Lynn...aka karmahappytoes,

You are rude and unprofessional!

And you admit it your post just above.

You have one chance, right now, to make a sincere apology for your behavior to me, Deb, and WickedHeart (great name by the way...for some reason, I just like the sound of the word "wicked"...is just sounds so...well...wicked...what else can I say...LOL!)

And then an apology to the rest of us on this Forum.

If you cannot do this simple professional task, then leave this forum and do not come back.

Wildcat

This is lengthy hopefully youÂll find it worthwhile.

This is our 2nd year growing and selling Brugs. Ever since this past April I
have been amazed at how similar some varieties are so that they are practically
indistinguishable from each other. There are so many folks and business selling
and trading that there is really NO CONTROL. I know for a fact that there have been
some that IÂve sold that were "Named Brugs" that have turned out to be not
what I believed them to be. I bought all my cuttings from a reputable source.
He is in the same boat that IÂm in, he also got his from a source that he believed
to be honest, again, NO CONTROL. I saw a posting here somewhere that someone
was cautioning someone not to trade or sell cuttings from a Brug that was patented.
NO CONTROL Â Everyone who buys or trades in this market is depending on the
other traders honesty to receive what is promised. Very often this works and
often it doesnÂt. I believe that most people  especially traders, are doing their
utmost to make sure that the correct name moves around. But, how do they
know for sure? I Âve been in this business long enough to know that there are a
few people selling all kinds of plants that will tell a prospective buyer anything
just to make a nickel. (I.e. Fuchsias are great in the sun, Daturas are perennial
as far north as Ottawa). I buy tens of thousands of rooted and unrooted patented
cuttings every year to produce my products. All of the patented plants I buy
have a tag and there is a Royalty charge  CONTROL. Even then, we occasionally
get plants that someone packaged with the wrong tags. These suppliers produce
mega millions of cuttings, mistakes happen. There is a group - RAI (Royalty
Administrators International), their mission is  CONTROL and enforcement
of royalties, also to make sure that unauthorized cuttings are not being taken.
I happen to love Brugs and enjoy them very much, IÂve got them tagged as to
what they supposedly are, if I find out they are not, they get de-tagged. I guess
what it all boils down to is if you like them  enjoy them and donÂt get hung up
on a quest for their correct name. What IÂve read here is that it is impossible and
wrong to give it a named varity tag if there is any doubt. DonÂt trade or sell by name, unless you are 100% sure of what it is. As I see it now, it is an impossibility to get the correct names on all of the Brugs moving around. Years ago someone should have enacted some type of CONTROL. But, with most Brugs not being patented there is no incentive for anyone or group to monitor their naming and movement. Now it is far too late, all we can do now is try to be correct for what we know and enjoy what we have.

Regards,

Jack

I haven't been growing brugs for that long, but I do know that for plumeria enthusiasts, named varieties are often much prefered over generic plants. Trademarked plumerias are bred for flower shape and size, clarity of color, as well as for compactness of plant growth, ease of flowering etc. The well-known named plumerias often demand a much higher price tag for this reason. It's the same with orchids too. Brugs don't seem to exhibit as much variation as these other plant groups, but I completely understand why named varieties are more valuable.

I will state this again, I have nothing to appoligize for here, as you three appear to be the ones bent out of shape and trying to run folks off. I feel you three need to appoligize to every and you need to do it to me for your rudeness and using my real name, this could be pointed out to you as harrassment also in starting this post as it appears you don't want to hear what is the facts but to put in your digs. But again a law enforcement officer made the statement to me, "if they play dirty you know they don't want to hear you state the clear facts of their errors, they just want to run folks off or try to make you look bad but in reality they are the ones that look bad, stanf your ground." Thank you for your post, it's all clear now.

I do thank those folks that have contacted me personally for help and understanding of the issues.

Not getting into the named vs no-name discussion, but Karmahappytoes, you showed everyone your real name when you provided the above link to your Brugmansia and Datura article. Too bad these posts cannot be edited.

I would imagine Spike will see this sooner or later and the whole thread will be deleted. It's a shame too because there were good points made on both sides.

I'm also not at all sure if I should be flattered that you liked my pictures of Pink Beauty, or ticked off because you think the pictures might have been altered. But since I don't really have time for this right now, I don't even care.

Karma,
(as you three appear to be the ones bent out of shape and trying to run folks off. I feel you three need to appoligize)WTF? As I stated before, I AM NOT BENT OUT OF SHAPE! And who the HE(( is trying to run folks off????
Wildcat started this thread, and you turned it all around. YOU brought up something that does not even belong in this thread.

(the term Missy is used as one would use Master in my family for a long time when you are addressing younger Females and Males.)
Honey, there are ALOT of names/terms used in my family for addressing people like you, but that would be unkind and disrespectful. And I am far more better a person than to stoop to name calling.

(Besides if Missy Deb would of asked me for a brug I would of gladly sent her one like I have many other folks that have asked but no I get crap.)
What crap????? (inserting the rolling eyes icon here)
Beleive me, if I had wanted one from you, I would have asked.

( It's okay I won't wait for her to ask as it is clearly been stated she went elsewhere to get her unnamed brug.)Now who's bent out of shape?

I do hand it to you, you know your brugs. But you do not have to shove it down people's throats.

If you want to post more snide remarks, and bad mouth me more, be my guest! You will be talking to yourself, for I refuse to comment any further on this matter.

Ok, it looks like we're now in an unsalvageable situation. I'm no kind of mediator, so I won't even try. I suspect a great deal of the problem lies in written communications that don't carry voice inflections and make it too easy for one to read things in a message in ways that may not have been intended. I could easily get away with saying things to you with a wry smile and twinkle in my eye, that would offend you if you read it here. We too easily write a post exactly the way we'd vocalize it, which may lead to misinterpretations. I often reread my messages and change the wording for these reasons.

There are a lot of bruised feelings and indignation here now. Can we let go of trying to decide "who said what" and "who meant what by what they said" and just move on?
We have a fine group of people here who have shared a wealth of information and probably traded/given some nice brugs. We'll never all have the same opinion on any one issue and all we can hope for is that in the future we'll choose or words more carefully & with respect for others with differing views.

I'm not a particularly articulate person...heaven knows others could have written this better...but hopefully no one is offended that I made a try.

Happy Brugging,

Patrick

Georgia

It was me who admired your Pink Beauty. And yes I did mention that some brug pictures are inhanced. I did not mean that your pictures were. Please except my apologies I did not mean to offend you. I am truly sorry if it might have come off that way especially since I really enjoy your pictures.
Wickedheart

Georgia_on_my_mind, I have never used my name here in any way shape or form. Yes, it's in the article for those that have read it but to post it in the means it was, sorry that still isn't called for as I do not sign in with my real name. Yes you can be taken to court for doing this.

karmahappytoes, I really believe you're in the wrong forum.
I think you should either let it go or take it somewhere else. Many people here, members of this list, myself included, are really sick of your grumpiness. Please take this somewhere else. This forum is definitely not meant for finding reasons to sue each other.

Valentina

Karma,

I never used your real name on GW, never demanded an apology from you or asked you leave this forum so can you please stop putting words in my mouth? Don't get me wrong I do think you owe the board an apology but I never asked for one, nope, not even once. Show me the post where I harrassed you or used your real name. I won't hold my breath waiting for you to apologize because I don't see you as the self-reflective type.

The veiled threats about sicking the law on posters here just makes you look really silly especially since you gave us all a link with your real name.

Please explain to me why Wildcat shouldn't express his opinion on this forum. Is it because you don't agree with him? I didn't see any personal attacks in his post. The interesting thing I think though is that instead of posting your opinion on the "named brug hupla" you came in with an inflamatory post. You said "Ya know folks can tell a professional from a novice." I didn't know who that comment was directed at but I knew you were being nasty to someone here. Oh and can you quit trying to play off the Missy stuff, it was rude and you know it. Face it, you came in started stuff and now you're crying foul. Give it a rest and quit being such a drama queen, you're not a victim.

Now If you can find a statement in my posts that offends you or you feel is rude and give me a decently thought out reason why I should apologize to you, I'll do it. What was so offensive to you in my post? Was it that I had nice things to say about Wildcat?

As far as I'm concerned this is over, stick a fork in it done. This wasn't worth my time or energy and fighting about flowers on the internet with somebody I don't know seems just plain dumb.

This used to be such a happy place. It makes me very sad to even come here.

Here, many of the people are begining growers, many looking for a few plants to get them started, and happy to find friends to support them and answer questions. I came here when I was searching for my first brug, I was here a lot with so many questions while getting started. So many where quick to answer and lend support. I now have many many brugs, and many wonderful valued brug friends. I believe I have swaped brugs and or messages with almost every poster in this thread. I have been giving free named brugs for postage to many. This is what I feel these forums are for. KHT, I am sure your knowlwedge and opinions are valued in the ABADS forum, a person who has risen to your level should have so much good valued advice to give.

This is all so crazy. People are not allowed to mention other forums in Daves. People referring to BGI members as the "others" etc. Can't we all play nice and not make something as wonderful as brugmansias such a sore subject.

If I could have afforded it, I would have gladly paid that much or more for peanut, A lot of time and money go into producing a plant like that. Delisa deserves every penny.

Feel free to use my name
Brenda

To me, it seems this thread was destined to self destruct and you all got caught up in the implosion..

farslayr

Yes indeed it was and I should have let it go. Heh, heh. BTW I love that gif.

Wickedheart

Hi farslayr! I think you hit the nail on the head. I keep coming back to this first sentence of Wildcats...

*Now I realize that I will probably get seriously flamed for this post, but that's never stopped me before...LOL!*

Tells me he intended to get stuff flying.....

Lucy

There are more than a few hot button issues on GW that tend to get people in a heated discussion in a hurry. And sure I knew this would likely be one of those issues. The way I see it, come on in and express your OPINION. Contribute to the discussion. Don't come in and just flame. This WAS a pretty interesting thread before it was hijacked. Hopefully we'll all move on, that's what I intend to do.

Hey all y'all,

How goes it?

FarSlayer, That was funny! I sure like the word 'implosion'...(I'll will have to see how I can work that in more in my vocabulary.) Thanks, you made me smile!

I was going to write a big dissertation regarding the above, but you know, it truely isn't worth my time. But I will write a little (well, more than likely it more than a little as most of you know I try to be very detail and quality orientated...but hopefully less than a lot...we'll see...hahaha.)

However, with that being said, I'd like to thanks those out there that said a few kind words about me. "Thanks!" (I'd name you each to thak you, but I do not want you to be attacked for being positive towards me.)

I always appreciate kind words and compliments. Who doesn't? I also appreciate constructive criticism too...however, I will bold the word CONSTRUCTIVE. Not everyone has learned how to do that.

Personally, I thought what I wrote was fairly professional and concise...with a little humor mixed it to keep it not so serious.

LucyGoose, I wrote that first sentence to try and keep this open and light. I was hoping what happened would not have happened...by making fun of it. (Looks like I failed miserably...back to the drawing board...that idea did not work out well...LOL!) Life is too short for me to cause trouble. Thank you for your input.

My main purpose was to help those of us growing beautiful unnamed brugs not to feel like second class citizens.

(I was going to write red-headed stepchildren...but I figured that would open another can of worms. I certainly do not want to offend any red-heads or stepchildren, or especially red-headed stepchildren out there...that is not my intent. Opps...I better say that I do not think worms are bad things, or someone will think that I am a worm-hater, or anti-worm, and have worm prejudices! And...'bad' is so relative so I must be careful when I use the word 'bad' too! LOL!)

[I am really having too much fun writing this!]

But seriously, I want people to feel good and happy with their unnamed brugs, to grow them and appreciate them. If someone wants a cutting of your unnamed, give it to them. If you want a cutting from an unnamed brug someone was, don't feel embarressed or be ashamed, ask for it.

It is not a sin to have an unnamed brug!

HALLELUIA!!!

Ahem...moving right along...

Lynn, I am sorry you do not like your name or do not like people to know your name, I will stop using it. [I hope this makes you Happy! :) ]

KHT, your insulting 1st post on this thread "Ya know folks can tell a professional from a novice." What is up with that? Where did that come from?

I will let the people on this forum make their own decision of the value, quality, knowledge, and professionalism of my post, my plants (being grown in Zone 5), and my other posts.

Nowhere in this post do I remember writing anything about "nodding" this or "nodding" that...so I am confused.

What I am not confused by is the use of the term "Missy" and "Master".

Use of either of these for anyone that is an adult is highly offensive and insulting. I am not the only one here that recognizes this fact.

KHT, if you do not realize this, or choose not to see reality...enjoy the little world you live in.

Now, since you felt the need to personally attack several people on this thread, unprovoked with no viable reason...

I feel I must defend myself and the other you maligned...

...but being the giving person I am...I will give you some insight and advice instead of attacking you.

People may decide the there may be two possible reasons for your bad attitude and nastiness:

A: You are on drugs.

or

B: You need to be.

Get some professional help. (Definitely NOT novice help!)

When a member of a community or society acts in violation of the set standards, refuses to realize it, and also refuses to correct their abberant behavior, it cannot be tolerated.

So...

KHT, I shun you!

As far as I am concerned, you do not exist anymore.

Wildcat
PS. WickedHeart, that is truely, a "wicked" good suggestion! I'll join you. And hopefully EVERYONE else will move on too.

I'm just having a good laugh here! Are you the same wildcat in IN that I sent cuttings to many years back? It does pay to keep track of the folks you send trades or out for postage, go ahead and shun me!

Wilcat, you just couldn't help yourself, could ya...

was going to write a big dissertation regarding the above, but you know, it truely isn't worth my time

some people need to get out in their gardens and out from behind a keyboard..

Hey FarSlayer,

You are absolutely correct...I couldn't help myself. It was kind of like that last big piece of chocolate cake with white sugar icing that keeps calling your name, calling your name, and you know better, but...you just eat it anyway and it tastes so good...you don't even feel the slightest bit guilty?

Well, it was kind of like that.

Actually this was the short and pleasant version...believe me...LOL!

Well, I was trying to get in practice behind the keyboard with Winter coming on...bad idea, eh?

Anyway, for some reason, your .gif's won't open for me and I am bummed, I am sure they are good!

And just for the record...no. I did not live in Indiana many years ago, 4 of my 5 brugs I started from seed over 9 years ago from a catalogue, and the 5th one, the variegated one, was a cutting a local lady gave me here two years ago.

I sure hope KHT's brug plant name record keeping is far better than her trades record keeping or one might question the accuracy of her plant inventory and wonder if names on her plants she sends out are valid or guesses.

Makes me wonder...LOL!

Wildcat

Happy toes you wrote: Delisa, there are other means as obtaining pollin and seeds from across the pond. But again one must know the source and document all of the information.

Happy Toes: There certainly is a phytocertificate for the seed I grew. My records are just fine thank you.

I will stand by my card file and I knew you would shun me, it's not in your nature. Yes I have a wildcat in IN that I sent brugs to 4 years ago in my card file.

Wow!

I knew there was a reason that I prefer species over hybrids, (and not just brugs) ;)

Mike

Then I am VERY PLEASED to say that I am not the same Wildcat.

Yes, I must respond when you purposely try to make a statement that is misleading to others for sole purpose of discrediting someone, especially when that someone is me.

I have already told you in my previous post that "no" it was not me.

I will call you out everytime you do something like this.

And yet again, you post that you will stand behind your card file.

I have only been a member here since this Spring.

Wildcat

I don't care either, but it makes it easier to trade with someone if you have named varieties. I have a lot of plants I don't know the names of. I pick them up in garden centers with no tags on them, and when people ooh and ahh and ask me what they are, I say "Just a pretty plant I found somewhere."

And I'm a certified Horticulturist! You'd think I would be Obsessive/Compulsive about names!

Serious collectors like named varieties, and that's understandable, because they trade a lot and want to make sure they are getting something they don't have. I like to know botanical names just for fun sometimes, but if I'm trading something and don't know for sure what it is, I'll say "It was traded to me as ..." and go from there. If they want to trade, fine, if not, fine too.

With the ability to post pics of plants online, most people can see what they're getting.

With brugs, now it really doesn't matter. All I'm looking for now is a double white, because I have peach, pink, yellow, shredded, and variegated cuttings are coming, so I'm happy.

Wildcat

You had to go and ruin it for me. I really thought it would be priceless if your illegitimate brugs were Karmas babies...................pedigreed pound puppy brugs. Come on now, doesn't that make you smile?

Really though, it is time TO LET IT GO.

Wickedheart

Hi All: It amazes me that you all have that much to say on the subject. I have tried for years to keep names going in my garden, but I have so much, it is just impossible. I share with whoever likes what I have at swaps and with friends, and when I trade I am truthful, just like some people suggested. I have to say though when I buy I like to see a reasonable probability that what I ordered looks like what I had expected. But then again, life is full of disappointments... Now that I have a few brugs, I would like to identify the ones that are winners. I have two aix foot beauties in hald whiskey barrels, and I think they are Charles Grimaldi, for example. When a plant is a winner, whatever it is, share it via photo, cutting, etc. Now seeds are an entirely different issue .................. Smiles, you all.

Looks like the bickering from Suggestions and Comments has come over here, along with the people who started it there. Someone emailed me and said that a certain person followed me here to try to run me off of this forum too. They have succeeded.

I'm going to Patrick's brug forum now. Goodbye.

spike for you to allow that animatition of the beating of the dead horse! SHAME!

I have to tell all of you, I enjoyed this heated duscussion. Made my day more exciting!

Have fun growing......

well heres my 2 cents,
several years ago i was caretaking a house for a university profesor. this house had several hundred books on the shelf including a hardback listing of new rose hybrid introductions for 1920. in this book i found a listing for a lovely new hybrid named [niger boy]. i about droped dead. today this would have made frontline news and surly have been retracted as well as discredited the rose society that published it. this gave me ideas, dark ideas. why not name every single seed before it even germinates and get really creative. i was growing 100 dahlia varietys at the time. lots of seed potential. so next spring there were lovely dahlias in my garden with names like DEAD PUPPY, SICK PUPPY, BARBIES FIRST ABORTION, RICHARD NIXON, PROJECTILE VOMIT, ETC, ETC. basicly i agree the named variety issue is for plant sales. it is a usefull tool but thats about all. i grow a lot of plants that i have gathered from vaious locations. i have no idea what they are called. i hate plant snobs.

Naming a new brug cultivar (or any other genus) is supposed to be about quality and uniqueness. A properly trialed and evaluated improvement over anything that already exists. A way to help keep track of bloodlines and history for all growers and hybridizers. Sadly in just a few short years it is all so messed up due to those that are commercially oriented. Dollars $$$$ and having the most names on a list somewhere is more important than the real purpose of naming. People see Registered and immediately think quality ... sure helps when you want to sell on ebay!
Hopefully given a little more time and maturity American collectors will get bored with naming everything in sight and someday they'll teach new collectors the real purpose of naming.

Wonderful thread. I see a story line for something like "Best in Show" (it's a funny cinema about dog shows and people who live to show them)
I love to see what nature can do (the whole business of development and adaptation). Names have helped me to communicate - I do take care not get hung up on names for the namesake. Other than that, I enjoy playing with my brugs and when the brugs smiles at me - I smile back.

Actually, RE:'Named anyplants hupla'-So many hybridizers of so many plants now that I can hardly imagine anyone keeping up with them all; especially glads, hostas, daylilies and now Brugs & Datura. I'm just excited & grateful when mine blooms but I'm not going to spend an inordinately high price for a plant of any variety because in a few years it'll come down in price if it stands the test of time. However, if YOU want to spend a few hundred dollars for some new variety of daylily or whatever, then God bless you and the hybridizer who holds the patent. I'm happy with ordinary or 'unnamed,' they're all amazing to me. Happy growing!

Taji,how ironic.Just a few short years ago you were selling all the brugs you could and were $$$$$$dollar oriented.

Ya know karin123, many of us learned from Taji and the ironic thing is without the knowledge being passed along none of us would of learned and continue to grow them be it for profit or to share with others. It's just what is important for the plant species to continue to educate and to not have a name for a plant in my book is bad. To sell by color tells me they are only there for the profit and don't care about their customers.

Karma, this is just a question. Not a fight question because I think that does not serve a purpose.

The question...Why do you feel the average gardener should only own or grow named plants?

Most of my friends laugh at me because I know the name of some of my plants. Notice I said some. They laugh because 1) they are only growing something because of color or height. 2) because it is pretty. They could careless if it has a name. Some after a few years tear a perfectly good plant out and go buy some other "don't know the name plant brought it because it is pretty plant."

They are not trading, selling or even giving away unless you count the garbage collectors as a give away.

I think I get your passion of people selling a plant that is not what a customer expects but if someone just wants to try a certain color flower that they may just leave in the ground to die as an annual does it matter?

In my climate it is 20 degrees and ice storms this week and will not be above feezing for weeks, probably months. I have freinds that are so busy with jobs they do not have time to dig and store and baby plants all winter. Their goal is a pretty plant be it for a few years or only one summer. Personally I would think a professional grower would not want their plants to be sold to the average gardener and be happy to hear they want to buy a no name.

When I go to their house and they show me their gardens I am not critical that they brought a old yellow daylily that they do not know the name. I think that would hurt their feelings. They are the average gardener with a sometime 15 hour a day job and all they want is a pretty garden to come home to.

Which brings me to my issue. It is way to much work to keep track of every name of every plant in my garden. It would seem like after a long day at work I am coming home to some more work of tracking, naming, worksheets. I want to come home to a pretty garden. LOL!!

Again do not take this as negative just asking the question, and explaining how my freinds garden. There has to be joy in everyones life and how they handle that joy has to make them happy. By the way Wildcat if you have cuttings of that unknown varigated Brug headed for the garbage I would like to be part of the collection.

marquest, I understand all to well how some folks garden and as you put it we professionals have some problems with this and I for one feel it's time to educate those that wish to be. I have been told coming to my place is better than any nursery as I do keep the names of the plants and can tell anyone how it should be grown. Does you local nurseries do that for you? A lot of my customers know I won't sell un-named and am very helpful in what I do for my customers as it's my name and neck on the line, I do not do this for profit but the love for nature and my plants. I have also had customers get mad at me when I won't sell them something I have not tested out for a couple years or I know they are blinded by it's beauty and it would be a waste to sell it to them as I know it won't be cared for.
One just have to love those that toss money at things and don't care to understand the proper care and love that goes into growing any plant year after year after year. Our socity is one of throw away and the environment is what suffers. I also understand pretty sells but knowledge is the key to open many doors and it's your name that will suffer if you do this professionally. So if Wildcat shares this with you I do hope you understand that this one will take special requirements to get it to product the multi blooms as it's not like the other variegated ones that have their own set of requirements. I will also add it's one of the hardest to start from cuttings and should be started under certain conditions. Hope this helps in your quest for pretty. Just hope you don't take my advice as harsh as some folks here has brought out their claws when questioned about what they are showing off. It's a shame folks won't share information or care to learn.

Thank you for your response, and no I did not take your response as harsh. I think you are saying you do not care if someone shows a plant and does not know the name but you do not want professionals to sell a plant that is improperly named.

As far as the nursery explaining what they sell. I have two that do but they sell plants hardy to the our zone. The two I frequent also guarantee if it does not survive the first winter they replace no questions asked. I tested that gauarantee and they stood by it.

As I said I am a gardener and not a professional so I do refuse to use plant markers. I hate the look of signs sticking up and it looks like a nursery. I want a pretty garden I do not want that nursery look.

"some folks here has brought out their claws when questioned about what they are showing off. It's a shame folks won't share information or care to learn."

If I post a pic....I promise if you ask me what the name is and I do not know; I will be happy to tell you I do not have a clue and I am growing it because it is pretty. I will not get upset that you asked. LOL!!! There are far more world issues to be upset about. Like the price of gas, World hunger, starving children. It sure puts the name of a plant low on the "need to know" chart for me.

Gardening is my pleasure and passion not my profession.

Thanks marquest for your reply. I hear ya on the markers but I have found not only do they save on the headaches at my age it also helps visitors or even DH when he comes in all excited that such and such is in bloom hurry and come see. I used to keep this all in my head but started to do a layout on paper just in case some day hits before I'm ready. That way what is in my head will help whomever gets to take care of them. I love the copper markers myself, they age gracefully!

karmahappy-you use the copper markers?i need some markers for the garden-but i can't decide which ones to use.i have the plastic wrap around ones for the greenhouse-but i need something that will last outside.ya got any pics of the copper ones?where do you get yours?thanks,mark

Trigger m, I have the Park Seeds' Copper Markers of which I got when they offer them cheap. I couldn't get anymore so I opted for some on E bay and they aren't as nice but they will work for the hybrids I test. You can make your own I have been told, they are really easy.

I've enjoyed this thread from the beginning. It's very interesting to hear all the differing opinions.

Personally, as a plant collector, I prefer correctly named plants. And guess what else? I collect many plants because of their name only, LOL. Call me crazy, but if I know a plant is named after a bird......it will be living in my garden no matter what it looks like.

I'm am not against un-named varieties at all, and own many. I would certainly buy a plant for it's beauty alone, and have done so on countless occasions.

But as far as Brugs in particular, I am mostly interested in purchasing named varieties unless they have a really unusual quality or characteristic.

I also think it's fine to be much more casual about your gardens and not worry so much about "who's who".

But for me, keeping an accurately named collection is very important. Whether it be for hybridization, selling, trading, sharing, or just plain ol' enjoying, I like to know what I have.

As far as the plant tags/markers in the garden, there are many options. I prefer a natural look, as to not take away from the beauty of the plants. As Karma mentioned, copper tags look great and are long-lasting. I love to use those for my trees and shrubs.
For most other plants I use smooth river rock and write the name of the plant on BOTH sides with a permanent paint pen made specifically for botanical labels. Sharpies work well too, but need touched up each season. The rock is placed at the base of the plant, and blends in beautifully.
Here is an example:

{{gwi:559961}}

Sorry, I didn't have any Brug pics with the riverrocks, lol.

I only use plastic tags in the greenhouse and feel they look a little gaudy in the garden.

~mamabirrd

mamabirrd, it is interesting to hear everybody's gardening choices. I do like your idea of the river rocks. If I was tracking I would not mind that look.

I do very little trading, no hybridization or selling. I share with my friends when they see something I have but they really do not want the name they just want the plant. LOL!!!

Maybe when I have more leisure time I will do more detailed garden tracking. The plants I have brought at a nursery I know the names without a marker but I do not have more than 20 of any particular plant. I have found that many plants the difference is so little it is not worth my garden space to have 100's of. I am not gardening on an acre. So what I plant better look different or it does not come home with me.

In 1999 I had the biggest collection in the USA. I taught myself to hybridize brugs by following instructions on a daylily website. I was one of the very first 2 people to hybridize brugs and freely share thousands of seeds right here on Garden Web (Garden Web is where the USA brug craze began in late 1997). I had the very first personal website dedicated to brug education from my own experiences. I had the very first email address that had the word brugmansia in it lol! I had the first mom and pop internet brug nursery (Harding Nursery). I was the first to sell brugs and seeds on ebay. Karin, I'm proud of my history.
There was a point when I fully understood that my attempts to own every named brug in the world was not the best decision I ever made. I was wasting time and money. Too many of the names I grew were not quality brugs. I began to understand the importance of quality over quantity. In 8 years I've never registered a brug name.
A registered brug name should mean it is properly trialed and it is a unique and a top quality plant. Karin, the point is NOT about selling brugs. It IS about naming and "registering" untrialed new seedlings. More and more of these "registered" names are dissappearing from memory because they are not withstanding the test of time. This is the point I'm trying to make. ... v

Taji,you are the one who made the derogatory remarks about
brug sellers.I just thought it was amusing that the remarks came from someone who sold brugs.I,for one,am glad there are Ebay sellers.That is where most of mine have come from and I have been lucky and have had good service from most sellers.
While I don't have your vast brug experience I have been gardening since I was old enough to hold a trowel and follow my dad around his garden.As an avid gardener I have also purchased a ton of non brug plants,off Ebay, over the years.I would put my satisfaction at about 95%.
I tried to look up Harding Nursery on the Garden Watchdog.No success.Then someone suggested I look up "Le Bon Jardinier".There you were.....interesting.

Karin,
Harding Nursery 1995-2003 - Harding Nursery ceased to exist when my husband died Nov. 2003. An excellent reputation always! We specialized in Hostas, grasses , perennials, trees, crape myrtle, spirea and shrubs hardy to our TN environment. We sold wholesale to local landscapers and retail to local gardeners. Harding Nursery did not sell any kinds of plants other than brugs on the internet. Harding Nursery itself stopped marketing Brugmansia in 2001.

LBJ was a venture I entered in late 2001 thinking it was a step up for me. I met and joined up with a source that had euro brugs! All I had to do was build the website and pass the order along from customer to supplier. Never had I been more excited about my future in the commercial brug world! I was so wrong. Instead I found myself caught in the middle of customer and supplier disputes. I removed myself from that whole scene.
I do not fault the supplier totally. They had no idea that some of the most beautiful euro brugs they were growing were weak. Angels Dream, the first euro double pink in the USA, died. Later we learned it died in europe too. Also they could not foresee environmental brug disasters and California state government intrusions. If you knew everything these guys went thru during the LBJ days it would amaze you that they survived this horrible time. They are very successful today. Interesting that very few of the EURO brugs from the LBJ days passed the test of time.
Im not worried one bit with the past LBJ issues. Im sorry it didnt work out but it certainly didnt ruin my life. Sorry to disappoint you Karin and company.lol! !:)

The entire LBJ euro brug experience only confirms the truth of my opinion that brugs need to be thouroughly trialed and tested before they are registered or marketed.

Nothing wrong with ebay karin. But there is something wrong with registering untrialed seedlings and using "registered" like it is a badge of honor and quality. In my opinion it is deception.

We do agree that brugs,or any other plant,should be thoroughly tested before being released.I'm sorry you you had such a bad experience with LBJ and the European brugs.since Euro envy seems to be the norm in the brug community that's a useful bit of information.

Thank you Karen. LBJ had a dreamy birth, a rough life, and managed to die a porn stars death! rofl! There are parts of the experience that do make me smile.:). All that matters is that my supplier friends in CA are still my very dear friends and they survived just fine in spite of it all! :)