Forgot to post a general view of the hill

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Of a few problems.

...The pH is a little high for citrus., Can you add something to the soil to lower it?

...They are infected in places with scale. Do a forum search and internet search for treating scale - they will kill citrus fast if not kept in check.This is probably THE MOST URGENT thing you need to sort out. They are little armoured bumps on the stalks and leaves.

...These trees need nutrition. Citrus feed very heavily, and need a regular dose of high nitrogen fertilizer every two weeks or so. They look to be absolutely gagging for some nutrients!

Sort out the scale infestation soon as you possibly can, and check regularly to make sure they don't come back. Remember to do your homework on them to know how to treat and prevent in future.

Hmmmm. Where did you see something that was definitely scale?

I'd recommend that you find a source of citrus dedicated fertilizer. In your location, I'd think you could find something at any big box store or garden center or farm supply outlet. It's extremely difficult to lower the pH of a native soil but you can supply the plants with their specific nutritional demands via specialty products.

As for other issues, we can't help you determine if the site is wholly unacceptable for citrus or not. The pH is far from basic at 7.5, but clay soil is not necessarily a problem unless it's blue, gray, or white, or doesn't drain reasonably well.

Hmmmm..I was going to ask the same question...Where is the scale?

Great offereings everyone!

Mike

Fifth picture down on the branch.

Citrus trees require a lot of nutrition. A two year old Citrus tree, requires 5 applications of either a 6-6-6 or 8-8-8 fertilzer per year. A 2 year old tree needs.60 pounds of actual nitrogen per tree per year. This would equate to 1-lb. of 6-6-6 fertilizer with each of the 5 applications, or .76-lbs. of 8-8-8 with each of the 5 application. Do not use a fertilizer with higher than a 8-8-8 analysis on young tree suring their first 3 years. Additionally, the tree in the first picture also looks to be deficient in magnesium.

The bumps in the 5th image are not scale. Wrong shape. Also too few.

Mostly a pH issue. Also likely a shortage of water & fertilizer. And add a nice layer of mulch.

Well I have had scale that looked identical to that little bump on that branch. I would check each tree for infestation.

Thanks everyone for the input; I'll be passing this message on to my boss who runs the garden (& the purchases!) and see if we can't get a hold of fertilizer and up the watering cycle. Mulch we definitely have to add! I'll check the tree for scale; any advice in doing this or what to look for?

Normally, citrus trees are not mulched. Young citrus do best with clear ground out to the drip line. If you insist on mulching, never ever apply mulch within 1 foot of the tree's trunk. Keeping the area near the trunk in a moist condition, greatly increases the chance of foot rot, especially for young citrus trees.

It was said "Normally, citrus trees are not mulched. "

Don't know where you live. But where I lived & gardened for 30-some years-- SoCal; Zone 10-11 -- it was a good idea to mulch.. Helps the applied irrigation last a tad longer.

Keeping mulch away from the trunk is an excellent idea for all trees.

Young citrus will do very well with ground that is clear of WEEDS and grass, but a layer of mulch will do much to improve the soil/root environment. 2 to 4 inches is all that is called for, avoiding the trunk.

I still don't see anything that resembles a scale insect on your plants, but it never hurts to keep a watchful eye open for these sneaking little things. Do a couple of google searches on 'scale insects' or 'scale insects of citrus' to see some images.

I may be seeing things, but it looks as though some of the citrus are planted in deep holes. Is this the situation?

Classical pH (high alkalinity) problem. But there may be some root damage too, as well as possible salt build up. Fert alone cannot fix this and may worsen it. High pH and temp and low Oxygen is a combo that is set up by overwatering an alkaline clay soil and results in root damage and deficiency/unavailable magnesium, iron, zinc, and manganese in this order, even if the soil is full of these. If your water has high pH it can cause this without overwatering. Salts also come from chemical fert.

1. Quick fix for now.
Apply 1 to 1-1/2 cup Epsom salts per tree. Begin out 8 inches and go out two more feet. Water in. If the water is alkaline add vinegar to pH ~6.5. You may have to add a little more than the scale shows on a pool test kit. I make this up in a plastic garbage can and use 9% pickling vinegar since it is the cheapest acetic acid I can but regular 5% works too. This is just the paramedics coming and putting in an I.V. to a trauma patient. Your trying to stabilize them.

2. Medium term. Foliar Citrus Mineral mix.
There is an iron chelate, Number 330 I use but it is 40miles away and I'll get back later with the brand. I use
1 tsp (use rubber or vinyl gloves)/ gal. R. O. water (Walmart $0.78). Also add to the gal 1 Table spoon Epsom salt,
1 tsp zinc sulfate, and 1 tsp manganese sulfate. Add a table spoon unsulfurized molases if there is no problem with black sooty mold. Spray this mix twice a month. you may need four applications. It should start working after
the second application.
You may have trouble finding the manganese sulfate in less than 50 lb bags. Try a palm tree retailer, it is used on Sagos.
If you can't find this iron chelate use copperas, iron sulfate at 1/2 tsp / gal. and watch for leaf burn which may be masked since necrotic spots are present already.

3. Long term.
Make a terrace/watering ring around each tree beyond the roots, so you can really soak each tree and then let them dry out before rewatering. This will reduce salts too, especially if vinigar is used. Acidify with 1/2 cup powdered sulfur per tree or use ironite granules. Re-apply after 5 months if sulfur disappears and the trees are not growing well. Sample soil before more applications.
Find a good aged native mulch to apply after your first fert application. No bark/cedar chip junk from Home Depot. This will reduce watering but more important it will lower root temps and build crumb soil structure if 2 in. and an organic fert are used. It will reduce your fert needs but only in the long term. It probably will provide all the minor and trace minerals you need except sulfur. Keep 8" to 1 ft away from the trunk as per above. You will need less phospherous, middle number, if you mulch. I use 6,2,4 organic with a little KNO3 added occasionly. You may have to keep doing the vinegar in water and add 1/4 tsp Epsom salt/gal, if your water is alkaline,ly until the soil pH lines out. Be sure to check pH before continuing a third application of sulfur. It is best to apply sulfur at low rates since it turns to sulfuric acid in the soil. It can kill the earthworms that are transforming that clay into soil and it can kill your trees.
Expect your leaves to become dark green and almost double in size. Growth will increase to more 5ft/ yr.
Discontinue vinegar, Epsom salts and foliar when soil lines out.

It is true what Jean001 says about mulched soil staying moist longer. However this might not relate to growing better. It is also true what Imelda said about citrus doing better when growing in vegetation free ground, this includes growing without a mulch cover. This is why commercial growers remove all vegetation under their trees. A few growers, but not many, might grow a grass type crop in the middles, but they always keep the ground under the drip line bare.

Citrus don't like or appreciate competition within the root zone, which is the spread of its branches. They do, however, just fine with mulching, especially in our xeric summers to help lighten the soil and keep moisture in/weeds down. I'd warn you they don't fruit well without regular deep soakings, letting the soil dry out a bit between waterings. Not improving the soil before planting was probably a mistake - like roses, citrus are born hungry and they feed ALL THE TIME. tantanman's advice is excellent and I sincerely hope his tips help get those trees back to health again.

It's not unusual for healthy citrus (once you get your citrus to that point!) to show some chlorosis during the winter/spring when the fruit crop is heaviest, BTW. When I see yellow leaves then I throw some liquid iron over the tree. I agree that some vinegar will probably help offset your alkaline water.

This is an in-ground Meyer, now 7 years old, from a 5-gallon container - easily over 5' high and 6' across. This shot is from Feb 2010.
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Normally when irrigation water requires a pH modification nitric or phosphoric acid are used. Using nitric or phosphoric acid does two things. 1) along with adjusting the pH it also supplies nutrition to the plant, and 2) the pH adjustment remains stable. The main problem with vinegar is that vinegar is an organic acid, and organic acids degrade very very quickly when applied to the soil.

Imelda:
My vinegar/acetic acid rec is a quick fix only. Nine% or five 5% vinegar is the safest and easiest to find acidifier and is the most economical too. It is the best choice for being hard to over do since it is a weak acid.

Long term Ironite granules are the safest for benificial fungi in the soil although most organic gardeners use sulfur because of the cost. Ironite granules are not rec for containers. It has a small % urea. Too much biuret in urea is toxic to citrus.
I am a retired chemist and do not rec using strong acids for the general home gardener. My first lab job required using many hundreds of bottles of conc. nitric and my fingers were always lemon color and skin coming off. Gloves get holes. Dilute nitric would be OK but all nitric and glycerine is going away with the terrorist threat. If you have a source for nitric I may be interested.

Sulfuric is the choice of commercial growers in Texas. It causes severe burns and eats it jeans and cotton tees.
Anyone using rust stabilizer will know that iron is immobilized by your other other strong acid rec. The trees
are heavily iron deficient now.
Everything we use on our soil is a trade off. Some bad, some not as bad.
Larry

One last but not least thing. Having gardened in alkaline clay all my life the usual villain is high calcium carbonate or bicarbonate. The most soluable salts of calcium are acetate and nitrate. IMO acetic acid flushes salts when combined with the heavy watering in cycles whithout weakening the tree from excess nitrogen. Alkaline clay in a hot climate wicks moisture to the surface. Weeds and grass increase this. The sun dries moisture and leaves mainly calcium bicarbonate behind.
This is the source of the small limey granules called caliche. Small citrus cannot tolerate weeds or grass. Mature citrus can tolerate grass.
Larry

Thanks everyone - Larry, jkom, silica, jean, rhizo, imelda- for the extensive advice. My boss is going out to the mainland this week, so if all goes well he can pick up all of the recommended additives.

rhizo, you asked if some of the plants are planted in "deep holes.." They are indeed planted in pits, about 1 ft deep, 3 ft diameter. Is this not a good idea?

I collected a list from the posts of all that's recommended to do/buy. Can you all take a look and see if it sounds good or if there are any duplicates or items left out?

Best,
H

Citrus Tree Care:

1)Lower PH
2)Check for scale
3)Add nitrogen
4)Check local stores for citrus fertilizers (organic fertilizers)
5)Magnesium
6)Increase water cycle (deep soaking)
7)Do not mulch within 1 foot base of tree (avoid mulching the trunk), but okay further out
8)Epsom Salts
9)Pickling Vinegar
10)Iron chelate: number 330/ copperas
11)Zinc Sulfate
12)Manganese Sulfate, check for in palm nursery
13)Unsulfurized molases
14)Terrace
15) Powdered sulfur/ Ironite graunules
16) Native aged mulch
17)6,2,4 organic fertilizers with a little KNO3

Also, if anyone could have an indication of where to get these products, what they're sold as and what they look like, I'd really appreciate it.

5..
Mg and Calcium, if you choose this route.....:-)..
Maybe a product like Cal-Mag or some fertilizer that provides these important nutrients that citrus crave for..Epsom salts is Mg...make sure you don't add too much, without the calcium or it becomes atangonistic..You could also add gypsom to your soil if using ES...

Why are you making the fertilizer regimand so difficult? You are bound to produce poor results if you do not apply these in the right amounts at the right times, if you do not know the physics as some here do....

Why don't you delete alot of these steps by providing a good fertilizer that provides all these nutrients in a balanced way. All the guess work has been taken away for many here. Leave that for the scientists that create these products and have tested them on specific plants.;-)

You could do away with 3,5,8,10,11,12,13,14,15,and 17 with a well balnced organic or chemical fertilizer...

As for the hole..NO GOOD I would dig that plant right out and make a raised bed with a fresh draining soil mix and replant...No plant does well in a hole like that. I have landscaped for years only to see all trees decline growing like that...

Maybe Rhizzo has a plan since she asked...We'll see..;-)

Mulch, mulch , mulch, as Rhizzo says...Just keep the mulch away from the trunk...

Mike..;-0)

Plants should be situated high and dry. ;-) That's a general rule with all plants, by the way. Citrus, with a tendency to root diseases, is one of the especially unforgiving cases. I've seen plenty of shrubs and trees planted into a hole dug out with a back hoe. Simply plunked into the bottom of the pit without measuring for the depth actually needed. The fact that you have clayish soil makes it all the more important to plant 'high and dry'.

That, alone, could be the cause for the symptoms we are seeing on your struggling trees. Would you believe that more soil-planted woody trees and shrubs die from being planted too deeply than any other human error?

I wouldn't add magnesium (epsom salts), unless a soil test recommends that your soil is low in this element. Magnesium makes itself totally available to plants in a very wide pH range, adding more than your plant needs can cause excesses. A primary problem with magnesium excess is that it throws calcium out of whack. Calcium deficiencies REALLY create havoc for plants.

Call your extension office to see who they recommend for professional soil testing these days. That would sure be a good place to start, if you haven't already done so.

I know around here that several cooperative extensions offer free soil testing. I would call around and see if you can find one that will do it. You should ask them about how/where to take the samples. You really need to take samples from several areas to get a complete accurate workup. Rhizo is absolutly right about this. I was a landscaping major in college at one time and doing soil testing is crucial. I have seen $10,000 landscapes installed by people who didn't know how important doing this testing was, and they either completly lost everything, or had to spend big bucks on correcting soil and removing plants/trees so the soil ph couold be corrected.
Andrew

Mike:

It doesnt work that way. The soil alkalinity is shutting down the rootstock. Adding an organic fert is no cure by its self here. Citrus can starve for micros when the soil is loaded with them, hence the foliar. Mulch and sulfur are so slow acting the trees may die before the soil lines out. Foliar micros with molases added will give the trees a sugar boost until the micros get assemilated and cause color to return and get the leaves working normaly making its own sugar.
The reason you have to go slow with sulfur is that it has such a strong reaction when it is converted to sulfate, it
can give a strongly acid soil and disolve the aluminum in the clay. The Al set free then becomes another toxic ingredient in the soil water.

I completely agree...PH is a definite factor..Therefore that is the reason why I use vinegar in my waterings..;-)

Without PH control in my yard, I would definitely loose most my plants..

I was merely saying that added to the steps that was on the list, was the importance of a great organic or chemical fertilizer along with PH correction..

Great info Larry!

Mike

andrew, unfortunately some states no longer provide free or very low cost soil testing services. California is one of those states. But it is still worth a phone call to the nearest county office to get some ideas of where to send some samples. Hopefully, someone on staff can help with proper instructions about how to collect the samples, too.

I found an possible alternate to the almost impossible to obtain list of micronutrients I said to use above for foliar spray when leaf chlorosis is extreme as in the photos. I found a product at Home Depot that contains Iron, Magnesium, Zinc, and Manganese for use as a foliar or soil drench. The product is Chelated Citrus Nutritional by Southern Ag. I dont know if this is available on the West Coast and it is very hard to find here. The rate is one tablespoon per gallon. Always use it as a foliar in case of extreme micronutrient deficiency as in the above photos.
I sprayed my trees with this stuff early last week. They were suffering from a medium case of winter chlorosis and are now showing some added color. At least one more application is indicated.
The metals in this product are all chelated by a sulfonated lignin and thereby may have a somewhat similar effect as sulfate salts which I have used for years, in my home brewed mix.

Since all citrus growing states are now under threat of citrus greening disease (HLB) attack it should considered good practice to keep our trees very green so any outbreak of the disease can be detected and eraticated ASAP. That is how commercial Florida growers are staying in business. Frequent inspection and spraying of the psyllids that carry this disease also figure into their programs.

Impossible to find here, and I am on the East coast!

Heck I can't even find coconut yogurt! They say it's seasonal. Please. It is all over the southern states.

Mike.

>>> . The product is Chelated Citrus Nutritional by Southern Ag. I dont know if this is available on the West Coast and it is very hard to find here

Dr. Earth products are available in lots of nurseries in central CA (and likely in southern, too). They make a similar product called Dr. Earth Micronutrients which has the same nutrients you listed above.

Although I disagree with Aesir22 about a "scale infestation", that #5 picture in question does have what *appears to be* one (or the dead shell of one) in the center of the branch. It IS the right shape and in early (i.e. small) cases they do appear by their lonesome on a branch or leaf. Had it on 4 trees purchased two years ago and it was exactly like that.

However, a fingernail "scrape" will determine if it is a scale or just a node scar -- like there are on several places of the branch.

A local hydroponics store will carry things like Dr. Earths Micronutrients or {{gwi:569143}}Earthjuice Microblast

Putting out the order this week. Would a general Citrus & Avocado Fertilizer be an OK replacement for 6,2,4 organic fertilizers with a little KNO3?
Thanks,
Hunter

I have this exact same problem with both a lemon and an orange. I just administed the "I-V" as one member said to - using both epsom salt and vinegar mixed. The question I have is do I re-administer the I-V in a week or do I follow up in a week with your medium term foliar citrus mineral mix? I am concerned that mine are too far gone and may not surive so I want to care for them as if in ICU for awhile!

Leaves have been damaged....thats so bad....

Why?
A citrus can completely defoliate and still spring back....


Josh