by virtue of how I replanted it. The rootsystem will be balanced as well.

This tree is not a good example of what I sell as the top is not fully branched. I don't sell trees much to do-it-yourselfers and usually do the installations, which means people are paying for a lot more than the tree. I also do my business in one of the wealthiest areas in the world. My 2" to 2.5" caliber trees run for around $250 delivered whether they are bare root, in a 15 gallon pot or in soil held by a fabric bag. Installation runs $100 + and includes 5sq. ft forest compost dressing, wood chip mulch and deer protection.

This may seem high to people in other parts of the country but is much less than area nurseries charge for a brainless installation of a poor selection fruit tree.

I do not sell mulberries this way and I'm developing a special system for them where I put them in fabric (Whitcomb) bags but only fill them half way to keep the weight down relative to the diameter of the bag. I'll fill up the bags most of the rest of the way with a very light mulch.

This is a great way to turn a couple of acres into a very profitable little specialized tree farm.

Some day I'll write a how-to book about it. By then I'll have my methodology sorted out.

Those prices sound very reasonable to me...a good value for sure given the amount of work and experience that goes into it.
I only know one orchard around here that sells bearing age trees. They are nice, balled and burlappped dug with mechanical spade. He charges $100 per caliper inch if I recall. Before delivery. We bought one tree from him as landscape up near the house.
The tree settled in nicely but I have no doubt a large fully dug bare root version would have recovered faster.

I think you should be charging a premium on those trees over potted or B+B, but I am sure you know your business.

I'm often told I under charge and never accused of gouging, to my face, anyway. However a nearby commercial nursery (contractors only) sells their BB'd apples and Bartlett pears (that's the only one commercial nurseries tend to carry) of similar and larger size for less money. My prices to non-contractors will probably go up a bit next year. This is the first year where I've sold almost all of my available stock and I get a second run in spring.

Between pruning, spraying other peoples orchards and selling trees I make a pretty decent living by my standards. Nursery maintenance isn't too time consuming. I spread newspaper and mulch each tree every spring and put down a couple of sprays. I also set out a couple hundred new trees.

Hman, did you see Robs question above about how you dig up the trees? I have been digging up a couple dozen 8-year-old trees, some to move and some to give away, and am finding I can dig up an M9 or similar apple pretty easily, but any full-size or close to stock is very difficult to dig up with any roots at all. These trees are close planted and have been heavily pruned so they are not all that big even though they are 8 year olds.

Scott

First, look at my tools in the picture. I start very far outside with the cultivating fork and work inside with it just to remove the soil to the point where serious root begins. The idea is to find the largest roots without damaging them too much. A hoe can also be useful for this part.

After removing soil to first roots up to the trunk I go back outside as far as 3' from the trunk and begin aggressively chopping soil with the cultivating fork. Then I use the conventional shovel making cuts more or less horizontal to the flow of the roots so I can loosen the soil without doing too much damage to the roots. I gradually find the largest roots this way and free them up gradually using the fork and the shovel. I also begin using the solid metal King of Spades spade also going horizontally at first to minimize damage. The idea is to pull away soil without tearing too much root.

So yes, I start on the outside and work my way in. The soil is always quite moist here in fall and spring so I don't have to water at any point. I never water transplanted plants in in my nursery or when making installations with dormant plants. I have no fear of air pockets, whatever the lit has to say. I've seen fresh root grow right through open space in the soil. As long as the humidity is about 100% why shouldn't it?

The smaller trees that I move after growing for a couple of years are always very crowded as I have them in a fenced area tightly spaced (too tightly, actually). It still is not hard to move them without damaging a lot of root although it can be claustrophobic. I've rarely moved older trees that are growing closely together but you can only do the best you can and the method would be the same.

I tip the tree as it begins to loosen- but gentle enough not to tear unfreed root, getting closer and closer to the trunk. Most of the final work is with the spade but loose soil is removed with the regular shovel and fork as I go.

I should have my wife come out and take pictures the next time me or my helper moves a big tree to give you better images of the process.

I finally looked at the picture .. wow thats a heck of a lot of root! I haven't tried using a fork, just a shovel, and its hard to avoid damaging the roots with a shovel. I am going to try working out a tree with my fork and see if I can have better luck. Around this time of year the soil is constantly moist and that makes it pretty easy if you can just figure out where the roots are.

Scott

That technique makes sense, thanks for passing it along. What is the largest tree you have moved by digging out?
How much damage will you let a root sustain before just pruning it off?
I would think one advantage of this nursery model is that "left overs" just gain value. But I suppose you need customers willing to wait on dormancy.

The orchard I mentioned earlier always has some beautiful huge 6" B+B apple that sit there all summer and even into next spring some seasons. Seems like a lot of stress and possible loss of valuable stock to me; but I guess it allows him to have a spade in to dig in spring and then have big trees to sell at anytime.

A spade has a flat blade so it's easier to get it in between roots without severing them. A rounded typical shovel blade will cut root no matter what angle you put it in.

I should mention that my soil is relatively easy to work- not a sand but a silt loam, without much structure. It's the kind of soil that barely makes mud and can be worked even in the rain. This soil breaks free from the roots rather easily so it's easier to pull the roots up without breaking them that with many soils.

No wonder I can't kill those things. Looks like I need to salt the earth 100' in all directions.