Where to plant clematis relative to climbing rose?

15 years ago

I have a David Austin rose, 'Pilgrim', trained over an arbor and would like to plant my clematis, 'Haku Ookan', to intertwine with the rose. I've read so much about what good companions these plants are, but don't recall seeing anything on how close/far their roots should be.

The base of the rose is about one foot away from the arbor and the picket fence attached to it. Austin claims their roses, when trained as climbers, tend to be more full at the bottom than other climbers, but I'm not seeing that yet.

So, the debate I'm having with myself is whether to plant the clematis with the root system between the rose and the arbor, thereby shading the roots, and letting it come up through the base of the canes (though the base may become difficult to access in time) ... or plant it on the opposite side of the rose and just hope everything fills out in time.

As you might guess, I've never done this before, so really appreciate any advice.

BTW, this is one of four clemmies I bought from Koi Gardens after reading about their sale; potted them up in 1-gallon pots which I sunk into the ground for the winter. They're coming up beautifully this spring, and Dawn is already sporting fat flower buds!

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Comments (4)

kentstar
15 years ago
Hey fellow gardenstater! I live in OH now but grew up in NJ near Asbury Park! lol
To help with you question...
I am trying to do the same thing here with a new clem Henryi, and several others and my John Cabot rose which is coming in a couple of weeks.
I am also constrained by space because they are against a trellis.
Since 'Haku Ookan' is a group 2 clem you might want to consider the two side by side? Think in terms of not only water and nutrient requirements, but which way will be easier to prune both? Clems don't really need to have "their roots shaded" as what they really need is Moisture! The roots shaded by mulch or low growing plants (or the rose for that matter) is only there to keep the clem and rose moist. If you can't plant them side by side I would tend to think in terms of planting the clem in front of the rose.
Of course, it is all up to you. Our gardens should be done the way WE like them :)
I think at least a ft is ok for the spacing if you are training it to go through the rose. But be careful digging as all roots are easily sliced through.
Mine are also going to be about a ft away from eachother.
Here is a pic of the general plan:
(there is actually a lot more space than what is shown as the trellis is 20 ft long and 6 ft high.) But I'm not that great at drawing lol.

{{gwi:583181}}
agardenstateof_mind
Original Author
15 years ago
So do you miss ol' Jersey? It's funny, I'm just a few minutes from Asbury Park in Shark River Hills. Grew up in northern NJ, but wound up down here when DH was transferred. It's flatter than I like, but I did find a little hill to live on, just a few blocks from a tidal marsh, so it is beautiful and a great spot for birding, and I do love the growing seasons here.

Thank you for your advice on the placement. I may just put the clematis in front and slightly to the left of the rose (the side away from the arbor), just so I don't tear my hands and arms up while trying to plant (and subsequently prune) it. I'll probably dig the planting hole with trowel and hands to avoid, as much as possible, damaging the roots of the rose. It would have been better to plant them simultanously, as you are doing.

That is going to be some awesome display you have when it's all done! I hope we'll see pictures.

And I agree, our gardens should be the way we like them ... if others enjoy them, too, that's icing on the cake!
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bboy, all I can say is 'Wow'- and 'thankyou' I just googled the images and they definitely would be gorgeous together. OMG, I love that rose and it would be stunning with Jackmanni. Okay, so that is my choice. That didn't take long did it? lol I need to know how many of each I should purchase come spring. So, can you please tell me how far apart I should plant them?
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I wonder if one of the old Albas might work better as a climber for this zone. You'd need one of the taller ones, like 'Alba Maxima' or one of similar habit. If you don't have to pull it down and cover it for Winter, you can keep a Type-2 clematis in there. Here, I notice that the clematis get kinda brittle by the end of Autumn, and moving them around will likely end up in snapping them. By Spring, parts that look dead will surprise me and leaf out, and I don't snip off dead tips until I KNOW they're dead -- by snipping off anything above the highest set of leaves that develop. With the Type-3s, you wouldn't have to worry about snapped stems if you're pulling down the rose to cover it for Winter -- you just snip them down low and let them start all over again. Of course, you don't HAVE to do that, if you want it going up a tree or something. But if you do this to a Type-2, you'll lose the early wave of blooms in Spring, which come on growth that went through Winter. I've ordered many plants from Bluestone Perennials and have yet to be disappointed. As long as you understand that they come small, you'll likely feel the same. But they're bursting out of their pots when they arrive, and really take off well for me. I try to take advantage of their frequent sales, including their 50-50 Fridays through Winter. Another source for perennials I've frequented is Joy Creek Nursery. They don't seem to have sales, but their normal prices are pretty good -- higher than Bluestone's sale prices, but lower than their regular prices. So when I'm shopping for perennials, I usually start with Bluestone sales, then go to Joy Creek for anything else I wanted but didn't get. Brushwood Nursery is my go-to for clematis -- and honeysuckle and passion flowers, whenever I get around to getting some. :-) ~Christopher
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Oh, dear! Having that stuff caught on rose bushes would be a problem. Getting it off the thorns without ruining the blossoms would be tedious. She must have used the nylon netting that is light at a feather and would easily blow around if not attached to something. I've never had any trouble with the plastic type blowing around. We used the big construction staples and staple gun to attach it to the trees. Since the chickadee incident I keep a close watch, and have never seen another bird get caught, but I'm aware they could. They would be less likely to get tangled up in the heavier gauge. I think the nylon type would be a nightmare with their little feet entrapped in it.
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jeanne_texas
15 years ago
I plant mine about 4-6 inches away from my climbing roses..Jeanne
kentstar
15 years ago
I grew up in Little Silver, near Red Bank. Came out here with DH. I like it here though. Lots of rolling hills! Some farm land, but mostly residential homes and rolling hills. Not half as much traffic either. But, I DO miss the beach like crazy! I used to love walking the boardwalk, especially for exercise. And you have much more and better restaurants around. Most restaurants here are around Cleveland, which is about an hour away, and can stay an hour away lol.
As I said previously, you have to do with the space you have and what YOU like, and at the same time thinking ahead to what will be the easiest for you to work with in terms of pruning, feeding, pinching, watering, etc.

Where to plant clematis relative to climbing rose?

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kentstar

agardenstateof_mind
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Where to plant clematis relative to climbing rose?

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kentstar

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