One more thing. I brought a diing lemon tree to work, a Gardenia dropping all it's leaves, and a couple of other sickly plants that my boss would allow me, and all are growing better..Healed.In a hot dry enviroment by day and cool by night. Can anyone explain this phenomenon?
Wish I could put all my plants in that room infront of those windows!!! I call it the magic room...Lol.
I think supplemental liting can not compare to the sun , and Citrus by luck do well under these lites for some of us. My poor trees at home!!! :-). I just checked my citrus at work, I have 5 big oranges almost ready to pic, navel, and lots of flowers on it too. My boss seems to think these trees like dry hot conditions and lots of sun all winter...Hum!! Wonder if I should stop the humid enviroment at home, and build bigger windows...?

Meyermike:

I would read up on this forum, and at http://citrus.forumup.org/forum-1-citrus.html
for container citrus info.

from my limited experience (about 2 months), artificial lighting can work great. i have a ton of plants, including 5 citrus trees infront of an 800w super spectrum grow light, in a basement room that gets essentially no natural sunlight. the citrus are doing great. all have put numerous blossoms- some more than others- between 10 blossoms and 200 blossoms depending on the plant.
so far artificial lighting has worked really well for me. in fact it has left with me a dilema what to do once spring and summer comes around- if i move the trees outside, they will get natural sunlight but it will only be about 5 hours a day whereas indoors, they get about 12 hours of artificial light.

I know you said that the plant you water twice a week is doing great but if you are also watering the plants you have under the grow lights twice a week, it could be that they are doing poorly because of excessive watering. citrus like to get dry between watering. you should buy a moisture gage for your plants and check that the soil has reached the appropriate level on the mositure gage (varies from gage to gage) before re-watering. I only water my citrus when they are indoors about once every 10-14 days. so your watering them twice a week could be problematic.

by the way- i am curious how you are succcessfuly adding humidity to your indoor room. I have a 1 gallon humidifier and all my plants (about 30) in the room have humitidy trays and i still struggle to get the humidity in the room above 30%.

HI Lycheeluva,
You are probably right. If I put my lights on for more than 5 hoours a day,plus the sun in my south facing windows together, my plants might grow better. I put the lights on for 3 hours in the am..7-10:00, then at night 3-6 after the sun has left the window. Maybe it would be as good as the ones I have in full sun all winter at work. But I could never afford the eletricty bill. What I can't understand is why my plants at work are doing so well with NO humidity whatsoever. It baffles me. Maybe more sun makes up the difference. To boot, I was told that, I keep having pest problems with my home ones because of humidity. I wonder who's right. I was told to lower it from my local greenhouse!! Weird ha. The one at work and my others there never get pest problems with NO humidity. Sounds confusing ha.
You are right though, the more light, the more the plant are going to take up water. Now that I have discovered a great soil by Al,:-), the ones at home getting less light might do a lot better with soil that stays on the drier side.:-)Starting last week..Lol
I wish we could give all our plants natural inexpensive lots of Sun then, alot of us might not have growing problems in the winter.I wish I had big windows!!

As for humidity: I have an enclosed room that faces the south with two windows.I never leave the door open to that room. I keep the heat on very low if at all, because Citrus can grow in a cool room. In fact they produce tons of flowers!! Then I bought a standing water falls, the kind you see in offices for looks and sound and run it at all times. Water must get released into the room through evaporation, because I have to fill the resevoir up a gallon of water every other day.I also mist my plants in am which can raise the level of humidity FAST! In fact, my windows fog up immediately after this. The room is always 50 or higher all winter long on my hygdrometer. That's it.Keep a fan going to to move your air ..ok

The rest of all the potted plants add the rest of humidity. NO trays or anything else are used. In fact when I was using a humidifyer last year the room was always too damp. I had to stop using that. Once I put the heat up, the humidity levels drops drasticlly. Keep the heat off if you can in that room ok, or as low as you can take it if you live in that room. I am fortunate, I keep my plants upstairs, and I have a seperate thermostat up there that I can shut off while the one downstairs heat the rest of my home..:-). Let me know how it goes. You might need a thermostat with control output on a humidifier if you can't keep the heat on low in that room. Watch out that you do not raise level too high or you get mold isssues..:-)
Happy citrus growing. I hope I helped you and thanks for your input!! :-)

couple of things meyer mike- running the grow lights r not particularly expensive- i think my 800w super spectrum light costs $25 a month to run about 12 hours a day- i dont consider that expensive. what type of light do you have? do you have a good grow light? also if you say that your trees produce tons of flowers, why do say then that they are not doing well?

with regards to my heat humidity situation- i dont have any heating on in the room, but because the room is close to my boiler room, and because it is a very small room with a big grow light in it, the tempreture gets upto 80-85 during the day when the light is on. at night without the light on, it goes down to 50-60 depending on how cold it is outside.

i need to leave the door open otherwise, the heat from the grow light will build up and it will get too hot. for the same reason, i leave the window open a couple of inches.

ive always assumed that it does the plants good to have a constant air exchange and not be stuck with same stagnant air- is that an incorrect assumption?

Hey Lychee,

I add tonnes of humidity to my house in the winter time. Too much probably. I've got an electric, not gas, clothes dryer. Since there's no co2 in the exhaust, I bought a plastic diverter for about 5 bucks that lets me pipe the exhaust from my dryer, right into the basement or flip the switch and it vents outside like normal. Adds some warm air, so it saves on heating as well as adds lots of humidity to the whole house. A bit of dust too I suppose, but nothing I've had much trouble with. If something like that would work for ya, check it out. It's great for humidity. I end up having to dry off my windows some days.

Thanks dave- i will look into that

Hi Lychee,

Sorry for the misunderstanding on the flowers.What I meant to say is that my tree at work that gets absolutly no humidity is always in full bloom along with oranges..Not the ones at my home in a humid enviroment.My trees at home have pest issues with all that humidity,even spidermites , and yet not the ones at my work in a hot dry enviroment? That is why I wonder if orange trees can do just as good without humidity? I have a friend who lives in Arizona, she called me the other day and told me their complex is surrounded by orange trees, and they are all fruited out and big and healthy. Over 20 feet tall!! We know Arizona usally carries no humidity at all. This confuses me.
As regards air exchange: I keep an overhead fan going at all times and another small fan that moves the air in my room at all times. It helps dry my pots out and avoid mold issues. I have tried to open windows before this, to let outside air in, in the winter and even spring , and as soon as you do, you let all the humidity you worked hard to make in your plant room , right out the window. I tried this once last month when we had a particulary warm spell day, and as soon as I did open the window, I watched my hydrometer reading go from 65 to 40 within minutes. If you want to keep your home or room humid, I suggest not to open your windows and instead invest in a fan that can move your air. It works great for me.
But watching my trees at my job without humidity do so well, I am begining to wonder if humidity even makes a difference any more> :-)
P.S. HOme Depot and Linen And Things has a great sale going on on humidifiers. Get acouple and this will make a HUGE difference for you.:-)
Remember, as soon as you open your windows even a crack, you stand to let all your humidity right out the door, unless you are having a humid day or a rainy one.
Hope this helps you...Happy citrus growing. You will do fine!!:-)
Mike

One more thing I did read my post again after I just wrote you. I see where you read that the trees produce tons of flowers when cool. What I meant is in general, according to citrus growers. They tell me that in Florida, when they get a cold spell, their trees produce tons of flowers..Sorry, not mine in my room. I wish. I hope I clarified this for you. My opologies. It was just a general statement not related to mine at my home.I wish!!:-)The room at my work gets cold at night, because they shut the heat off at night, and yet my trees their are loaded with flowers too!!!:-)
Mike

Hi Lycheeluva,
Just wanted you to know that is was thinking about your concern about taking your plants out from your lights at 12 hours and giving them less light as regard to the sun.
So, I went to a local greenhouse for you and told him your concern.. The owner has been raising plants for 30 years. THis is what he said.
He said that a plant in the SUN does much better than a plant under lights, even if the lights are over your plants for more hours than the SUN..DIR!! He said that plants respond well to SUN,and that we are lucky if plants respond well to lights, since they are completely NOT fooled by the difference. They respond in some ways, and even grow, but that not All plants respond well,the way others do. Even depending on what types of lights we all use. But none of them can match the SUN.That is why some of us have great results and others not so great. Each plant is different. That is why some succeed ,and others do not. But all respond well to the real thing SUN. Even if it is just 6 hours of it..:-)
He said, "Remember how my body responded to a tropical place and sun when I escaped a long winter."lol Some of us become tired and sickly and lack energy by the time winter is over. He said tropical trees feel the same way. I think he treats his plants as human...lol. But he could be right!
It makes sense, just as not all people respond well to the same diets. Plants know and feel the difference between real SUN and lights. Just as we do when we lie under sun lamps as compared too the SUN.
Hope this made you feel better in your choice to take your plants out from those lights in the spring and put them in the real thing. I wonder if you gave your trees the choice between 6 hours of SUN or more and fresh air and warmth, or artificial lights in an enclosed room, which one would do you think they would pic?..LOL
He even told me that once you take plants, especially Citrus out from the enviroment they love, they are alot of work to care for, and mostly do well if we mimick their real habitat. I guess some of us are good at that. Maybe some of us have big widows!!! Like I said I before, I wish I had them!! :-)
I suppose that is why when I start loosing a tree, and the grower at the greenhouse allows me to bring in my sic trees, within days, they all start to recover and get healthy again. I even loose the bugs..:-). Lots of air, open space, some humidity but not alot, and LOTS OF SUN....:-)The stronger the tree, the less chances any pests will bother it.
If anyone disagrees, please let us know. Thanks
Sorry long, but I love citrus talk.and have a deep desire to see everyone enjoy their hobbie!

Take care,

Mike

Hi Lycheeluva,
I hope you read this message and appreciated my time I took to to help you get some insight form my experience. Havn't heard from you. So I hope you are well and happy!!