Linda,

You should post more!

#1 - Aloe cryptopoda?

#2 - that's an Echeveria, but I don't know the species

#3 - I don't think so. I think it might be the much-less-grown Aloe squarrosa

I'll bet if you repot the Aloe it will flower for you sooner.

#3 isn't A. squarrosa. The leaves are the wrong shape (they don't recurve) and the flowers aren't right either... My guess would be Aloe nobilis.

Sorry, can't offer any help on the others.

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Aloe squarrosa

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Aloe nobilis (this one gets a *ton* of sun, thus the deep red).

Josh,

Are you sure? Look at the examples you provided. Her second Aloe looks a lot more like A. squarrosa than A. nobilis. Plus, remember that your A. nobilis is stressed and confined and isn't growing like one in the ground (or one with lots of root room) would.

But I could be very incorrect - it just seems that the examples you provided disprove your points about the ID.

OTOH, my Aloe experience has been limited these last few years and therefore what I wrote is compromised by the possibility of ignorance/forgetfulness suffused with recent inexperience.

I hear you Jeff. I'll expound a little on what I see as the relevant points:

Flowers: A. squarrosa has pinkish-orange buds with prominent green tips, A. nobilis has darker red buds with purplish tips.

Leaves: A. squarrosa has recurved leaves. That is, they arc back towards the ground in a very prominent way. To me, that absolutely rules out A. squarrosa.

Finally, A. squarrosa is rare in cultivation and generally if you have it, you *know* you have it. Unfortunately, there are many places that mislabel A. juvenna as A. squarrosa, which fuels confusion and helps maintain the notion that A. squarrosa would ever show up in a big-box store or run of the mill nursery.

I would gladly accept that Linda's plant isn't A. nobilis, but I am certain it isn't A. sqaurrosa either.

Cactus, what did you mean when you told Linda you bet it'll flower sooner if she repots?
A larger pot will promote flowering? Toni

Josh,

I should have admitted up front that it was a bit of a WAG (as am I) for me to suggest A. squarrosa. I'm not nearly familiar enough with the species (it took me 5 years to find one, and only one) to say for sure, but I am pretty sure it's not either A. juvenna or A. nobilis. You're absolutely correct about its cultivation - there isn't enough of it. What else do you think it might be?

Toni,

What did I mean? That's in the past, and with my CRS I'm not sure, but an underpotted plant is less likely to grow. If it's less likely to grow, it stands to follow (at least in my head) that it's less likely to mature, which means maturity being delayed equals flowering delayed. So, yes, a larger pot, appropriately sized for the root ball of the Aloe, will promote flowering (because it promotes growth and prosperity).

Thanks for the suggestions!

Jeff, based on my google search,#1 does look a lot like Aloe cryptopoda, which I've never even heard of before. It has nice flowers too! I've thought the same thing, my plant may not flower until I give it more space. I hope to repot it soon! Some plants, like hoyas, seem to flower more when their roots are confined, but others (all aloes?) need more space..

If #2 is an echeveria, I would love to know which species. The reason I suspected it was an aeonium is because the leaves are serrated, something I see on many of my aeoniums but not on any of my echeverias.

Josh, I don't think it's A. nobilis either as I have that plant too. Thanks for posting your pics. I can see for sure that it isn't A. squarossa. Do you (or anyone) think it could be juvenna then? If not, why not?

My Aloe nobilis (another one that needs a new pot!):

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Linda,

When I raised lots of the rascals down in San Diego, I know that they liked to grow, so at least one a year they were repotted.

Aloe cryptopoda has another name (Aloe lutescens??) and perhaps two. It's the fine-black-shortened teeth and the thin, strappy, upturned leaves that I thought made it to be A.c.

I like my Aloes colourful (read stressed) and that Echinacea's nice, too!

Alright, A. nobilis was a poor guess, I admit. I don't have a better suggestion at the moment though. When I get home I'll look through a few books and see what I can come up with.

Your plant is too big to be A. juvenna, which have stem/leaves no bigger than about 3" and have a more compact, stubby appearance.

And for what it is worth, my name is Josiah. I don't take offense or anything at being called Josh, but I do like my name and since so many of you are kind enough to use it instead of my login, I figure you might as well use the right one! ;-)

My pardon, Josiah. I was suffering from a vowel obstruction, I guess, using 'Josh'.

Linda, serrated (dentate) edges are a characteristic of Aeoniums, not Echeveria or related plants. So that plant must be an Aeonium. It looks a lot like one I have called 'Sunbeam' for the light green variegation at the center of the leaves.

The nobilis/squarrosa controversy could be settled by the size of the rosettes. Nobilis grows much larger, about 3-5 inches. Squarrosa rosettes are around 2 inches. Mine came as Aloe zanzibarica.

However, I don't think the plant in question is either species. My bet is on juvenna, which has rosettes a little larger than squarrosa.

Jo, beautiful clump of nobilis! Mine looked like that last year, at least until I put it into the ground in a spot getting more shade where it turned green again:

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Brad

Jeff, seriously, no apology needed. Whats an ia between friends?

Brad: I think that juvenna has the smallest rosettes of the three species we've been discussing. Certainly of the three plants I have labeled as each of these three species that I grow, juvenna is the smallest. Now, the actual pictures I've seen of squarrosa on Socotra do look much smaller than what I grow, but I would suspect a lot of that has to do with growing conditions. That is, dry, rock cliffs on Socotra vs. the relative luxury that a pot in SoCal affords. Do you grow squarrosa? I've yet to come across anyone else growing this species who has pictures to post. And by the way, I'd gladly trade my potted nobilis for your garden space! ;-)

Alright, took a few photos and even busted out the ruler. I admit, Linda's plant does look more like A. squrrosa than A. nobilis. Not that I think her plant *is* squarrosa, just that I really was wrong to think A. nobilis... :-)

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My IDs, from left to right, are Aloe juvenna, A. squarrosa, and A. nobilis.

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A. juvenna, 2.25" spread

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A. squarrosa, 5.5" spread

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A. nobilis, 5" spread

Well, this is interesting. What I thought was squarrosa must be juvenna. It is a very compact plant like yours, but did not come with a name. Thanks for the correction, Josiah.

Brad

Dear Josiah,

I am in full agreement with your IDs - it's not often one can get visual IDs with the degree of finality that you've offered us.

I had a number of A. juvenna clones - they always grew tight, as your photo illustrates. They never had the floppy-like leaves that A. squarrosa does.

I tell you what gave me fits IDing - A. brevifolia and A. nobilis. I could never, ever keep them straight.

In all honesty, I once had my plants labeled exactly wrong too! I had A. juvenna labeled as A. squarrosa and A. nobilis labeled as A. brevifolia! The first I figured out was A. brevifolia when I actually saw one in person at a botanical garden and discovered they have a bluish cast! Definitely removed the confusion between those!

On the other hand, I had proudly labeled my A. juvenna as A. squarrosa for years. Once I really got interested in Socotra I started trying to amass a collection of endemic succulents from there. I thought I had a nice little head start with A. squrrosa, but once I read some authoritative books on the place, I quickly discovered the Aloe I had wasn't from anywhere near Socotra! Arid Lands pulled through with a nice size plant though! The whole experience taught me to be extremely skeptical about what resources I rely on. *Everyone* has A. squarrosa wrong, 16 of 21 Google image search results are wrong, even Succulents: An Illustrated Dictionary has it wrong!

This whole juvenna/squarrosa things has played out on a few forums too. Check out this one where the man himself, Kelly Griffin busts out some photos of truly jaw-dropping plants in habitat to set things straight.

Linda: I haven't come across anything in the books I have about Aloes, but then, I don't really have an extensive set of resources for Aloes... I did want to say that I really like your pot of A. noblilis. If it were mine, I would leave it be, but then again, I'm kind of into that tortured look, so maybe my advice isn't the best to follow! :-)

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful!

Jeff, thanks for the Aloe name. IÂm thinking it might be A. lutescens and not cryptopoda now, but need to find out a bit more about both. I like colour on my Aloes too.

Brad, thatÂs a beautiful photo of your garden and Aloe nobilis in flower. I suspected my plant was an Aeonium, so thanks for the confirmation. I canÂt find any photos of ÂSunbeam online but will look out for it. I really like my plant a lot, and the photo of it really isn't as flattering as it could be. It's a stunning looking plant.
Josiah, IÂm sorry about getting your name wrong! And thanks for taking the time to post the aloes (and the UBC link) Â very interesting. Certainly, my plant doesnÂt seem to be juvenna.

Thanks for the compliment on the A. nobilis, I think. :-) Are you saying that I torture my plants? ;-) Actually, itÂs too late, all this aloe discussion inspired me to re-pot both aloes yesterday! IÂm hoping my plant will still stay red with strong sun. I really want to see it flower and I donÂt think that will happen without some extra root space.

IÂve mixed up brevifolia and nobilis before too. The bluish cast on brevifolia is the keyÂThis one has never flowered for me:
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One last photo (close-up) of the Aloe discussed above:

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And dare I ask, which species is this? This aloe doesnÂt look so great because it didnÂt like the full sun much, although itÂs possible it was just too stressed in the small pot it was in earlier in the summer. ItÂs now in a larger pot, exposed to a bit less sun, and is starting to look better.
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Linda, it was definately a compliment. I just like they way stressed plants look. They always have more color and texture, and frankly, have a more a "authentic" appearance than coddled plants. Obviously it is a fine line to walk as you don't want to kill the plant or severely stunt it...

As to A. cryptopoda vs A. lutescens, you will need flowers to be sure of either. They are both very similar and variable, so trying to decide which is which without flowers is sort of hopeless. However, at least here in SoCal, A. lutescens is more common than A. cryptopoda, so from a statistical point of view, I'd guess you have A. lutescens. Then again, maybe where you are A. cryptopoda is the common one...

As to the last one, I do have an ID for you (I have the same species, although much less mature) but I'll have to check the tag when I get home as I don't recall the name.

Looks like a gasteria/aloe cross, doesn't it?

Linda,

FWIW, I too like the stressed look - they're so much more colourful and native-like. And since I was answering another question at this Forum with the link below, I thought you might want to know about it, too. Yes, there is such a place, a place where something always happens.

Here is a link that might be useful: Institute for Aloe Studies

Linda: My plant is labeled as Gasteraloe 'Helen Haage'. It looks just like yours, except the leaves of mine aren't as plump.

Jeff: Sharp as a tack spine you are! :-)

Josiah, I took it as a compliment and was just teasing. I guess it didn't come across the way I intended - it can be tricky conveying tone/intent on forums. I agree with you and Jeff, I really like the stressed look and grow most of my plants pretty hard. As you say, though, it's a fine line. I like seeing succulents flower too, not just because the flowers looks nice but I love watching the hummers feeding on the nectar.

Thanks for the additional info on A. lutescens. The reason I was leaning toward it was because I read in a few places that crytopoda is usually solitary whereas my plant is not. Hopefully, it will flower next year, now that it is in a larger pot, and then I will know what it is. Thanks too for checking your Gasteraloe 'Helen Haage". I would never have guessed that it's a gasteraloe as it looks so much different than the few gasteraloes I have, which are much larger, chunkier, and mostly green.

Jeff, I'm impressed! Thanks for suggesting a gasteraloe in the first place. :-)And thanks so much for the link!

Find the hummer: :-)

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